Engine clatter has returned

lt. drebin · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:39 pm

Every time I cold start my KJ in the morning, I get this engine clatter for about 5-10 seconds.

Well...way back in May, after 3 trips to the dealer, the dealership decided that they could hear the noise that I had been complaining about. They replaced the tensioners on the secondary timing chains and sure enough, the noise disappeared for about 2 weeks or so. Over the past several weeks, it has gotten worse....to the point where it's just as loud as before BUT the duration is much less....5-10 seconds vs. 1 minute+. So, I believe progress has been made with the tensioners being replaced. Does anyone have any suggestions...along the lines of the above repair...of where else the dealer should be looking. What more does anyone think they should pursue somewhere along these lines. My thought was the oil pump, perhaps...since these tensioners are hydraulic, they require oil pressure...maybe the the pump isn't functioning properly so the tensioners don't get oil as quickly as they should. I don't where the hell else to look.

I've had the Jeep into the dealer 2 times since they claimed repair and I keep basically getting shooed away. Chrysler keeps sending me back to them. This is very frustrating.

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:39 pm

Maybe someone could chime in with actual figures, but oil pressure should come up to a certain point within a certain time period. Im sure it wouldnt be hard to test.

My ford contour does this all the time..its sort of "normal" for the car. It only lasts a second or two though. 10 seconds would be an eternity with that clatter!

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:59 pm

Known Problems with the 3.7L:

Valve Springs tend to break...must remove valve covers to inspect

Engine Sludge...must remove valve covers to inspect

Wrist Pins...The wrist pins on the piston rods get sloppy...if the above two things don't help then this could be the culprit...you can pull the oil pan and remove and replace piston/ring/rod assembly

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:21 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Wrist Pins...The wrist pins on the piston rods get sloppy...if the above two things don't help then this could be the culprit...you can pull the oil pan and remove and replace piston/ring/rod assembly

My goodness I don't think I could afford this one!

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:19 pm

Where are you getting those facts from Darby? Im just alittle curious..

myjeepwalks · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:39 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Where are you getting those facts from Darby? Im just alittle curious..

Was wondering the same thing

With a broken valve spring you'd most likely have a misfire along with the noise.

Never heard of engine sludge causing engine noise unless maybe the oil was never changed for 50k miles.

Wrist pins go bad but not that often and not very likely the cause of the OP's noise. You can't replace pistons, rods, and rings just by removing the oil pan alone. The crank would be in the way. You need to pull the heads to get them out.

the1jferg · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:45 pm

You said: "I don't where the hell else to look."

The cheapest part, of course. :wink:

Drebin,

Buy a better oil filter and it will stop. Its that little flappy thingy in the cheapos thats causing a pressure block (kinda like a vapor lock) and its taking too long to get the oil up top. The bottom of the line FRAM, others, and dealer crap are not reliable.

Also, if you ain't running full synthetic...you need to add 4 quarts regular and one qt syn of the same brand and weight.

I've seen this problem 657,922 times in my life and fixed them almost every time.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:56 pm

lt. drebin wrote:

Every time I cold start my KJ in the morning, I get this engine clatter for about 5-10 seconds.

Well...way back in May, after 3 trips to the dealer, the dealership decided that they could hear the noise that I had been complaining about. They replaced the tensioners on the secondary timing chains and sure enough, the noise disappeared for about 2 weeks or so. Over the past several weeks, it has gotten worse....to the point where it's just as loud as before BUT the duration is much less....5-10 seconds vs. 1 minute+. So, I believe progress has been made with the tensioners being replaced. Does anyone have any suggestions...along the lines of the above repair...of where else the dealer should be looking. What more does anyone think they should pursue somewhere along these lines. My thought was the oil pump, perhaps...since these tensioners are hydraulic, they require oil pressure...maybe the the pump isn't functioning properly so the tensioners don't get oil as quickly as they should. I don't where the hell else to look.

I've had the Jeep into the dealer 2 times since they claimed repair and I keep basically getting shooed away. Chrysler keeps sending me back to them. This is very frustrating.

Do you use penzoil? or has the KJ had penzoil in it for mulitiple oil changes? If so that could be part of your problem,they don't call it the "mechanics worst nightmare" for nothing(might as well just put candles in your oil pan,they are cheaper then penz but the same thing,wax based).The oil pressure should be a min of 4psi(hot) at idle and somewhere between 25-80 psi at 3000rpm.You may have a bad oil pump like you think,good thing is they are external mounted so the oil pan does not need to be removed.You should have them do a oil pressure test,kinda odd though the oil pressure light should come on if the pressure is to low.What wieght of oil do you use? Anything over the recommended 5w-30 will cause extended cold chatter at start up till the oil pump can pump the hydraulics in the engine,A bad oil filter could be at fault to,our oil filter have a rubber seal to keep the filter full of oil so the oil pressure builds faster when started.If that flap is bad then some of the oil will drain out and will take longer to build oil pressure.

the1jferg · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Pariffin ain't a concern anymore unless its 69 cent "noname" oil.

