Hey guys, new to the forums. Just picked up an 05 Renegade about four weeks ago. Very low mileage, in great condition, relatively loaded...just a beautiful Jeep. Love it.

I posted this message in the Jeeps Unlimited forum to see what folks had to say about it, but I figured I'd throw it in here also to get some more feedback.

Well, about a week or two ago I realized I should probably check the oil in it...needed a change. Having never changed the oil myself on this car, and being in a pinch for time...I took it to Valvoline (not something I wanted to do) for a quick change. I got Synpower. As an aside, I'm relativly certain this was the first time this Jeep has had synthetic...

Now, ever since this oil change I get clatter at cold start-up. This clatter continues until the engine warms a bit. It doesn't continue once warm...the car runs like a charm...definitly not affecting the drivability at all. It was not there prior to this oil change...that, or it wasn't loud enough to get my attention because I can't remember hearing it. I've taken it to two stealers...one says they can't hear it, the other tells me he can hear it, but the noise is normal.

I've seen the valves have been listed as candidate for the issue, but I've thought that a bad valve would lead to a poor idle....something this car does not have...aside from this clatter, the Jeep runs perfectly...very smooth accelleration and idle. Correct me if I'm wrong. And again, this clatter disappears once the engine warms up.

Lifters have been mentioned to me as well.

In my mind, I keep coming back to a crap oil filter from Valvoline. Possible that the engine is starved until the oil warms and has better flow. That and the oil is draining from the filter. This issue was nonexistant until I got the oil change there.

To be honest, I'm just looking for some feedback...should I go back to the dealer?? Should I ignore it until I change my own oil next month, and check again then?? Am I being too anal?? This is just very frustrating to have to deal with something so stupid on a new car (new to me anyway). Thanks in advance.

-Nick

I can't really answer since I'm by far no engine expert. But I have a quick question that might help someone else answer. Have you checked the oil after the oil change? Is it within the normal levels for the vehicle?

I usually take mine to an oil change place to have it done and have not had this problem, but I also always check the oil after to make sure it's ok. I just don't have the place to do the change and taking the filter off is a pain.

LiLredLibby is an excellent mechanic and can probably give you good answers, not to mention all of the other people on here who know KJ tech better than the people who designed it.

BTW, enjoy your '05 Renegade, I have one as well. What color did you get?

Justin

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2005 Blue KJ Renegade
Too big to fit into most LA parking garages.

Valvoline instant oil change probably put the wrong oil in it or not enough. I wouldn't let them wash my car let alone work on it.

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02' Sport- SOLD

07' Dodge Ram Quad Cab 1500 4x4
Yeah it's got a hemi!

YEah....the oil is definitly in the acceptable range and they used 5W30 as they're supposed to. I'm looking forward to hearing what people hear have to say about it.

It's a great ride and look forward to hittin some trails in it. I got Dark Khaki Pearl.

Definitly wasn't my first choice. I usually do my own.

Off topic: I trust Valvoline exclusively as far as instant oil change places go for my winter oil changes. Never had a problem with them.

On topic: It may be a faulty or clogged oil filter causing diminished flow to the engine during cold start-up. They might have never even changed the filter, for all you know. I would replace that filter ASAP before you do serious damage to the motor, just as a cheap precautionary measure. Let the oil change place know about the problem and insure that they document it to CYA. Or better yet, let them hear it if that's posible and explain to them your situation. It could be that the oil is thinning and achieveing a better flow rate as it warms up, but damage could still be occuring. Knocking or clattering means contact in places you REALLY don't want contact! Definitely DO NOT drive it until the clattering goes away!

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2003 Renegade 4X4 5-Speed, Bright Silver *TRADED for 2013 Wrangler*
PIAA 520 Auxiliary Lights
Garmin GPSMAP 76S
DynoMax Ultra Flow SS Muffler
Amsoil Ea "Absolute Efficiency" Air Filter
Nokian Vatiiva 235/70/R16 Tires
Pixeldzn's "RENEGADE" decals
Support the 2nd Amendment - It's your right!

Wonder if the previous owner traded it in full of 20W-50 to cover up the noise and now that it is full of 5W-30 you can hear it make noise? Any idea why it was on the lot w/ low miles? Rental? How many miles does it have?

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

That was suggested also to me.

