4x4 grinding

pokefan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:11 am

Ok, I'm sure there's something wrong I just wanted to hear opinions of others.

When I shift into 4hi out on a trail and get into mud as soon as the tires start to slip i get a grinding noise coming from the front dif. and it only happens when the wheels start to slip I have no problems if everything is gripping. It doesn't do it quite as bad in 4lo but I still get the grinding every now and then.

I took it in to the dealer saturday and they said it was normal. I didn't agree but figured I'd get other opinions first. I've kept it out of 4x4 and plan on it until I get it fixed or conformation that I'm just crazy. I've only got 1200 miles left on the warranty and I'm tempted to just go into the dealer and tell them to tear apart the front dif and see if they find anything. Any suggestions?

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:14 am

Ive gotten that before. Do you have the fulltime tcase?

The noise is probably coming from your tcase, not the front diff. You need to allow the tcase plenty of time to go into 4hi. Most of the time, popping the tranny into N then back into D can help it engage.

pokefan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:24 am

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Do you have the fulltime tcase?

I'm not sure, is that the sticker on the driver's side back axle? It's an 06 sport 4x4. I bought it used so I'm not to sure.

Jeepjeepster wrote:

You need to allow the tcase plenty of time to go into 4hi. Most of the time, popping the tranny into N then back into D can help it engage.

I've noticed that coming out of 4hi and that usually what I do to get it to disengage. Don't know why I didn't think of it for engaging though. But the tranny did have plenty of time I was running in 4hi for a good 10 minutes before I even got into the mud shouldn't it had engaged by then?

gone_jeepin · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:06 pm

pokefan wrote:

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Do you have the fulltime tcase?

I'm not sure, is that the sticker on the driver's side back axle? It's an 06 sport 4x4. I bought it used so I'm not to sure

Jeepjeepster wrote:

You need to allow the tcase plenty of time to go into 4hi. Most of the time, popping the tranny into N then back into D can help it engage.

I've noticed that coming out of 4hi and that usually what I do to get it to disengage. Don't know why I didn't think of it for engaging though. But the tranny did have plenty of time I was running in 4hi for a good 10 minutes before I even got into the mud shouldn't it had engaged by then?

A fulltime Tcase means that you have the options of 4Hi, 4L0, and a 4Fulltime all wheel drive. By your reaction, i gather you don't have that option.

You shouldn't have to stick it into N and then back into D for 4hi since its shift by fly, and since it grinds everytime it slips makes it sound like its either not engaging fully everytime(which is an inconvience at the least) or something isn't right in the front diff/Tcase. but that is just my opinion.

pokefan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:22 pm

gone_jeepin wrote:

A fulltime Tcase means that you have the options of 4Hi, 4L0, and a 4Fulltime all wheel drive. By your reaction, i gather you don't have that option.

Then no, I don't. I've just got 4hi and 4lo.

Not that I don't trust the wonderful people here I know you have way more experience then I do but it seems to me that it's more than just an inconvience. It's not a sound I want to hear out on a trail somewhere, I feel like it's more of a problem.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:05 pm

Since you have the part-time tcase, its engaging since it physically shifts it into 4hi when you shift it. Im not sure why you are getting the grinding.

The full-time case works different than the parttime.

The linkage could need adjusting...

pokefan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:16 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Since you have the part-time tcase, its engaging since it physically shifts it into 4hi when you shift it. Im not sure why you are getting the grinding.

The full-time case works different than the parttime.

The linkage could need adjusting...

OK then let me screw this up more, Maybe it fixed itself maybe I'm delirious who knows :roll:

I went out during my lunch and played around a bit and and got on to a pretty steep hill and before hand I shifted into 4hi put it in N and back to D and went up VERY slowly to baby it a bit and it went up like a champ so I pushed it more and more and still no grinding. So I got on it a little harder to intentionally slip the tires and still nothing. GREAT! Just like a car to not have any problems when trying to diagnose it. So I drove around a bit back in 2wd and then tried again w/o shifting from D-N-D and went at it again still no grinding. Sometimes I really hate the way cars act! But seems like it was an iscolated incident. I just hate to not take it in to get looked at since I'm already at 35K miles. What do you think am I just crazy?

jason thompson · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:47 pm

The T-case that you have is a picky sob and if you dont get it right it will have a fit
I ALWAYS go to neutral befor a shift to 4wd
granted I mostly go from 2wd to 4lo but I NEVER have problems getting it in
I know that you CAN just go from 2wd to 4hi with it in drive but with no sincros in the T-case when take the chance?
In our KJ we have the full time case and we still go to neutral befor we go to 4wd

