SEGR/ORM Satisfaction

jdorris · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:31 am

I am happy with mine. I just made a 600 mile trip from Albuquerque to Stillwater pulling a 5 x 8 trailer with two AMC V-8 blocks and other various parts. I figure it was about 2,000 pounds. Only one stop, 70-73mph, ~2200 rpm most of the way. Got 25.6 mpg on the evic, hand calculated to 24.5. With no trailer I average about 28 on the highway. I have done the elephant hose and gasser airbox mods as well. I have put about 7,000 miles on the Jeep since these mods, and performance has improved; hesitation is gone, acceleration and mpg seems to have steadily gotten better, but I think I had a significant jump right after my last oil change, about 1,000 miles ago. Finally got the soot out maybe. In town mileage went from 17 to 20ish. In the Jeeps defense the daily commute is about 1.5 miles with about 5 stop signs between home and work and my wife has an anvil for a foot.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I got my box assembled over the weekend (thanks, UFO and Loco), now I need to splice into the harness. That is what intimidates me a bit.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:08 pm

JD (gmctd) and I did mine this weekend. I think the two most important tips I would pass on is to make sure you number the wires that exit the SEGR Box and realize that there is no #5 Wire...and...don't go just by "color coded wires" on the TCM and ECM, but instead by location number...ie..C1 76. If you have someone that knows how to read "pin" placement, you will pick it up quickly...then it is just a matter of decided where to mount the SEGR and find the correct wires to splice into.

I know that pulling ECM "plugs" and splicing into a "wiring harness" sounds like "trouble about to happen", but if you take your time it is not that hard. The other thing to remember is that it is very easy to put things back to stock...justs solder the wires back together and you are golden.

Some wires you do not "cut thru" but instead "strip" and solder the SEGR onto the same. Others you cut and attach one end to a wire that goes to the SEGR and then take another SEGR wire and attach it to the other end of the OEM wire (creating a loop).

I found a pretty good place to mount the SEGR box just under the engine fuse box in front on the Battery. I still need to make a bracket but the zip ties will hold for now until I shorten (remove the excess length) the SEGR wires and install a wire loom to make it all dissappear (virtually)...and RTV (waterproof) the box and plug.

The CEL being off is definitely a plus AND this SEGR actually controls the EGR better than just unplugging the MAF sensor. When you are out of warranty and have to replace an EGR you will wish you had disabled the thing IMHO.

Thanx to "gmctd" for all his help.

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:18 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

JD (gmctd) and I did mine this weekend. I think the two most important tips I would pass on is to make sure you number the wires that exit the SEGR Box and realize that there is no #5 Wire...and...don't go just by "color coded wires" on the TCM and ECM, but instead by location number...ie..C1 76. If you have someone that knows how to read "pin" placement, you will pick it up quickly...then it is just a matter of decided where to mount the SEGR and find the correct wires to splice into.

I know that pulling ECM "plugs" and splicing into a "wiring harness" sounds like "trouble about to happen", but if you take your time it is not that hard. The other thing to remember is that it is very easy to put things back to stock...justs solder the wires back together and you are golden.

Some wires you do not "cut thru" but instead "strip" and solder the SEGR onto the same. Others you cut and attach one end to a wire that goes to the SEGR and then take another SEGR wire and attach it to the other end of the OEM wire (creating a loop).

I found a pretty good place to mount the SEGR box just under the engine fuse box in front on the Battery. I still need to make a bracket but the zip ties will hold for now until I shorten (remove the excess length) the SEGR wires and install a wire loom to make it all dissappear (virtually)...and RTV (waterproof) the box and plug.

The CEL being off is definitely a plus AND this SEGR actually controls the EGR better than just unplugging the MAF sensor. When you are out of warranty and have to replace an EGR you will wish you had disabled the thing IMHO.

Thanx to "gmctd" for all his help.

Did ya take pics ??? Cuz im kinda nervous trying to hook this thing up and splicing into stuff that I have no idea what would happen if I screwed up....

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:47 pm

We really did forget...but...DJ is going to do Phillip's (his son) next week with pics. It should go pretty easy since we have done it once...

gmctd TAKE PICS

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:49 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

We really did forget...but...DJ is going to do Phillip's (his son) next week with pics. It should go pretty easy since we have done it once...

gmctd TAKE PICS

yes I need visuals ..... :roll:

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Any downside to using these guys for the splicing?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:09 pm

Threeweight wrote:

Any downside to using these guys for the splicing?

I wouldn't. If I remember right, some of the signals are down in the 5 volt range. Snap splices won't be reliable with signals that low.

DarbyWalters wrote:

... this SEGR actually controls the EGR better than just unplugging the MAF sensor.

How is it better? Does the EGR still stay plugged in with the SEGR? Mr. Mopar mentioned a cleaning routine that the ECM puts the EGR through. I wonder if that still happens with the MAF unplugged?

dgeist · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:32 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

... this SEGR actually controls the EGR better than just unplugging the MAF sensor.

How is it better? Does the EGR still stay plugged in with the SEGR? Mr. Mopar mentioned a cleaning routine that the ECM puts the EGR through. I wonder if that still happens with the MAF unplugged?

The MAF being unplugged prevents the ECM from being able to completely calculate how far it should open the EGR, but I think it still opens it a little. The EGR load side is open with the SEGR in place. Not connected. The big honkin' resistor takes its place from the computer's perspective.

Dan

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:39 pm

Edit for clarity, we both answered the same question

No the EGR does not still operate at all with the MAF unplugged. With the SEGR, the EGR remains CLOSED full-time. You don't WANT those galleries passing any exhaust gasses, that is how soot enters your engine.