But, I have no idea why the vehicle was traded in with low miles. I looked the car over quite thoroughly. I didn't buy it from a Jeep dealer...I got it from a Honda dealer. Right now, the car has a touch over 17,000...if I had to guess, because it was at a Honda dealer, I'd say that it was traded in for fuel economy reasons, but I could be wrong. Again, the car has a boatload of warranty left and a clean Carfax...there's really no logic to trading it in for being a problem vehicle.

Definitly gonna go have the filter changed ASAP...there's a Napa nearby...probablt pick up a Wix or something.

With out hearing it my self I can not say if it is bad or not

What I do know is this
The KJ has hydrolic lifters ,wich use the engine oil to do there thing
when the oil is cold and thick they tap this is normal and not a biggie ,my TJ does it bad in the winter but I run 10 W30 syn. year round
The KJ does it every now and then but when it has done it it was very close to or just over the 3k mile mark and very cold out ,old oil, it gets 5 W30 year round
I would just try doing a full syn change with a good quality oil and filter next time around

as a side note
we have recently gone to Royal purple on the TJ with a Wix filter ,better mpg and it runs cooler + the TJ may go 9 months befor it hits 3K
so I feel better about spending the money because it sits and when it is run ,it is run HARD, trail rig

Hope this helps but if you are still not happy just bring it to a small mech shop and ask them what they think
can't hurt

Does the carfax show the previous registered owner? IIRC, I have seen it show that when it is a rental agency or dealer registration. Dealers buy lots of their cars through auctions when their inventories get low so it might not have been a trade in. Hope you can get it figured out and it is fine.

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

Carfax showed it was a private owner...it wasn't a rental, etc. I even got a report when I transfered the 7/70 warranty from a local dealer and the prior owners info was on it . It also showed any warranty issues the car had prior to purchase...it was in twice for warranty repair...both related to the rear hatch. It had it's recall service performed...ball joints and transmission cup plug. Nothing major. That's all. I guess the only way to know if it was maintained properly would be to ask, but, who's to say I'll get an honest answer.

I guess I'll slowly plug away at the possibilities and eventually go back to the dealer or a local mechanic if I'm unable to correct it. Appreciate the support, guys.

First off....Welcome to L.O.S.T. lt. drebin.Glad you like your KJ.We get alot of first time customers where I work with the same complaints,and more times than not someone has simply used the wrong weight of oil.Most manufacturers are including a recomended weight of oil ID tag somewhere in the engine bay or on the oil filler cap itself.With newer technology there is a need for lighter weights of oil for better flow and less drag on oil pumps.This is why they call some oils
"Energy Conserving" types.We had an experience of a Honda hybrid being filled with 10 W 30 and this big 1.0 liter engine wanted 0 W 20.It souded like a sewing machine at cold start,and did'nt get a lot better when warmed up.Heavy weights of oil will make an engine that has excessive wear a little quieter,but with 17,000 miles on your KJ,you need to make sure the right oil has been used.We use Valvoline products and have'nt had a problem with their filters to date.If you do a service and you still have this problem,I would recomened an engine oil flush addative(Gunk Motor Flush)following directions on product carefully.Since you still have warranty on this jeep,you may want to check with your dealer first for recomendations.

Ron

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest

That is exactly why i change my own oil. No one to blame but myself.

Anyway, yeah maybe they put a cheap filter on it that's defective. Still possible the wrong oil is in it unless you specifically saw them put 5-30 in it. The reciept may say 5-30 but who knows. Just like when you're getting gas is the 93 octane really 93 octane?

Have it changed again with a good filter and see if it helps. The way I look at it another oil change is cheaper than a motor.

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02' Sport- SOLD

07' Dodge Ram Quad Cab 1500 4x4
Yeah it's got a hemi!

Thanks.

Would you recommend I redo the oil change immediately or can I hold off for a bit?

Also, assuming there's some excessive wear, wouldn't that lead to other drivability issues. I guess my point is, wouldn't I see other symptoms of excessive wear, say in my idle, accelleration, etc. As I've said, this only occurs briefly when I first start the car and goes away after the temp rises a bit. The car runs and sounds beautiful outside this noise. At 17K miles, wouldn't this car have had to been insanely neglected? That's not the impression I'm getting...although I could be wrong.

Do these sound like solid next steps?
1)Redo oil change
2)If no improvement, consult dealer/local mech.

