Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2007 8:13 pm

Sweet! Keep us updated!

durangotang · **Posted:** Mon May 07, 2007 11:37 pm

This is an awesome thread guys!!!

Here's a tidbit on the tranny temperature issues. In a former life (rally wrench) I used to have problems with both engine and tranny heat in some of longer races in cars, particularly with automatics. We rigged up and installed H20 misters in front of the radiator and tranny cooler. They are very simple and cheap to set up. All you need is a resevoir for some water and install the washer fluid system from another vehicle (you may even be able to take the resevoir). Then mount the washer jets in front of the cooler and flip a switch for an instant decrease in temps of about 30-40 degrees (no joke).

Couple notes:
Most of the washer jets spray a stream rather than mist... you would need to find a way to make them mist...a friend of mine I worked with rigged up the end nozzle from a windex bottle so he could adjust the spray pattern, it was hilarious but worked great.

If you really want it to be cool check the voltage levels on a tranny temp gauge (can we get these?) then wire in a relay to start the system at a set temp for 15 seconds or so.

I don't know if this helps anyone but it could help those with more time than money... seeya

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

retmil46 wrote:

Well, apparently some of us have been buying Suncoast's new TC already.

When my local tranny guru called this past week to inquire about getting one, Ron was already out of stock! Ranger1 had checked a few weeks back, and Ron had stated that he was getting the parts to build some for stock, but he's sold out already.

Ranger1 and myself will be getting this done to ours in the near future, both of us at the local tranny shop I use. Ranger1 should be getting his done this week, mine in a couple of weeks after a trip to TX.

Both of us are opting to forego the heavy duty clutch packs - we're going with the Suncoast TC, the new pump, and the Transgo shift kit. All told plus labor we're looking at roughly $1800.

Opps, that would be me. I was going to buy the ATS one, but after hearing that the redesigned pump is much improved-- I decided to save some cash and go with the Suncoast. Plus the ATS requiring a billet shaft got me a tad bit worried. Anyway, it arrived today and is sitting in my living room. Hopefully, I will get it installed next week, after I get the lift and A-arms on it.

hatchetman · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2007 7:17 am

Is Suncoast supplying the improved trans pump? :evil:

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2007 11:31 am

hatchetman wrote:

Is Suncoast supplying the improved trans pump? :evil:

From what I've gathered, talking with my tranny guy and Ranger1, you still have to deal with Mopar/DC to get the new tranny pump and associated cover plate. I believe the full retail price quoted for both was around $270.

Talking with my local guru, who's rebuilt quite a few 45 and 545RFE trannys, along with other electronically controlled brands, unless you have reason to suspect they've been damaged at some point the stock clutch packs should do just fine for normal use. He went as far as to say that if you put too "grabby" of a clutch pack in an electronically controlled tranny, he has seen it happen where the next gear tried to engage before the previous gear was fully disengaged, locking up the tranny with disastrous results. :shock:

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2007 12:25 pm

Is there a P/N for the new pump and cover plate?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2007 4:25 pm

Stan Wright wrote:

Is there a P/N for the new pump and cover plate?

Dang, was just over at the tranny shop, and didn't think to ask about the P/N.

They did have the Suncoast TC in though, and got a look at it. Gawdalmighty, you could stick that thing in the drivetrain of a battleship and it probably wouldn't break a sweat! We're talking beefy, sucker must weigh a good 30 lbs at least. Back side is a solid piece of billet steel with the attachment holes drilled and tapped into the back, no tack welded tabs on this monster.

Looks to me like Suncoast did a good job, and that TC is going to be worth every penny of it's price.

For that matter, whoever the person was that loaned their CRD to Suncoast for use in building and testing this TC, we owe them at the least a steak dinner with all the trimmings.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue May 08, 2007 4:47 pm

Stan Wright wrote:

Is there a P/N for the new pump and cover plate?

