It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:05 pm

chrispitude wrote:

Joe Romas wrote:

Tech section sounds fine

I can do the mod and take plenty of pictures but it won't be till spring and warmer weather. Could be sooner as my son has a very large heated garage

Is there a possiblity of hooking up with a online parts dealer that would offer a group buy were members could mention LOST and get a couple of dollars off :lol:

I've been holding off hoping, foolish I know, that there would be a recall but that's out now. I'm sure otherswere sitting on the fence waiting too :cry:

Yep, I was sitting on that same fence. I'd absolutely love to see a nice writeup with pictures in the tech section. A group buy on the parts would be icing on the cake, if you were willing to make the phone calls.

- Chris

Chris.

I'm not a phone person but I sure can take pictures and do a write up on it :lol:

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:17 pm

DCX price is ~450bucks just for the pump - Mopartsdirect is ~200bucks for the pump, harness, and shipping - that's quite a 'group-buyer' discount, imo

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm

gmctd wrote:

DCX price is ~450bucks just for the pump - Mopartsdirect is ~200bucks for the pump, harness, and shipping - that's quite a 'group-buyer' discount, imo

That ain't bad at all :shock:

By the way. I'm still trying to figure out how to hook up a timing light :-)r

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:14 pm

Easy - red wire to the big post on the battery, black to the small post, let the fan blades strum the other wire

FYI - the part numbers are in the text under the installation pics ^

CHessMaster · **Posted:** Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:43 am

Joe Romas wrote:

By the way. I'm still trying to figure out how to hook up a timing light :-)r

You could use a luminosity probe and a timing light adapter.

http://www.oliverdiesel.com/tech/timing.htm

:shock:

You could also use a pulse adapter.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp ... up_ID=1389

Not on the CRD of course!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:22 pm

Try hooking your inductive pick up over one of the two wires going to the #1 injector. You will need to separate the two wires or the second wire will cancel out the inductive signal. It may be easier to grab the wire out of the harness after it comes out of the ECM.
A Lumi probe will work if you can find an adapter to screw into the #1 glow plug hole.
The Injector inductive signal will give you when the injector fires and not when the burning starts. The Lumi will tell you when the burning starts and may be a more accurate indication of what is going on. In the old IDI days, I would curve the Bosch VE pump by adjusting the pressure regulator so that the pump advance would have the Lumi burn start at TDC through most of the RPM range. Now days this can be done by the ECM.
What would do the most for diesel performance would be to find a way to force the fuel suppliers to sell us 55 Cetain instead of the 40 Cetain crap we get at the pump.

Steve

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:22 pm

Some of the old VW Air-Cooled engine oil pressure switches shut off at 3 PSI. Connect a 1K 1/4 watt resistor to a switched 12V supply, connect the other end of the resistor to the Anode side of a Yellow LED and run the cathode to the VW 3 PSI oil pressure switch, you will have a poor boy's fuel pressure monitor. Since the fuel filter head is plastic, you will need to ground the oil pressure switch.

Steve

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:06 pm

EFI CRD combustion is controlled by several injection events, starting with the initial pilot injection and ending with a similar event at end of combustion - this series of pulses inductively or directly sensed off the injector wire(s) could be compared to the output of the Crank Position Sensor for an interpretive visualization of actual timing, but to what end? There are no adjustments available to the end-user - a pcware scantool can see exactly what the ECM is seeing and interpreting and controlling, and offers some limited control for testiing and diagnosis.

