Lift pump seems to work

Serendipity · **Joined:** Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:51 pm **Posts:** 45

A couple of weeks ago I resurrected this project and reinstalled the lift pump that I had tried before. This time I wired in a relay to control the pump and made the wiring at least semi permanent. I also checked with a handheld vacuum pump and gauge to verify that this lift pump wouldn't create a serious restriction if it fails electrically. At this point I have driven a couple of hundred miles with it in place and have had no problems or unusual behavior. The pump is pushing through a Wix 33123 that is plumbed in ahead of the OEM filter. Not trying to be a tease, but I still don't know the specifics about this pump. Sorry.

Larry R. · **Joined:** Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:35 am **Posts:** 92

Did this help with the shudder problem at 50 - 60 mph? Also, did it effect you milage?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat May 26, 2007 7:20 am

Larry R. wrote:

Did this help with the shudder problem at 50 - 60 mph? Also, did it effect you milage?

And are you seeing any signs of leaks in the oem plumbing that was originally under a vacuum that's now under slight pressure :?:

Inquiring minds want to know

Serendipity · **Joined:** Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:51 pm **Posts:** 45

Larry R. wrote:

Did this help with the shudder problem at 50 - 60 mph? Also, did it effect you milage?

The shudder has been a rare occurence on my CRD. It has never happened when the air has been recently bled out of the fuel filter. As for mileage, it is too early to know.

Joe Romas wrote:

And are you seeing any signs of leaks in the oem plumbing that was originally under a vacuum that's now under slight pressure :?:

Inquiring minds want to know

So far, I don't see any leaks, but I would expect them to be small. I lean more toward the entrained air theory or perhaps a leak at the joint back at the tank. I have experienced the leak at the heater socket and it wasn't hard to find once I started looking. I have vacuum tested my filter setup at 20'' of vacuum and couldn't find any leaks.

MightyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:06 am

Serendipity -

Curious as to the status of your lift-pump experiment after a couple of months - is it still installed & working? Any adverse effects? Let us know!

techTim · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:24 am

I second that. :!:

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:26 am

BVCRD wrote:

Why not just find the leak, and stop it up. Can only be coming from a small handfull of places.

Air leaks in the fuel system are inevitable. Hot fuel outgassing "air" is inevitable. Bubble are innevitable. Here's the problem that DCX doesn't seem to see:

Air bubbles will collect UPWARD. On the CRD, all "UP" leads you to back to the fuel filter, so any leak or bubble formation ANYWHERE on the lines before or after the filter still collects air in the filter HEAD in one big "bubble". This is particularly bad with a heating element that sits up there where the bubble will always be, leading to overheating of the element. Over heating leads to parts warping which leads to worse airleaks.

Air accumulation will even happen when the engine is OFF and there is no "suction" from the pumps, because the weight of the fuel in the lines before and after the filter will be "pulling" away from the filter, creating a small but unfortuneate negative pressure in the filter area...encouraging air leaks in the most likely area.

VW puts the filter below the pump, which also might be a bad idea because then air would accumulate in the pump (which we have discussed as a "bad thing".

A visable, high placed air trap (after the fuel filter) would be a simple add-on and a cheap, easy fix IMHO. A lift pump would not be an easy fix and would not, IMHO, "push" out this accumulated air bubble back out the leaks unless the leak was on top of the filter head. Instead, this bubble will go thorugh the engine at WOT...weee what fun. A lift pump would, however, slow the accumulation of air by reducing the time that the lines were under more serious negative pressue. But a lift pump would not stop the innevitable accumulation of air in the filter head.

You can't stop gas bubbles in the fuel lines. But you can trap them.

Serendipity · **Joined:** Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:51 pm **Posts:** 45

The lift pump has been working fine. I'm very happy with it. It has been in place ever since my last post. 2 or 3k miles at least. Over time I did find a slow leak in some of my plumbing for my add on primary fuel filter. My only complaint or concern is that the solenoid type pump does seem to run hot and pass some of that heat to the fuel. My fuel heater is unplugged BTW. If it weren't for the cost, I would install one of the Kennedy centrifugal type pumps and probably mount it closer to the tank. The current pump is in the engine bay.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Just ordered a Kennedy lift pump, Ranger1 already has his on the way. We're both looking at the same location - underneath just forward of the fuel tank, tapping into the quick-connect located there. 3/8", and you can easily get replacement parts at any auto parts store.

Also, in the crossmember on the underside of the body, to which the fuel tank straps are bolted to, on the drivers side there's an unused threaded bolt hole already in place that would make an easy protected location for installing a mounting bracket.

Last straw was yesterday when my priming pump wouldn't work. Apparently it had sucked up some crap out of the fuel tank and jammed the check valve inside it. I had to put a hose on the vent valve and literally suck fuel up into the filter. Had to do this 3 times, working the primer pump after each attempt, until the check valve and the pump started working again. Took hours to get the taste of ULSD out of my mouth. :evil:

I can at least tell you now what ULSD tastes like, and it sure ain't chicken!!!

