Chip tuning

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:43 am

gmctd wrote:

Cummins officially ok'd B5 for a while - now they've ok'd B20, it's on their website - but DCJ ain't budgin' - anything but LSD OR ULSD will seriously endanger your Diesel warranty, up to and incl voidance.
Apparently B5 up to B umpteen in your part of the country is not traceable to any same standard as the B's in my part of the country, or any part of the country - until the standard is strictly adhered to and enforced all over the country, that stuff could very well rotcher dipstick off, and worse - whatever the opinions, I'll wait till it's official - same goes for the ULSD situation - lubricity content is fully dependent on the distributor's adherence to strict rules covering how much and when - if he's running short, he ain't gonna hold up fuel deliveries while waiting for his supplier to come thru - adding ashless 2-stroke oil to my fuel is a safety hedge, and should also increase fuel mileage, but I suspect that the extra weight of the gallons that I carry serves to cancel out any gains.

Good comments.

It is indeed important to understand the fuel, know the differences between the various feedstocks, processing techniques and what that means for the properties of the fuel. For example, I often use Washington grown, Washington produced canola oil-based BD because it has better cold flow properties for winter. Since it is regionally produced and sold, it is also a more sustainable system. Also, I buy my fuel primarily from 2 sources extremely diligent in selling only ASTM D-6751 from NBAC audited facilities. I have been using B100 for the past 4 years with 0% problems. The consistency of performance for me may be due to using consistent suppliers (I buy in 800 gallon quantities for my own fuel depot) but the fact is, before using BD, quality of my regular diesel was quite variable by brand, by station, by storage and delivery technology and skill - things that are variable in all fuels.

Many people are not aware that official standards do now exists for BD similar to regular diesel. For regular diesel fuel, the ASTM standard is ASTM D 975. All engine and fuel injection manufacturers design their engines around ASTM D 975. Early on in the biodiesel industry's development, engine manufacturers strongly encouraged the industry to develop an ASTM standard for biodiesel fuel which would allow them to provide their customers with a more definitive judgment on how the fuel would affect the engine and fuel system compared to ASTM D 975 fuel for which an engine was designed. The biodiesel standard, ASTM PS 121-99, was approved and issued by ASTM in June of 1999. In December of 2001, ASTM approved the full standard for biodiesel, with the new designation of D-6751. Biodiesel that meets the D-6751 specification has tens of millions miles of successful, real-world use.

Most of the mods discussed in this forum void warranty. It would be difficult to explain to a dealer why they should perform warranty work when you drive in with worn ball joints due to a Frankenlift, or tranny problems from a non-approved Suncoast torque converter, or exhaust problems due to elimination of the muffler or emissions control issues related to chipping or software alterations, or transmission failures to do increased torque from mods etc.. etc.. etc... These are all mods I will likely do myself, but I'm aware they will void aspects of my warranty and I am also aware that in total they create far more potential (and known) problems than using B100. It is certainly harder to hide these mods than to simply refill your tank with regular diesel if you ever had a problem. In short: Biodiesel is the least of your worries when it comes to doing anything with your CRD other than that which is described and approved of in the owner's manual.
The CRD comes with B5 from the factory and use of BD was part of their "green" advertising campaign. The car is officially approved for up to B20. Therefore, it is not a stretch to imagine that my ASTM-rated B100 from well-established, reputable NBAC audited facilities will probably not blow up my engine.

For the most part, people in this forum are curious tinkerers - the kind of people who explore possibilities, try new things and lead the industry into new areas. The kind of thinkers I enjoy reading. My tinkering has been primarily in the area of biodiesel - I am now beginning to tinker with other systems via input, advice and experiences from the good folks in this forum. Tinkering always involves risk, but if we don't push the boundaries and lead, the status quo will remain and things of interest will rarely occur.

- Chris

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

KeighJeigh wrote:

Reflex wrote:

I'll skip the bio unless I have a failure, I really don't trust it in these engines for reasons I've stated elsewhere(and argued ad naseum about) in these forums. For the moment its a non-issue until I actually get a notice....