I know that some would make the argument that what if you start to get stuck then you can not stop or something like that
well if thats the case then that too is wrong and also you should know where you are going and be in the right gear for the job

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:14 pm

I'd go as far to say that all T-cases are probably pretty picky when it comes to how you shift them into 4-wheel drive. I had problems with my front diff disengaging with a pop and I found out later, it was how I shifted into 4-wheel. Not to be a downer, but check your manual! I had a few friends tell me to do what they have to do with their Wranglers and Cherokees, but I've found sticking to what the manual says exactly gives me solid 4x4 when I need it. Still, my front diff still disengages sometimes, but it's always when I'm on a flat hard surface, like a rock or hard dirt/gravel mix, basically anything flat with not much give. I'm pretty sure that's when I should be using full-time. I took it into the dealership and all they told me is that I should stop mudding cause when they looked at my KJ there was a huge mud-clod around my t-case lever on the underside which may have made it hard for me to engage 4x4.

Have them look at your front diff and t-case before your warranty expires. Why not?

rubigade · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:10 am

I've got one for you... KJ front diffs are like any other IFS diff. They do NOT have manual locking hubs so there is a mechanism used to replace them which makes them "automatic" locking hubs. It's an electrical servo driven little gadget that has a plunger in it that gets pushed or pulled into and out of gear. They can be problematic, especially in incliment weather. With as few miles on it as your Jeep has (although it's alot for the year) and the fact that you bought it USED, that could be the reason the original owner sold it. He/she was probably scared that bigger problems were coming. It really shouldn't be difficult or expensive but first thing I'd do (before my warranty runs out) is have the dealer replace whatever mechanism DC uses to "automate" their front IFS diff.
I found this out in cold weather with my cousin's Z71. We couldn't get it to engage because it was frozen, so because it was externally mounted (external mounted ones don't get warmed by the gear oil), I used a grill lighter to warm it up. Worked like a champ. When we got back home, we found a company that sold "heated" ones and replaced it. I think it was even Warn who made it.
At any rate, I don't have a Liberty Repair manual but I'll bet you it's not your diff or your Tcase but only the little "actuator".
Check into it and let us know.
By the way, buy the extended warranty from your local dealer. You can finance them for 18 months at 0% interest. What's $100/mo? Cheap insurance for sure!!
P.S. Not that we were looking, but we may have found THE BIGGEST selling point for the live axle activist!!

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:26 am

rubigade wrote:

I've got one for you... KJ front diffs are like any other IFS diff. They do NOT have manual locking hubs so there is a mechanism used to replace them which makes them "automatic" locking hubs. It's an electrical servo driven little gadget that has a plunger in it that gets pushed or pulled into and out of gear. They can be problematic, especially in incliment weather. With as few miles on it as your Jeep has (although it's alot for the year) and the fact that you bought it USED, that could be the reason the original owner sold it. He/she was probably scared that bigger problems were coming. It really shouldn't be difficult or expensive but first thing I'd do (before my warranty runs out) is have the dealer replace whatever mechanism DC uses to "automate" their front IFS diff.

Libertys do not have those.

rubigade · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:53 am

Wait a second! If Liberties don't have them then what mechanism engages the front diff axles?

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:45 pm

rubigade wrote:

Wait a second! If Liberties don't have them then what mechanism engages the front diff axles?

Nothing engages them, they are always turning. When you put the tcase in 4wd, torque is then sent to the front wheels.. Thats it.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:23 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

rubigade wrote:

Wait a second! If Liberties don't have them then what mechanism engages the front diff axles?

Nothing engages them, they are always turning. When you put the tcase in 4wd, torque is then sent to the front wheels.. Thats it.

Yup
I was reading that first post saying "what are you talking about"

I think he was refering to locking hubs

jason thompson · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:30 pm

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

I'd go as far to say that all T-cases are probably pretty picky when it comes to how you shift them into 4-wheel drive. I had problems with my front diff disengaging with a pop and I found out later, it was how I shifted into 4-wheel. Not to be a downer, but check your manual! I had a few friends tell me to do what they have to do with their Wranglers and Cherokees, but I've found sticking to what the manual says exactly gives me solid 4x4 when I need it. Still, my front diff still disengages sometimes, but it's always when I'm on a flat hard surface, like a rock or hard dirt/gravel mix, basically anything flat with not much give. I'm pretty sure that's when I should be using full-time. I took it into the dealership and all they told me is that I should stop mudding cause when they looked at my KJ there was a huge mud-clod around my t-case lever on the underside which may have made it hard for me to engage 4x4.

