ESP Review; The Good, Bad and Ugly

Alak · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:55 am

I decided to start this thread on the discussion of the electronic ESP system and Differentials. I know there are others around, but I wanted to focus on these two subjects in a review fashion. I'll let the powers at be pick me apart to tiny peices then run me over with their rigs.

Tonight I got to do some real wheelin at work. We have a pile of old concrete blocks (without any metal) and a huge mud hole thanks to the flash flood. What I knew about ESP was it was a traction control system. What I didnt know was it was accually a whole network of systems.

To start, I did some research and found that in 2006, they dropped the rear trac lock in favour of the ESP system. The ESP system, uses the ABS speed sensors and activates the brakes in an LSD fashion. Sorta like the parking brake trick. The wheel that slips gets the brake to make the wheel that grips get traction.

During a rock crawling excersize, the ESP was somewhat handy in getting some traction to the wheel trying to get traction to climb. It hums and makes its ABS sound (those that have it know it). With the ESP in partial off mode, you can't turn it off remember, it works almost as well. ESP takes over if wheel speeds get excessive.

During a steep decent awhile back, I was at an akward angle and could almost feel the Jeep rolling. The ESP did its thing, even in partial off mode. The result was the ABS releasing the brakes and adjusting the other wheel brakes so that (I assume) in the event of a slam on brakes, it wouldn't cause momentum to push it over. This is good because it helps you not roll. This is bad because I had to stop NOW and when your foots planted and your watching your front drivers wheel roll still, it gets you exicted in a hurry.

Now we get to the potentially fun part, the MUD. In partial off mode, the mud is just like any other 4x4, or so I thought. After getting into some fairly deicent crap, I did what I was told to do. Fling the mud out of the treads. After applying deicent pressure on the gas, the flinging ensued. Being an Automatic, it automatically picks up more speed, upshifting. As I start to move after a very short time, the ESP comes on and slows down the wheels. The ESP senses the tires moving X speed and the G sensors for the Roll Migration and Stabaility control sense Y speed. Now, since this is not tarmac, the wheels stop almost dead. So you feel movement begin, then come to an aburpt end. Perhaps my wheels were turning too fast? Yes, that was the case. After putting the transmission in 1, and gradually applying gas, I began to move again. As RPM increase, no sign of ESP. I try 2nd, nope. By 2nd gear, I was moving at a quite sufficent rate to clear any mud obsticles. With ESP on, forget it. Your going nowhere. Your tires dont even really turn at all. It just goes hum hum hum, RPM's stay restricted and you stay parked.

The other thing I wanted to point out was sideways movement. With ESP on, your going straight where your wheels are pointed. Not even a fish-tail, or burnout. With it off, this is where it gets strange. In one run in the mud, I was able to execute a fabulous low speed power slide/Drift. Trying the same manouvere again at the same speed, the ESP took over and deny'd me. A few more trys yeilded similar results. 2 Successful runs here, 1 or 2 bad ones there. That shows to me that the system is not as accurate as once thought. Perhaps it is the amount of throttle applied? 4-HI or 2-HI? Only further investigation will tell.

Now we move on to Differentials. Specifically the Back. Since the introduction of ESP in 2006, Jeep dropped the LSD rear end. Is the ESP that good that it doesnt require an LSD? This driver doesnt think so. Does the ESP replace the duties of an LSD? Maybe if you were driving on street made of piles of small rocks.

Or perhaps the LSD is not capatable with the ESP system. I cannot say because I am, at the mercy of Jeep, open Diff'd. What about the new Jeep Wranglers? They have full lockers! Further research found the ESP system can be completely turned off, instead of in a partial mode. That sucks for me(us).

I'd like to end this on a quesiton note.

Is there a way to fully dis-engage the ESP system?

And

In the wisdom of Jeep, will LSD and locker differentials interfere with the ESP partial system, or full on system in a damaging way?

-----

I hope you enjoyed. Its 2 in the morning here and Im about to hit the sack. I hope my vision was good enough to catch spelling, and my brain good enough to catch all my ideas in a literate way. Thank you all.

REKIII · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:09 am

That is a much mor comprehensive report than what I did.

Mine just came off as whiney.

I have an 06 as well and experienced the same things you did in the mud except mine was in the snow. I have not yet tried climbing.

Here is a link I was given:

http://www.noesp.com/

I have yet to try this, I will first have to find the same things in the jeep that they talk about in the charger.

Here is one that looks more feasable and DIY:

http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/sho ... no+esp+mod

Again, I will have to find the stuff in the jeep that matches the charger.

I didn't know about the lack of LSD in our 06's but I'll chalk it up right next to the lack of and ESP completely off button as a huge mistake.

Bob

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:31 am

I think you are meaning to say TC-Traction Control. It is the TC that is helping you OFF ROAD. When you are in 4LO with ESP off, your Traction Control is what is working for you. Trust me, it is better than the previous factory Trak Loc (LSD). The real trick is to add a Detroit TruTrac LSD (DTT) is the rear with TC.

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:24 am

Some will not approve, but for off road, you can remove the ABS fuse (number 38 if I remember correctly) in conjunction with the ESP button and it is off. But, so is your ABS if you are dependant on it.

Try it next time you're in that mud hole.

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:35 pm

Alak

So in the mud scenario...were you in 4wd HI or LO? And how fast were your tires spinning before they stopped and started over again?

Alak · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:42 pm

I was in 4-HI and was in about 3rd gear (4 speed auto) when it kicked in. I think it was more of a safety thing than anything. The more I think about it, the better it was at the time. Imagine if I got instant traction. I'd be picking my Driveshaft out of the next companies yard.

One thing I noticed about the KJ that kinda seemed a little.......well, they shoulda put it in. My dad's Range Rover has an alarm that comes on when your going too fast in 4-LO. Like a Ding Ding Ding. On rare occasion in the past, I've forgotten that Im in 4-LO in the KJ and hit the road. After about 5 seconds of wondering where my power went and asking myself what the whine was, I realized I was in 4-LO still. Just a little something I thought of. I wonder if I could make one? I've yet to look if the speedometer is electronic or not.

I'll try the ABS fuse. See what that does.

Which leads me to another thing. Underbraking, the roads here are a little ruff. The ABS activates with every little bump. So when I come to a stop light, it goes crazy with a few bumps before the stop at any speed.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

For the mud and sand, the owners manual states that you should push the ESP button to turn off the throttle reduction for the reasons mentioned in Alak's post-- to allow more wheel movement.

As for the downhill situation, putting the vehicle in 4-low will help. Putting it in 4-low will:

1. Change the ABS mapping (4hi might do this too, I don't remember).

2. Remove the throttle control, same as pushing the ESP button.

3. Change the anti-roll/skid vehicle control to allow for extreme angles without turning on the rollover nanny.

4. Shutoff the airbags.

I assume that 1-3 is so you don't get into the dangerous situations where you brake and the anti-roll logic decides to let you slide off a cliff. I assume that the airbags shutting off are so that if you do go off the cliff-- you'll die for sure and won't be alive to sue Jeep for ESP malfunctions :lol:

(What I heard is that it is so you don't get pinned in the car upside down,and it does not block your view when deploying at low speeds where it does nothing usefull, etc.)

ESP Review; The Good, Bad and Ugly

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