Diesel fuel prices

hawk521 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:55 am

I've owned a diesel vehicle for about 20 years now. And over all that time (until 2005 at least) diesel was ALWAYS just a tad cheaper than regular gasoline.

Since I bought my '05 CRD there have been very few times that diesel was even cheaper than premium gasoline. And I cannot remember it being cheaper than regular gas in the past couple of years.

What changed this? I don't buy the ULSD argument, as it turned out the sulphur being removed is more valuable as a by-product than the cost to remove it. Besides, I'm seeing the same high prices for diesel that is not yet ULSD rated.

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:51 pm

Yea im seeing between 3.20 up to 3.35 over here in the south west. when I was in So. Cal last week getting my lift done at ALL J's diesel was like 3.87 :shock:

so what gives diesel gurus ?????

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:58 pm

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:30 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

and fuel taxes

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:42 pm

For about as long as I can remember diesel has been more expensive than gasoline here in colorado.

texas was another story.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

And to some degree they would be correct. However the unspoken part of the story is how the refining process is being geared to produce more gasoline than diesel right now due to pressure from DC to keep gas prices as low as possible. Since fewer people drive diesel, it produces less of an outcry when those prices go up. Of course everyone is paying for it, its just in the cost of their food and consumer goods instead of at the pump...

curtis · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:15 pm

Reflex wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

And to some degree they would be correct. However the unspoken part of the story is how the refining process is being geared to produce more gasoline than diesel right now due to pressure from DC to keep gas prices as low as possible. Since fewer people drive diesel, it produces less of an outcry when those prices go up. Of course everyone is paying for it, its just in the cost of their food and consumer goods instead of at the pump...

There are more diesel's out there being used than people relize. Lets not forget all the trucking companies, Trains, And aircraft, Yes Jet fuel is a form of diesel. Here in the middle of PA. We have thousands od Semi's Pass through on Route 81 and the PA turn pike.

I belive fuel prices are up because they can get away with it. Supply and demand.

dgeist · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:44 pm

Reflex wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

And to some degree they would be correct. However the unspoken part of the story is how the refining process is being geared to produce more gasoline than diesel right now due to pressure from DC to keep gas prices as low as possible. Since fewer people drive diesel, it produces less of an outcry when those prices go up. Of course everyone is paying for it, its just in the cost of their food and consumer goods instead of at the pump...

As explained by a ChemE buddy of mine, the different fuels all come from the same refining process at different points. Depending on how the process is tweaked, you might get a little more of one, a little less of the other (per unit crude). After katrina, many of the refineries in the gulf region were re-built to favor gasoline more than they had previously.

Dan

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

dgeist wrote:

Reflex wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

And to some degree they would be correct. However the unspoken part of the story is how the refining process is being geared to produce more gasoline than diesel right now due to pressure from DC to keep gas prices as low as possible. Since fewer people drive diesel, it produces less of an outcry when those prices go up. Of course everyone is paying for it, its just in the cost of their food and consumer goods instead of at the pump...

As explained by a ChemE buddy of mine, the different fuels all come from the same refining process at different points. Depending on how the process is tweaked, you might get a little more of one, a little less of the other (per unit crude). After katrina, many of the refineries in the gulf region were re-built to favor gasoline more than they had previously.

Dan

Thats how I understand it as well. There is major diesel capacity coming online but not for a while unfortunatly.

AZScout · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:19 pm

Just to echo the discussion, my girlfriends dad pulls oil out of the ground and he stated the same; everything they are pulling out they are turning into gas to keep up with demand, or the manipulation thereof.

dgeist · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:38 pm

So, to help the problem, we should support the Southeast poultry industry so the subsidiay industries can make the waste into bio.

Eet mor chikin!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:15 pm

As far as the price of crude itself, I've heard more than one analyst say recently that the current high prices per barrel have nothing to do with supply or demand fundamentals or potential disruption to supply - nothing more than the traders on Wall Street on a profit binge. Goldman Sachs is saying that once the bubble bursts, they expect crude to come back down to $80/barrel by early next year.

As far as gas/diesel prices - next year may see some temporary relief - it's a presidential election year. :roll:

You can bet they'll try their best to keep fuel prices down for at least a couple months before the election.

Maybe it's finally time to start making some friends at the local fast food places, get a couple empty 55 gallon drums, and considering making that '87 run on part veggie.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:01 pm

curtis wrote:

Reflex wrote:

Cowcatcher wrote:

The industry will say things like "heating oil demand", "crude prices", "refining capacity", "foreign competition".

And to some degree they would be correct. However the unspoken part of the story is how the refining process is being geared to produce more gasoline than diesel right now due to pressure from DC to keep gas prices as low as possible. Since fewer people drive diesel, it produces less of an outcry when those prices go up. Of course everyone is paying for it, its just in the cost of their food and consumer goods instead of at the pump...

There are more diesel's out there being used than people relize. Lets not forget all the trucking companies, Trains, And aircraft, Yes Jet fuel is a form of diesel. Here in the middle of PA. We have thousands od Semi's Pass through on Route 81 and the PA turn pike.

I believe fuel prices are up because they can get away with it. Supply and demand.