Have them look at your front diff and t-case before your warranty expires. Why not?

I am not sure how much you know about how the T-case realy works so dont take this the wrong way

The T-case and the front diff are only connected by the driveshaft NOTHING else
if your T-case jumps out then to "N" then both front and rear get no power also it can jump out of 4hi and get stuck between 2wd and 4hi and then it will gring like an SOB best thing to do if this happens is to shift to neutral on the trany shut off the engine and rock the jeep front to back while putting slight pressure on the T-case leaver shifting to 2wd once in 2wd restart and drive then try again

Folks like to quote the owner manual like it is the bible or somthing
I like to think of it more as a guide but nothing can replace experance

rubigade · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm

Ok, the "servo" I was talking about was for the transfer case engagement. The floor shifter on the Z71 I referred to earlier "seems" to go directly into the t case but in reality it does not. As far as the Liberty goes, you are right. There is nothing at the front there either. The t case is cable operated from the shift lever and based on what you can see in the exploded view, can be adjusted. Check it out.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:18 am

jason thompson wrote:

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

I'd go as far to say that all T-cases are probably pretty picky when it comes to how you shift them into 4-wheel drive. I had problems with my front diff disengaging with a pop and I found out later, it was how I shifted into 4-wheel. Not to be a downer, but check your manual! I had a few friends tell me to do what they have to do with their Wranglers and Cherokees, but I've found sticking to what the manual says exactly gives me solid 4x4 when I need it. Still, my front diff still disengages sometimes, but it's always when I'm on a flat hard surface, like a rock or hard dirt/gravel mix, basically anything flat with not much give. I'm pretty sure that's when I should be using full-time. I took it into the dealership and all they told me is that I should stop mudding cause when they looked at my KJ there was a huge mud-clod around my t-case lever on the underside which may have made it hard for me to engage 4x4.

Have them look at your front diff and t-case before your warranty expires. Why not?

I am not sure how much you know about how the T-case realy works so dont take this the wrong way

The T-case and the front diff are only connected by the driveshaft NOTHING else
if your T-case jumps out then to "N" then both front and rear get no power also it can jump out of 4hi and get stuck between 2wd and 4hi and then it will gring like an SOB best thing to do if this happens is to shift to neutral on the trany shut off the engine and rock the jeep front to back while putting slight pressure on the T-case leaver shifting to 2wd once in 2wd restart and drive then try again

Folks like to quote the owner manual like it is the bible or somthing
I like to think of it more as a guide but nothing can replace experance

What are you talking about? Reread my post! My T/C doesn't slip into Neutral, my front diff disengages. When this happens, I'm still technically in 4x4, but my front wheels aren't turning. I've never had the lever itself slip out of it's 4x4 positions. I have the Select-Trac transfer-case. I've used my manual as a guide, and my experience says these methods work just fine. I used to have problems with it fully engaging, but it was because I didn't shift into 4x4 properly (properly per the manual). My front diff will still disengage occasionally, but only on surfaces with no give and in part-time and 4-lo, and then usually I don't even need 4x4. I might still have problems with the T/C and/or the front diff, but I need to hit a real trail like Eagle Rock again to really find out, since the dealership claims everything is fine and it's rather hard to duplicate the exact malfunction.
Who are these folks that quote the manual.....? :roll:

I know you're suggesting I do, but a second reread of my post should squash that notion. Nothing does replace my experiences...are you suggesting otherwise? Once again, I know the answer to that question...
Look, we all know you have a lot of "experience" but you're trying to fix the problem I don't have. Oh, and thanks for the T/C lesson. We don't even have the same transfer case.

pokefan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:43 am

..................... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This is going NO WHERE! :roll:

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

I think you are hearing the traction control, It will dim the lights too like ABS.

pokefan · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:57 am

TDI4BY wrote:

I think you are hearing the traction control, It will dim the lights too like ABS.

It's definetly not the traction control I get that little annoying POS to come on all the time.

While some may disagree I think Jeepster hit it on the head shifting to N and back to D. I've had no problems since and everything seems to work great.

4x4 grinding

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