OTOH, I can now say that I managed to suck-start a diesel. :shock:

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:17 pm

Let us know how it works out. The only problem with the Kennedy is that it is not considered self priming if I remember correctly. Well, that and the $$$.

Serendipity · **Joined:** Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:51 pm **Posts:** 45

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

... But a lift pump would not stop the innevitable accumulation of air in the filter head.

I would probably agree if I hadn't tried it. :wink:

So far I have not had any air accumulation in the filter head since installing the lift pump.

MightyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:37 pm

Hmmm - I look forward to hearing results from more users as well!

I have RARELY experienced the surging/bucking condition, but my CRD rarely sees 3000rpm .... I drive pretty laid-back. Still, I would like to avoid any pump cavitation or air bubbles that might shorten the life of the pump, especially with the parts replacement cost / issues. I want to make sure that the rest of the Jeep does as well as the engine does ...

I wonder if we all got together if we could replace the engineering/design team at DCX? Excuse me, Chrysler Corporation now ... :roll:

Honestly, I think a few individuals here COULD replace the engineering team there - now if we can find a way around the *(#$ bean-counters, we'd be set!

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:23 pm

Serendipity wrote:

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

... But a lift pump would not stop the innevitable accumulation of air in the filter head.

I would probably agree if I hadn't tried it. :wink:

So far I have not had any air accumulation in the filter head since installing the lift pump.

What I hope (as I am definitely PRO lift pumps for a variety of reasons), is that minor accumulated air just gets blown through. Anyone with a larger leak should also be able to find the leak easier with a possitive pressure in the lines suirting the fuel out.

I also think un-plugging the fuel heater in the filter assembly is a smart move until the inevitable filter assembly recall....

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:42 pm

MightyCRD wrote:

I wonder if we all got together if we could replace the engineering/design team at DCX? Excuse me, Chrysler Corporation now ... :roll:

Honestly, I think a few individuals here COULD replace the engineering team there - now if we can find a way around the *(#$ bean-counters, we'd be set!

That may be already be underway. Seems that Cerebus is rehiring a lot of the old hands, at least in the design dept, that made Chrysler profitable back before the DCX merger.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:25 pm

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

Serendipity wrote:

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

...
I also think un-plugging the fuel heater in the filter assembly is a smart move until the inevitable filter assembly recall....

Perhaps but if there is no recall and your head fails to fail you might be out in the cold. If there are not enough failures there may never be a recall and if we unplug we help hide the problem.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:59 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

Serendipity wrote:

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

...
I also think un-plugging the fuel heater in the filter assembly is a smart move until the inevitable filter assembly recall....

Perhaps but if there is no recall and your head fails to fail you might be out in the cold. If there are not enough failures there may never be a recall and if we unplug we help hide the problem.

Good point. If it were only me driving the Jeep, I woudn't mind driving it 'till issues pop up. But it is mostly a mommy-mobile...so I gotta make it reliable. Wish I got to drive it more....

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:09 pm

My Kennedy lift pump should be here next Monday. Looks as if all the quick-connect parts and other plumbing fittings are readily available at the local auto parts and hardware stores. There's also fuse tap electrical adapters readily available, for powering the beast. Most involved part is probably going to be fabbing up a bracket to mount the beast.

My hope is, with the way the plumbing is arranged, that by mounting it down by the fuel tank, once everything is reprimed after initial install, the pump will always have fluid available and the fact it isn't self-priming won't matter one whit.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:42 pm

My hope is, with the way the plumbing is arranged, that by mounting it down by the fuel tank, once everything is reprimed after initial install, the pump will always have fluid available and the fact it isn't self-priming won't matter one whit.[/quote]

The Stock suction pump should prime it for you.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:26 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

My hope is, with the way the plumbing is arranged, that by mounting it down by the fuel tank, once everything is reprimed after initial install, the pump will always have fluid available and the fact it isn't self-priming won't matter one whit.

The Stock suction pump should prime it for you.[/quote]

True, but it would be nice if after a filter changeout, instead of having to flutz with the hand priming pump, to simply flip the key on and just crack the vent valve, let the electric pump do all the work.

Also, if the lift pump can maintain prime if installed in that location, it would also open up the option of using a filter assembly without a hand priming pump. Over in the TDI world, where they're already blessed with lift pumps, some have already tried installing a Stanadyne filter assembly without a hand primer. Granted the Stanadyne may be constructed differently than the Racor, but the TDI crowd has found that it significantly decreased flow restriction thru the filter assembly if you deleted the hand primer.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:35 pm

retmil46,

Did you discuss the CRD application with Kennedy at all? Just wondering what their thoughts were on using their left pump with the CRD version of the CP3 pump?

Lift pump seems to work

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