Oh yeah, any of you older folks ever wonder why "New" motor oil is darker now than it used to be when we were pups?

:lol:

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:11 pm

Where is the pump located tjkj? I didnt know it was on the outside.

And yes ferg, Ive wondered that..

the1jferg · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:13 pm

I can't post the reason because "They" would make me vanish.

It has something to do with the fact that engines are lasting longer now than they did back in the day with Leaded gas and "OIL" in the crankcase.

Remember when 100K miles was a stroke of luck, not the norm?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:34 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Where is the pump located tjkj? I didnt know it was on the outside.

And yes ferg, Ive wondered that..

Okay I was just a little off,just looked it up,I knew the oil pump was not in the pan like they normally are.To remove it you need to remove the water pump,timing chain cover,it is directly driven by the crankshaft and actually mounts on the crankshaft just behind the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover.

lt. drebin · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:29 am

the1jferg wrote:

You said: "I don't where the hell else to look."

The cheapest part, of course. :wink:

Drebin,

Buy a better oil filter and it will stop. Its that little flappy thingy in the cheapos thats causing a pressure block (kinda like a vapor lock) and its taking too long to get the oil up top. The bottom of the line FRAM, others, and dealer crap are not reliable.

Also, if you ain't running full synthetic...you need to add 4 quarts regular and one qt syn of the same brand and weight.

I've seen this problem 657,922 times in my life and fixed them almost every time.

OK, I'm using Purolator PureOne...I always thought they were great oil filters, no? Also, I'm using a synthetic blend...Penzoil Truck/SUV. I'm not certain, since I'm not the original owner, but I beleive this is the first time Penzoil was used. My next oil change I'm using full synthetic...probably Mobil 1 all around - filter and oil.

lt. drebin · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:39 am

Well, it's in the dealer again. I can tell the engine mechanic is noticably frustrated, but I have to live with it, not him...

I went so far as to go in this morning and cold start it with them...it clattered like usual. So, they're looking into it again. I'll be sure to update when I get an answer.

You know, with regard to the oil/filter brand, type discussion...my friend has taken his KJ to any old quick lube place every 3,000 miles since he's owned it. He's never had this type of issue and he's about to turn 90,000 on his 2004. I'm very hesitant to outright blame oil/filter for this clatter.

k99jk99j · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:24 am

i have heard lots of kj's with the cold engine clatter. and it has been discussed on this forum many times. my 06 has had it since 1000 miles. i now have 15,000 miles on it. just got back my lab results from blackstone labs and all was normal. they said and i quote "the engine is wearing just fine!" i am going to ask the dealer to look into it when i get the ball joints done, but i am not overly worried. my cold engine clatter sounds like a small diesel for around a minute and then goes away. i have always attributed it to piston slap because the noise is identical to my 99 xj with a 4.0L which has been with out a doubt found to be piston slap. Class action for 91-95. but still there on some 96-01 slightly. the two vehicles cold engine clatter are identical! here is the link below for the 4.0L piston slap. mike

http://www.romingerlegal.com/illinois/i ... 994079.htm

if it is piston slap it in no way decreases the life of the engine.

the1jferg · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:24 am

OK, thats what the problem is though LT

k99jk99j · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:36 am

ok here is another take from the jeep forum. the posts on the second page "rob92xj" (or similiar screen name) is by a jeep dealership tech and he said hears the noise all the time and said it is the heat sheilds on the exhast manifolds.

just a different perspective! mike

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthre ... iston+slap

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:44 am

My info is from personal experience. The 3.7L engine develops sludge when used for short trips mostly. Just some suggestions...

the1jferg · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:51 pm

I guess I'm assuming one knows what his valves sound like versus something else, Oh well :lol:

Darby could be right on your KJ my friend. Especially if you ain't using the amsoil air filter or paper. The rest let sludge building stuff in. Cheap oil will do it with short trips because the condensation is there. Not changing the oil frequent enough will sludge it too.

Its your oil filter though, if its your valves chattering then going away after the oil gets up top.

Or sludge, oil pump, pluged ducts, or vapor locked from cheap oil filter
Oil filter

Heck, it might not ever go away

Until, you flush the motor, run syn blend or synthetic, and get a better oil filter.

Thats why engine wear occurs mostly at startup. You gotta get the oil up top.

If he ain't listening to his troops...He probably is an LT :cry:

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:31 pm

lt. drebin wrote:

You know, with regard to the oil/filter brand, type discussion...my friend has taken his KJ to any old quick lube place every 3,000 miles since he's owned it. He's never had this type of issue and he's about to turn 90,000 on his 2004. I'm very hesitant to outright blame oil/filter for this clatter.

It would be really easy to check though, might as well eliminate the possibility. Run some motor flush through it, change the oil, use a napa gold filter. And see what happens?

Engine clatter has returned

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