I was one of the first to have the redesigned pump and plate cover in August of 2006. The part number that showed on my RO was 68009879AB.
A picture of it is in several threads on this forum, one is on CRD TSB's.
I can repost the picture if need be.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 8:59 pm

It sounds like the Suncoast improves the driveability quite a bit. What about around-town fuel economy? My biggest complaint with the CRD drivetrain is that it gets 27mpg on the highway, and 19mpg as soon as you fall out of lockup...

- Chris

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 10:48 pm

DZL_LOU wrote:

Stan Wright wrote:

Is there a P/N for the new pump and cover plate?

I was one of the first to have the redesigned pump and plate cover in August of 2006. The part number that showed on my RO was 68009879AB.
A picture of it is in several threads on this forum, one is on CRD TSB's.
I can repost the picture if need be.

I think this would be a good place to repost that info.

danoid · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2007 11:54 pm

F37 recall – why: The 545RFE trans and torque converter are ‘good’ for more than the CRD’s output torque – the Hemi puts out quite a bit more. The torque converters are failing because of the torsional vibration damper. Quite simply, the Hemi puts out it’s torque in eight explosions, while the CRD puts out slightly less torque in four more violent explosions. When the torque converter is locked, engine torque is driven through a damper just like in a manual transmission clutch. This is what is getting beaten up and failing.

The cooler is on the repair list only because it’s impossible to clean them from the inside once debris is floating around in the trans oil.

Stall speed: this is a complicated subject. Physically (on the outside) the Hemi and CRD have the same torque converter. On the inside the CRD has a slightly higher k-factor (looser). That said, you can’t put a Hemi t/c into a CRD and expect the same stall speed as a Hemi. All CRD’s have the same k-factor / stall speed torque converter. Also, Hemi’s will detect your foot on the brake and reduce engine torque.

A torque converter’s output torque at stall is a function of input rpm only. I’ll say that again. A torque converter’s output torque at stall is a function of input rpm only. If you stand on the brake pedal and rev the engine to 1000 rpm, a V6, V8, V10 or diesel all have to make the same amount of torque to spin the converter input. The same goes for 1500 rpm, 2000, etc. The stall speed is where the engine doesn’t have enough torque to make more rpm on that converter.

Two different engines with different torque output curves will have different stall speeds on the same converter. With a turbo, things get even more complicated, the torque converter must be loose enough to get past turbo lag (and the CRD has plenty of that if you’ve ever pulled a big trailer), and tight enough not to flare (engine rpms fly all over the place) if you goose the pedal at low speeds. The torque converter for the CRD was probably picked for decent vehicle launch to hide turbo lag.

Also, a tight converter will burn more fuel at a stop light. Here’s why, the engine has to idle. Remember, a torque converter’s output torque at stall is a function of input rpm only. A tighter torque converter requires more torque to maintain that input rpm, hence burns more fuel when the vehicle is stopped in drive (at a stop light).

The Cummins torque converter will not fit into a 545RFE.

The 48RE probably would not be a good solution for the CRD. The torque converter is significantly tighter to cope with the Cummins and vehicle launch from a stop would be horrible. What might be really good would be the 68RFE that’s in the 2007 ½ Cummins. It’s based on the 545RFE, has the tighter torque converter for city cruising, but has a real steep 1st gear so the turbo lag might be not a problem. Also it’s already beefy enough to handle the Cummins, especially the torque converter damper.

Any aftermarket solution will have to also address the damper. Of course, making the damper stiffer and stronger will usually mean it transmits more vibration into the rest of the driveline, so it's all a tradeoff.

Just my 2 cents

newlydisappointed · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 8:47 am

The dealer instruction letter shown on alldatadiy.com shows part number CECAF371 and states it includes :
1 pump, transmission oil
1 cover, transmission front
1 filter, transmission pan sump
1 filter, transmission coller return
2 "O" ring, A/C line
1 integral A/C condenser/transmission oil cooler

If it is the torsional vibration damper wrecking our TC's then DC(f37) addressed this with the reduction in torque. If the damper is upgraded and transfers more vibration to the next driveline component then what would be the next failure we could expect??
Is the DC fix the only way we can get some reliability from the 2.8's?