But, I somehow get the sense that that was a humorous statement of quandry, and not a serious hint for assistive input, eh?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:37 pm

Some doctors can look at you and have a good Idea of what is going on, others need thousands of dollars in tests to have a clue weather you have a cold or the flue. Mechanics are the same, some can drive the car or truck and have a good idea what is wrong, others need a mega diagnostic machine to find an oil leak. If someone learns by hooking a timing light up to the injector and gets a feel for multiple injections, what is lost? I own a Ferret 765 and Snap-on Lumi probe and have used both with my Snap-on timing light to diesel engines to their optimum performance. I learned that the old IDI VW diesels had a crappy advance curve on the injection pump by using the Lumi probe and timing light, then I figured out how to curve the pump to max the performance with out blowing black smoke. I also own Vag-Com for my wife's TDI that I have it used to tune her diesel engine to its optimum performance, the initial timing for the TDI is too retarded and needs to be advanced to 2 degrees BTDC instead of being retarded. Before I ever hooked up any of these tools, I drove the car or truck and came up with a hypothesis on what was lacking. Then I used the tools to fine tune the engine. Novice mechanics and skilled operators who never pick up a wrench will need to develop their sense of perception to figure out what is and is not optimum performance.

Steve[/list]

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:06 pm

I finally hooked up my lift pump and it made a big difference. I now have very good strong smooth acceleration all the way up to 3500 RPM and can go all the way to 4000 with out any sign of fuel starvation. When I stop at a stop light I have a very smooth and quiet idle that I never had before, even when I purged all of the air out of the filter head.
When I got under the Liberty at 20f to install the Carter lift pump I had already, I noticed a quick snap "O" ring fitting where the steel line connects to the flex line. I have seen this type of fitting successfully used on low pressure applications, but not so good on vacuum applications. Since our CP3 pumps suck fuel out of the fuel tank in the stock configuration, I suspect that this fitting is a source of an air leak that has been over looked. By adding a lift pump, this fitting is eliminated as an air leak source.

And you ask how quiet is my engine at idle, I can hear the Carter pump running at the light. Next I need to mount it on some rubber and add a gauge to verify positive pressure. If it does not have enough at full bore I will get a bigger pump. The wiring has been run, pulling the seat is the biggest part of the job.

.

Steve

PS I want to post my pics, how does the Img* button work?[/img]

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:52 pm

Copy the url from the source site, open the REPLY, click the img button, paste the link, hit the img* button and yer good to go

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:34 pm

I hear you, but that was primitive - could you have done all that without all that then-expensive equipment? There is no VagCom for DCX, and few people even have access to an oscilloscope, much less one with storage and precision delay-time measurement, so the pc-ware tool is more viable, here, as there are very few people with no access to a laptop pc - several of the pcware tools allow access and display of the actual sensor signals, but without the VagCom equiv, you won't be making any changes to the injection process, here - even the Inmotion tune is only an oem DCX program, from which our emissions-cramped version was derived.

Stanadyne installed a piezo pulse sensor in #1 injection pipe for the snapon lumi-probe and timing light instrument for both Ford and GM - it was interesting and functional, but primitive, and dropped with advent of the EFI systems, because the then-explosion is now a controlled-burn event - to see that process you need more than the old snapon\rotunda system - I don't have one, anymore, and don't know anyone that does, outside of the local pawn shops - besides, a pc laptop and pc-ware scantool is way better than reinventing the wheel, wouldn't you say?

Almost fergot - I agree on the fuel line seal - definitely pressure rather than vacuum, tho there is little vacuum at that point if the pickup is not dirty - only whatever is required to draw a liquid at Diesel fuel density up and out the pipe - it's the filter where the vacuum level increases

One indication of problem there is a blackened filter element at replacement time - be kinda hard to see that, since the filter is in a sealed cannister, but that could indicate the intank pickup mesh is also clogged.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:57 pm

I bought these tools years ago, my version of Vag-Com is PC laptop based purchased from Ross Tech http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/. When I bough the Lumi Probe when (then the 386 was king and laptop hook ups were a twinkle in some ones eye) I was in the auto repair business for 14 1/2 years, I have been out of it for 8 years (I don't miss it one bit). The Ferret 765 was a $35 bargain on eBay (before the P4 was created). When I find a good PC system for my Laptop, I will get it, I feel it will be a better tool than a code scanner.
We all need to keep the level of technology for the time in perspective, you can't hook up a lap top to a Rabbit, but you can a TDI. As much as I like my liberty CRD, there are old diesel engines out there that can run a lot better than they do. My pop tester will not work on my CRD's nozzles, but they will on an circa 60s tractor. Ignoring the hands on history of Diesels is like the military blowing off the teachings of Sun Tzu.