I would talk to some good friends,family or neighbors to see who they use for their repair shop.Usually you can tell the shop that so and so sent you and you'll get the same service.When you call or stop by their shop,you may want to recommend that they hook up a manual oil pressure gauge,do a COLD START,and verify that you do indeed have an oil pressure problem.Not knowing how shure you are of it being a possible lifter noise,it could be the sound of a relay malfunctioning or even a loud injector pulse?This test will verify if it's oil pressure related.Tell them the same things that you posted here so they will have a sense of what their looking for.Also tell them that you do have warranty left,but you would rather trust their knowledge first.If they determine that it is a dirty or weak lifter,they may want to try an engine oil flush as I mentioned earlier.You would'nt think that someone intentionaly neglected this motor,but you never know when someone may have let the oil get a little too dirty.If you feel confident that you can change your own oil,then do so and post back or PM me,and we'll go from there.I would'nt let this go too long, as if it is an oil pressure problem,it can't be good on your engine.

Ron

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest

Thanks again for the help. I will change the oil this weekend and see if that solves the problem. If it does not, I know a local mechanic that I trust where I'll take it to get his input...as you suggested, checking the oil pressure during cold start and just getting his general analysis prior to going back to the dealer. I'll let you know how it goes.

Further, I think I'll be getting a good sample of this oil for analysis this weekend. Won't hurt to know if there's truelly excessive wear.

Thanks again

-Nick

Is your's a manual or auto? 3.7L V6?

I have the same sound and at the same times...although I would say it sounds more like a marble kinda rolling up a metal pipe... until it warms up.

I have had the dealership check it. No, luck there. I have looked for oil issues like low levels, metal scraps, early signs of darkness... still nothing unordinary.

It doesn't sound really bad but it bugs me everytime I hear it in the mornings.

I believe it may have started after I used a K&N drop-in air filter. I left that one in for about 1000 miles and took it out feeling it was providing too much air for the system to process through standard exits.

Anyway, I'll watch this and I will report on my next oil change. I may take it to the dealership for the oil change and have them start it after it sits all night.

Chris

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2005 Black Renegade 4x4
-- Looking for some ups! --
28D, Tow Pkg, Fully Skidded, Yummy Leather, Mopar Bug Shield, WeatherFlectors, 5x 255/70R16 Bridgestone Dueler Revo, Husky lined, and a brand new eTool. 2005 EVIC Install Write-Up Coming Soon! Currently (6/07) @ 16,400 miles! (3/07-14,100 miles)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2175805

[quote="Littlehorn"]

I believe it may have started after I used a K&N drop-in air filter. I left that one in for about 1000 miles and took it out feeling it was providing too much air for the system to process through standard exits.



Chris[/quote]

dont forget you need to reset your computer after each of those changes and go through the 50 restarts it takes for the computer to relearn before you can compare.

and now back to oil clatter, none here to report, using the last mobil one i will ever buy, 10w30, amsoil only from now on.

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Admin note:
This account has been deactivated.

jcphoto20... I did the battery/computer resets and the 50 (or so) startup/drive cycles. No good. I didn't like the feel with the K&N...it felt like it was chewing my engine.

Chris

_________________
2005 Black Renegade 4x4
-- Looking for some ups! --
28D, Tow Pkg, Fully Skidded, Yummy Leather, Mopar Bug Shield, WeatherFlectors, 5x 255/70R16 Bridgestone Dueler Revo, Husky lined, and a brand new eTool. 2005 EVIC Install Write-Up Coming Soon! Currently (6/07) @ 16,400 miles! (3/07-14,100 miles)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2175805

The chatter that you are describing sounds like the lifters(as stated before) before they get pumped up with oil,perfectly normal on cold starts(mine has done it since it had 3 miles on it,have over 51,000 now and no problems),not normal on hot starts.One cause of extended chatter could be a bad drainback flap in your oil filter(our filters have a flap to keep the filter full of oil for faster oil pressure on start ups).Sludge in the engine can cause it to by blocking oil pasages and/or drainback holes(starving the engine of oil).Doing a engine flush is a good idea,I do it my self every time I get my tranny flushed(15,000 miles).Every single car/truck/suv I have ever owned(minus 2 that had solid roller lifters) have had the same noise and many have had well over 200,000 miles and keeped on going.Just use a quility oil filter(Amsoil,wix,pureoilator,or napa gold) and the correct oil weight and you should be fine,and also a good air filter.My lifter chatter actually decreased when I got rid of my oiled air filter and switched to a dry synthetic filter,less dirt entering the engine so a good air filter can help to.