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 Post subject: Redesigned Monitor Lizard Front bumper
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:23 pm 
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The ultimate teaser of all teasers, because I don't have any pictures, just a little explanation. I'm not going to start drawing it up and prototyping for a few weeks until I get all of my current rear bumpers and slider orders finished, but once they are done, things will go pretty good on the front bumper redesign.

Most everyone has seen the original prototypes. I just wasn't happy with how it was going on the design, because it was all one piece, with the mounts all incorporated into the bumper. The main design of the bumper shell itself won't change a whole lot, except I think I am going to keep the stock signal lights incorporated into the bumper, instead of the trailer lights. The bumper will also no longer have the front receiver. The bumper shell itself will bolt to a mount subassembly, so their will be a little more tolerance for adjustment. I don't have exact numbers for the 05+ bumpers, but they will be really close to the 02-04, which the front of the bumper is only about 4.5" from the front of the grill.

The biggest change to the bumper, is it is a convertible winch bumper. Yep, a winch bumper that only sticks out 4.5" from the grill. The winch will sit on top of the bumper. So, here are two of the questions that I will probably get the most, and they tie in together.

1. Why is it called a convertible winch bumper?
2. Won't the winch on top block the airflow to the radiator?

Without a winch, the bumper will look like the old prototype in most aspects, except without the front receiver hitch and with stock lights. The front receiver was deleted because it is a big target, as I have found from Ted's trail testing, and the front winch multimount setup really hurt approach angle, difficult to put it in if you are nose down in an obstacle, and front multimount has a lot of leverage that caused stress with any angle pulls. A winch on top of the bumper does block airflow, but offers the best approach angle and doesn't have the leverage of a multimount. So, to give the bumper the best low profile design with the best approach angle, that doesn't block airflow, with the versitility of being able to add or remove a winch like a multimount, I have come up with the convertible winch bumper.

The bumper mount subassembly will have two verticle receivers instead of one horizontal front load receiver. Don't need the winch, leave the bumper as it is with the winch setup in the cargo or the garage. On the trail, need the winch, grab it out of the cargo, drop it straight down into the upright receivers, lock it in with two standard 5/8" hitch pins, plug in the wires just like any multimount, your ready to rock and roll. Getting off the trail, don't need the winch anymore, unplug the wires, pull the two pins, pull straight up, throw the winch in the back. Don't care about airflow and want to keep the winch on the bumper, but worry about theft? Use locking hitch pins, and the bolts for the winch are blocked so no one can get a wrench or socket on them.

Just want a cool aftermarket bumper with recovery points, better approach angle over stock or the other winch bumpers, but don't ever plan on buying a winch, save money by not getting the convertible winch mount. Change your mind later and need the mount, call me up and get it.

Just for comparison, the 02-04 ARB is 9" from the center of the grill to the face of the bumper. My bumper is less than 5" (closer to 4.5"). So you get all the benefits of a winch and non winch bumper combined, without the negatives. The bumper shell is 1/8" plate to save on weight. The mounting subassembly is 1/4" plate and tubing, with 14 attachment points using 12MM bolts (same size you use for the rear hitch). The winch mount is 1/4" plate with 2x2x1/4" tubes that slide into the upright receivers, with a fairlead mount formed into the mounting plate.

I have yet to figure out the new pricing. They won't be cheap, but the good news for the 05-07 guys is their bumpers won't cost $200 more than the 02-04's like the ARB, and the good news for the 02-04 guys is it will be available for them unlike the TJM.

Are you dying for pictures now? So am I.:D Like I said, in a few weeks when I get caught up with slider and rear bumper orders, I will have a break between the next (last batch of the year) rear bumpers to get to work on this thing.

Stay tuned. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:39 pm 
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That sounds very cool, can't wait to see it.

Off to buy lottery tickets now... ;-)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:28 pm 
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You've painted a very nice picture of a versatile front bumper, with what sounds like the perfect setup. Kind of looks after all your needs & solves some of the other bumpers problems. I'm looking forward to seeing the real deal :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 pm 
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Nice.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:59 pm 
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That is definitely a good sounding setup

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:36 am 
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Love it and can't wait to see it in production!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:46 am 
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Sounds great but....I wanted your bumper for the front receiver :cry: . DARN!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:17 am 
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Cowcatcher wrote:
Sounds great but....I wanted your bumper for the front receiver :cry: . DARN!


Sounds to me like, if it's strong enough to hold a winch in the vert receivers, it'd be strong enough to hold a hitch in them. Maybe options? Sounds like a really versatile design you got going.

BTW, let me know when my sliders are done, I'll probably just drive down and pick them up.

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 Post subject: New Bumper Design??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:29 am 
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Howdy Rock Lizzard,
I'm a NEWBY to L.O.S.T. , but after a couple 3 weeks of surfing this website and may I say admireing your handy work I humbly ask after seeing that you have the knowledge and the tools to create beautiful metal work. Instead of the rudimentory squarie boxy bumpers of the past. Please I don't imply any disrespect. Your work is inspirational. I haven't the work space or tools to do what I purpose but, Look at the Smitty work design. Everyone seems to be doing the box style bumper, but after seeing your work you appear to have the tools craftsmanship and knowledge to lean towards the Smity built theme of 2" t0 4" Tubes mandell bent to shape and welded together. The reason I purpose this is I've yet to see anyone approach this idea. After all the KJ is a more rounded JEEP compared to to the other more square designes. this also leaves ample space for whinches, Lights and other asseccories. As I have stated the KJ's design leans toward a more rounded facia design and from what I have seen of your work you could do with your own signiture and flair. If I'm out of line I beg your forgiveness I've seen you handy work and you are an ARTI'ST.
Have a great day and if I can be of service just ask. :idea:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:14 am 
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Sounds pretty awesome!