Also, when the MAF is unplugged, the engine has no idea how much air is being injested, so it has to use a static default value which usually will use more fuel than needed. I'm not sure why some KJs would get better mileage with it unplugged... But mine didn't.

As for the snap-splices... NO NO NO. The problem with those isn't the voltage level at all. It's a metal-to-metal connection, it would work even if the signal was only 2 millivolts. No, the problem is that the wires are too small (22/24 gauge) and won't be reliably stripped by those things. Those are made for wires in the 14-16 range, MUCH larger.

I used quick taps on the installation of mine, but I used the TELEPHONE taps that are designed for 22-24 gauge wires. Radio Shack has them. They are made by 3M, and have some silicone goop in them that permanently seals out any contaminants once you squeeze the cap. There are 2 styles, a side-by-side that works just like those vampire taps in the picture, or a 3-hole splice where you join 2 or 3 wire ends together.

They work great, and are designed for severe duty (think truly permanent installation) indoors or out. I've never had one of those fail on me.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I know its a drag, but a walk through of splicing into the wiring harness would be really, really helpful to guys like me.

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:32 pm

Threeweight wrote:

I know its a drag, but a walk through of splicing into the wiring harness would be really, really helpful to guys like me.

me too.. with pics

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:40 pm

I did ours at nite thirty 'cause the kid never shows up B4 1300hrs (1pm) - ate up with mosquitoes, finished at midnite thirty, so was too rushed to get pics - will pull it back apart and do so, maybe this weekend - 'sposed to be rainy and 40-ish, here, so we'll see

Bill.Barg · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:45 am

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

I did an oil analysis and change prior to SEGR and will get another test in another couple of months for a comparison.

greiswig · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:21 pm

Bill.Barg wrote:

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

Relative to what? If it's relative to the ORM, I wouldn't be surprised since I would expect the ORM to put the ECM into default mode (can't remember whether that's open or closed loop mode? Where temperature and other parameters get ignored because the ECM has detected a fault?) If it's relative to the vehicle operating in normal mode, that's great!

Bill.Barg · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:24 pm

greiswig wrote:

Bill.Barg wrote:

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

Relative to what? If it's relative to the ORM, I wouldn't be surprised since I would expect the ORM to put the ECM into default mode (can't remember whether that's open or closed loop mode? Where temperature and other parameters get ignored because the ECM has detected a fault?) If it's relative to the vehicle operating in normal mode, that's great!

Relative to no ORM or SEGR.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Been a week since I said goodbye to the little orange CEL on the dash... very happy thus far. I was already ORM'ing it, and I have not noticed any major change in MPG or seat of the pants power. Everything is working fine. I went with the SEGR for 2 reasons - 1) to avoid costly, ongoing repairs due to failing EGR vavles, and 2) increased engine life. I'm a happy camper.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:47 pm

greiswig wrote:

Bill.Barg wrote:

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

Relative to what? If it's relative to the ORM, I wouldn't be surprised since I would expect the ORM to put the ECM into default mode (can't remember whether that's open or closed loop mode? Where temperature and other parameters get ignored because the ECM has detected a fault?) If it's relative to the vehicle operating in normal mode, that's great!

The MAF senor which is unplugged for the ORM is not supposed to be an input for fueling calculation. It is there to close the loop for the EGR. While the program could be set up to respond to the loss of MAF data in any number of ways, it doesn't need the data for fueling.

greiswig · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:52 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

greiswig wrote:

Bill.Barg wrote:

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

Relative to what? If it's relative to the ORM, I wouldn't be surprised since I would expect the ORM to put the ECM into default mode (can't remember whether that's open or closed loop mode? Where temperature and other parameters get ignored because the ECM has detected a fault?) If it's relative to the vehicle operating in normal mode, that's great!

The MAF senor which is unplugged for the ORM is not supposed to be an input for fueling calculation. It is there to close the loop for the EGR. While the program could be set up to respond to the loss of MAF data in any number of ways, it doesn't need the data for fueling.

I wasn't trying to say that the MAF was used by the ECM to calculate fuel delivery. But it wouldn't be the first time that coders used a failure in an irrelevant circuit to throw the whole baby out with the bathwater and put it into that default mode.

Glad to hear it's working out better even relative to normal engine operation. If I get a clear patch of weather (i.e. not 1" of rain per hour and under 45mph winds), I'll see if I can get mine in.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:58 pm

greiswig wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

greiswig wrote:

Bill.Barg wrote:

After some tanks, it looks like SEGR gave me a 1 mpg improvement in the city.

Relative to what? If it's relative to the ORM, I wouldn't be surprised since I would expect the ORM to put the ECM into default mode (can't remember whether that's open or closed loop mode? Where temperature and other parameters get ignored because the ECM has detected a fault?) If it's relative to the vehicle operating in normal mode, that's great!

The MAF senor which is unplugged for the ORM is not supposed to be an input for fueling calculation. It is there to close the loop for the EGR. While the program could be set up to respond to the loss of MAF data in any number of ways, it doesn't need the data for fueling.

I wasn't trying to say that the MAF was used by the ECM to calculate fuel delivery. But it wouldn't be the first time that coders used a failure in an irrelevant circuit to throw the whole baby out with the bathwater and put it into that default mode.

Glad to hear it's working out better even relative to normal engine operation. If I get a clear patch of weather (i.e. not 1" of rain per hour and under 45mph winds), I'll see if I can get mine in.

You're right, they could program almost any response to the loss of MAF data. Thankfully, I don't think they did.

SEGR/ORM Satisfaction

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