Does anyone know what the mpg change would be with the f37? or
is there any compiled stats on mpg before and after?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Just returned from the tranny shop, where Ranger1 got the Suncoast TC, new pump, and Transgo shift kit installed. We took it out for a short test drive afterwards. Even with having the F37 software installed, the way the vehicle performed after this mod, only one thing I can say -

GIT-R-DONE!!!!!!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Just made it back home from getting the SunCoast TC installed. Also had a new style tranny pump and a transgo shiftkit put in as well. I can't say enough good things about Bruce Bastedo who owns Advanced Transmission Care in Mooreville, N.C. A true craftsman, who knows transmissions and mods like no one I've ever met before, runs a very, very, clean modern shop and has very skilled professional people working for him.

I'll post some pictures of the new tc, pump and so on later. I will be brief and say I wish I could have done this mod when the jeep was new. It's that much better.

A big thanks to Ron of SunCoast for building a great product - it makes the stock chrysler tc feel like a piece of crap. What a difference!!

First impressions - the new tc engages much smoother and at lower rpm (around 1500 rpm) but also across the rpm range, it still pulls strongly, where the stock TC left you revving with a spongey rubber band limp feel. Also, my CRD when running low rpm under load has always had a strong engine vibration come through the tranny tunnel and the driver side colum, even to the point of a rattle. It was that way with the factory TC and it was still that way on the 2nd Chrysler TC. Not anymore! It's quiet and extremely smooth now, much smoother. No vibration at any rpm, no more lugging at stoplights.

With the SunCoast TC, that's gone. Nothing but smooth power at any rpm, any load. This TC makes the powertrain feel right. It just feels connected to an engine now at any rpm. The shifts are crisper, much better than stock. No harshness, no lugging at stoplights, just better shifting and power delivery all around. I can't imagine how much better it might be without the F37 programming on the pcm/tcm. When Retmil46 gets his done, we'll know. He is fortunate enough to not have the power detune and higher shift points done to his CRD.

Also, while driving home on the Interstate today, my EVIC showed 41.6 mpg at 60 mph after a 15 mile stretch of driving. Never been that high before at 60 mph on my CRD. The true test will be by measurement after a tank or two, but even with an additional 10 miles of stop and go, heavy 5:00 pm traffic, the mileage for the entire trip was 30 mpg. I've driven that same route many times and never averaged better than 26. My impression is that the new TC locks up sooner, stays locked up longer and accelerates much better than factory equipment. It seems to make a tremendous difference on the highway in terms of fuel economy.

To say I'm very pleased would be an understatement.

newlydisappointed · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 7:11 pm

Sounds great - nice job developing the mod. Any concerns about the vibration damper or earlier lock up creating more stress on the drive line?

How much did the shop charge to install the pump, shift kit, and TC?

Ripster · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 8:51 pm

This truly is amazing, now I will have to travel to North Carolina, can't wait to see a long trip on the freeway to see what
you guys get for mileage. 700 miles today, best was 28 at 70 and 25 at 75 on I-90 and I-35 south.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Very good. I should get mine back Friday. I had a the local shop do it that has done everything for me for years. If I got the same results, I will be thrilled.

milou_1968 · **Posted:** Thu May 10, 2007 10:52 pm

Great post , I want to do the modification as soon as possible

bbertram · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:17 pm **Posts:** 144

darn, this sounds great. There maybe hope yet for our jeeps, when my girl dies she will be getting this done.

crdmike · **Joined:** Tue May 16, 2006 7:25 pm **Posts:** 138

Great news Mitchell and Ranger1

Aftermarket CRD TC/Tranny/TCM Info

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