Question #1- Do those of us who already purchased/ordered the front bumper get it with all the convertable winch stuff?

#2- When can we expect to get these? I am an anxious, antsy in my pantsy dude! :shock:

Much thanks Marty....I love your steel. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:20 am 
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Marty,

Make sure you let the Patriots WAIT for stuff as long as Libertys had to...lol. Do our stuff first!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:30 am 
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I echo Darby's comments.

There are a hell of a lot more Libby's out there. I am sure you do a ton of biz with cj's tj's and others but stay true to your base Libby clients! PLEASE!

What about the airbags? May i assume that since they are a common thing now and all the attourneys out there make us keep them, that your new bumper will be compliant, or is that a stupid question?

Rush345 brings up a valid point. Have you given any thought into softening the edges of the bumper? I know that flat plate steel is much cheeper and easier to work with thus reduced production costs... so not necessarily a smittybuilt tube deal, but maybe rounding the edges a little?

What about Aux lighting mounts? any room for them. more the merrier.

What about available finishes? Black Powder coat? paint?

I know this is putting the cart before the horse. But i am saving for a front bumper for an 07. I hope to see this before i make the commitment to buy. I LOVE the idea of the covertable. means i can get my bumper and then a lift to support the weight cuz i wont have the added winch weight.

I love the stock lights idea. could keep production costs down. too bad for those who are getting a new bumper because of a mall parking lot bender. Careful you don't tread on ARB's idea too much. They might send Mick Dundee after ya from down under.

I Love the possibilty of more after market prodcuts for the Libby.

KEEP IT UP!!!! and please hurry

P.S. I have 2 KJ's and prelifted '02 and a new '07. Any discount on bulk purchases? I like the idea of needing only one winch for the 2 vehichles. Great Idea.

A thought just came to me. Will a bumper for other vehicles have an interchangeable winch mount? meaning that if you get one for a KJ and then need one for a (God forbid) Hummer or Land cruiser, will the winch mount work on all? Could be a great selling point. I will make you a deal on that idea. Two front bumpers and it's all yours.

Keep up the good work.

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Last edited by WoodysKJ on Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:33 am 
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Any plans to make a front tow point to slide in those receivers? I could see lots of options for this....lightweight snowplow mount, front hitch, a hoist for lifting things, mount for fence post driver, front rack for farm work....just imagine all the stuff they used to attach to the fronts of old military jeeps. Might need those 500Lb CRD springs though!!

Excellent Idea marty I will look forward to seeing it as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:49 am 
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WoodysKJ wrote:
What about the airbags? May i assume that since they are a common thing now and all the attourneys out there make us keep them, that your new bumper will be compliant, or is that a stupid question?


The airbag sensors are completely independent of the bumper so they will still operate in the same manner...the only difference is you dont have what little shock absorption the stock bumper cover provides till you hit something solid... basically none.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:50 am 
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Just a thought for those that had a two route plan. Not to be a downer on this because I am all for Marty's plan but, it will make it hard to use a hitch mount winch for the rear. You would have to carry the standard hitch mount carrier with you and then unbolt Marty's system and bolt on the carrier to use the rear.

Just my thinking just before going to work.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:39 am 
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Do you have any pictures?? :lol: :lol:
kidding

Can't wait to see it! Hopefully I'll be in for one

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:08 am 
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Neatus wrote:
Sounds pretty awesome!

Question #1- Do those of us who already purchased/ordered the front bumper get it with all the convertable winch stuff?


I second that. I've been waiting for an update this sounds better. But we'll have to wait and see pics...I'm sure we'll won't be let down.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:24 am 
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I am not concerned about the function of the air bags. Fact is there are at least 3 sensors located around the car that at least 2 of them need to be triggered to allow the airbags to fire, and only above 35 mph, or at least that was the first generation ones.

What I am concerned about is the "Compliance" issue in that just as ARB's are "Compliant." If one is in a collision wether or not they work properly, I don't want my insurance to say Hey that after markert bumper is not airbag compliant so we are denying coverage.

ARB's can say that with their testing and thus the insurance company's have a harder time denying coverage.

I want as tough of a bumper as I can get.

I have a friend who is an automotive engineer and builds special market heavy equipment. He and I were about to start desiging a bumper for my KJ. When he saw the airbags on my car he realized that his insurance would not cover him and that my insurance would have cause to deny my coverage if i was ever in an accident and the bumper on the KJ was not "Compliant.".

Not an issue of safety or function just the Freakin Attorneys.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:31 am 
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Put me down as someone else who liked the front receiver hitch. Being able to move the winch to the rear of your KJ or trailer to pull out backwards or to pull logs etc was a bonus. Also being able to hitch a trailer to the front for launching a boat or snakin it around the corner of the house is invaluable.

It sounds like an adapter will be needed to convert the new mounting system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:01 pm 
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You are such a tease Marty. Nothing? Not even a drunk drawing on a napkin? Shesh. :wink:

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