Is there a good lap top cable/software setup for the CRD?

On the air leak at the quick slip fitting, don't factor out road vibration inducing a leak under low head presser vacuum even with out any restriction at the intake mesh.

I have had vacuum leaks on diesels down stream of the lift pump with no intake mesh in the tank.

What is the size of the mesh for the pick up tube in the tank? Sand blocker?

Too fine a mesh will wax up in a heart beat like the VW Rabbit Diesels did, I yanked a bucket load of them and tossed them.

Steve

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:16 am

Oh, we haven't forgotten the wheel - we just use it to roll things around on, and put teeth on'em to manage torque, and drive very-hi-pressure injection pumps for CRD engines.......

Prolly are more than several pcware scantools out there, but the two I'm familiar with are

Autoenginuity, which has generic OBD2 plus, optionally, all the DCX enhanced interface calls, comes with standard OBD2 cable and DCX Enhanced cable at autoenginuity.com - it's a highy polished professional version, with optional software modules for GM, Ford, DCX, all the EURO systems, and all the oriental systems

and Alex Peper's Carcode OBD2 scantool at (iirc) EDITED: obd-2.com, with it's own OBD2 cable, for all the systems

386? You talkin' 379 6.2 or 397 6.5? Ford was 6.9, then 7.3 - or something else?

Oh.........microprocessors................

The intank pickup mesh is just large sand blocker.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:15 am

My pop tester is circa 60s that I bought off eBay for $125 when my home made one that was fabricated from a high quality NAPA grease gun and a hydraulic pressure gauge would not go over 2500PSI with out leaking past the piston.

Thanks for the lead on Lap top OBD2 interface.
I wonder if the Ross-Tech interface will electronically connect to the Liberty since the 99 TDI has a OBD2 port? That way I can have one tool that does two jobs, I guess I better ask Mr. Ross that one after he has celebrated Christmas and new years. He is selling a USB 2.0 upgrade and this new Lap Top has no com port with out a USB adapter.

Steve

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:05 am

warp2diesel wrote:

I wonder if the Ross-Tech interface will electronically connect to the Liberty since the 99 TDI has a OBD2 port? That way I can have one tool that does two jobs, I guess I better ask Mr. Ross that one after he has celebrated Christmas and new years. He is selling a USB 2.0 upgrade and this new Lap Top has no com port with out a USB adapter.

Steve

VAG-Com works well on the CRD in it's OBDII mode The only problem I have with it is when I scan for errors it gives me a ABS error. So before I exit/close I clear errors and get out. It gives readings on most if not all engine sensors :lol:

None of the extended stuff like on a VW though :cry:

I have not left it running for extended periods to see if it locks up. We need to collect money for SAM to rebuild a crd for Uwe Ross so he'll write a JEEP-COM version :-)r

If you have more questions p-mail me. It also worked with my 96 and 99 gas (pitowee) Cherokees

Joe

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:50 pm

Here is the link to my pictures: http://pages.google.com/edit/warp2diese ... 9c9a9a325d

Regards,

Steve

[/img]

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:00 pm

warp2diesel
link doesn't work for pictures - it takes me to the Google page creator login screen.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:25 pm

Try these Picture links: http://theodric.googlepages.com/CarterE ... elPump.JPG
http://theodric.googlepages.com/QuickSnapfitting.JPG
http://theodric.googlepages.com/Wiringu ... rsside.JPG

Regards,

Steve

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 pm

Good pics - show'n'tell rules!

You'd be surprised how much a single wrap of rubber around the lift pump will quieten the buzzing - or use a grommet-type insulator on the mounting bolt - or, both.

Also, there's a 'nuther o-ring fitting on the other end of that draw-pipe at the fuel module - one is prolly better than two, tho.

Did you try the Vag-Com, yet?

It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

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