Amen to that last sentence. $3.19 in St Louis area. $2.87 for RUG

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:35 pm

If the market really was 'hurting' from high fuel prices I believe there truly would be a much larger push for alternative fuels. Until the US market really suffers from these high prices they will continue to climb. Although I'm not the conspiracy theorist against big oil companies, I believe that's all it is, is pure want for the profits, and if they can get it now, all power to'em, however, I think in the long run it will bit them. Just my .02

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

RTStabler51 wrote:

If the market really was 'hurting' from high fuel prices I believe there truly would be a much larger push for alternative fuels. Until the US market really suffers from these high prices they will continue to climb. Although I'm not the conspiracy theorist against big oil companies, I believe that's all it is, is pure want for the profits, and if they can get it now, all power to'em, however, I think in the long run it will bit them. Just my .02

The problem with this is that there really is not an alternative at this point that is feasible on a large scale. Until cellulose ethanol or algae based biodiesel become a reality, or some massive breakthrough in batteries(combined with a massive expansion of power generation) happens, there simply is not an alternative, like it or not.

Edit: Just some quick searches generated a general consensus estimate that the average profit an oil corporation makes is about 9 cents per gallon of gasoline sold. I will see if I can find a more thorough breakdown though. The counter argument to that is that the oil industry recieves massive subsidies, which are ridiculous IMO.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:50 pm

I always find it a bit funny when people will pay more than we pay per gallon of diesel for so many other things.

Some Bottle Water...at $1.29 per 16 ounces=$10.37/gallon
Coke in 16 ounce bottles...at even .79 per bottle=$6.32/gallon
Monster "Energy" Drinks...at $2.29 per 16 ounces=$18.32/gallon

A gallon of milk, OJ, ect. are "at least" as much as Diesel.

We, in the US, have had it pretty good when it comes to fuel prices compared prices across the globe. I have started HyperMiling" and have improved mileage by 18% so far. I am involved in the www.gassavers.org forum and just started a challenge for something I call "HyperTanking". Instead, but in conjunction with hypermiling, we are having a friendly contest on "How Long" you can go on one tank of fuel...instead of just "How Far". It starts Wednesday and I will get my B U T T kicked by the vehicles over there, but it is the principle of the matter that counts. No wasted trips, combined trips, hypermiling, public transportation, people powered (bikes, ect) and carpooling are the ways to stretch out our tanks. Honestly some guys over there are getting 70+ miles per gallon on some vehicles.

My prediction is for my CRD to go 15 days and hopefully cover ~ 550 city miles...not much highway for me. Some there will go more than 1,000 miles on 15 or less gallons and last maybe 45 days :shock:

Wish me luck...I am going to push for 580 miles on 21.5 gallons plus the filler neck :wink:

I wish a couple of ya' would give it a try for a L.O.S.T. Group Competition. :wink:

KJ79 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:58 pm

Darby, man you're always idling when I see you postings! Stop all that idling, you'll save fuel, real hypermiling, LOL
Out of curiosity at how many rpm does that thing idle?

So much for todays useless comments...

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:05 am

Not Idling...Shutting Down and Coasting...LOL

Good think about the CRD...the brakes work with the engine off (not affected by vacuum loss like gassers)...the steering is heavy but doable on gentle curves. You do have to turn the key back to the first position to keep the odometer working.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:13 am

In one way, it makes me want to laugh, and in another sense, makes me want to cry. Most of the "common sense" suggestions you mention from the Hypermiling group were part of the standard curricula in the 9th grade driver's ed class I took 35 years ago!

It tells me they no longer teach people how to drive, but simply how to pass their drivers license exam.

I've always used many of the techniques you've mentioned from the Hypermiling group as long as I've been driving. Guess that comes from learning how to drive in the midst of the first oil embargo back in '73.

Believe it or not, I think that an Inmotion Stage II tune would really help with your city fuel mileage quest. I've noticed that the Inmotion tune noticeably expands use of deceleration fuel shutoff when you're coasting - the engine goes dead quiet and scangauge shows 0.0 gph - I've coasted as much as 1/4 mile downhill at 45 mph like this. Even with the A/C on, it just barely gives it enough fuel, like 0.2 gph, to keep all the auxiliaries powered while you're coasting.

Tires - other than keeping them pumped up close to max, one trick I learned from the electric vehicle community is LT rated tires in load range D or E. Sidewall flex is a large component of rolling resistance, and LT tires with a stiff sidewall and 60 to 80 psi of pressure can certainly reduce that!

curtis · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:10 pm

[quote="DarbyWalters"]I always find it a bit funny when people will pay more than we pay per gallon of diesel for so many other things.

Some Bottle Water...at $1.29 per 16 ounces=$10.37/gallon
Coke in 16 ounce bottles...at even .79 per bottle=$6.32/gallon
Monster "Energy" Drinks...at $2.29 per 16 ounces=$18.32/gallon

A gallon of milk, OJ, ect. are "at least" as much as Diesel.quote]

I wouldn't be complaining about Diesel prices if I used 10-15 gallons of each of those products a week... :lol:

Diesel fuel prices

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