That's OK Reflex. You are not alone. I know lots of people who have all sorts of superstitions....angels, tooth fairies, gnomes and yes, biodiesel-will-wreck-your-engine superstitions. Heck, about 4 years ago when I began running B100 100% of the time, my computer crashed and I'm absolutely certain it was the biodiesel in the tank out in my driveway. And I guarantee you can't prove it didn't happen. :lol:

...or in my case as I have explained previously I am familiar with studies performed explicitly on this engine that demonstrated severely accellerated wear rates when using BD. Seriously, I like most of your comments, but its rude to just assume that no one could have a good reason to be wary. Disagreement is one thing, but there is no reason to get insulting.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:36 am

Data speaks louder than words. I'm sure we would all appreciate a look at such a study.

calcrd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:31 pm

You mentioned that the CRD is officially qualified to run on B20. I have access to B20 at a Rotten Robbie station nearby but have been reluctant to use it because I thought the CRD was only approved for B5. Could you please refer me to the source of official Jeep approval for the B20 blend ?

Thanks

Spowers · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:38 pm

Back on topic - is there any additional modification for the inmotion flash>?
- bigger exhaust?
- EGT gage?
- Boost gage?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:23 pm

Spowers wrote:

Back on topic - is there any additional modification for the inmotion flash>?
- bigger exhaust?
- EGT gage?
- Boost gage?

Suncoast Torque Converter - the stock one has problems (someone's already had issues)
EGT gauge is a good idea on a stock Diesel - more so on Mods - much more of an issue if you tow.

kjcrd117 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:29 pm

Spowers,

I'm personally holding off on the InMotion tuning until I have the Suncoast torque converter put in. I just have a feeling the extra HP and torque of the tuning may rip up the factory TC.

In the meantime I'm also going to put on a new muffler, the Racor 245 fuel assembly, a ProVent, and perform the SEGR mod.

That all said, I'd do the InMotion now, but I personally consider upgrading the torque converter as a high priority prerequisite. I'm going to hold off on getting the Suncoast TC put in until my upcoming transmission and transfer case maintainence though. I figure I'll get that all done at the same time, and then get the InMotion flash done.

I'll probably go with InMotion's DIY tuning (even if it requires a 2 grand deposit), since I don't really want any downtime. ...Well, that and I'm too lazy to rent a car, hehe.

Spowers · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:44 pm

Agree with the suncoast - I'm still running the stock convertor and non F-37 ECU

So a little extra kick in the pants will be fun.
Thanks for the replies

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:05 pm

F37 should really be done prior to Suncoast to get the upgraded pump and front cover - or, you can buy the pump\cover and have it installed with the Suncoast\Transgo installation.

kjcrd117 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:20 pm

gmctd,

When I had the F37 done, all they did was reprogram the ECM/TCM and throw a new torque converter in there.

I was thinking about upgrading the pump/cooler (you have to get them both at the same time, right?) and filters, but was not aware of the front cover. Excuse my ignorance, but is the pump attached to the cover, or are they separate items?

Does anybody have the part numbers handy for everything that a full F37 would entail (other than the torque converter)? I'm sure I could crawl through a bunch of threads (I actually have some bookmarked), but if anybody has relevant part numbers handy, that'd be great.

In any case, I basically want to get all of this stuff done at one time, and would like to have the most "up-to-date" parts while I'm at it.

Sorry to help drag this thread further off topic.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:32 pm

The new cover is part of the pump modification - the specific p\n's are listed in an earlier thread - a search should find the info.

kjcrd117 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:53 pm

gmctd wrote:

The new cover is part of the pump modification - the specific p\n's are listed in an earlier thread - a sarch should find the info.

Alrighty, thanks for the clarification. I'll try to narrow down the other parts from the threads I have bookmarked from my previous searches.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:25 am

They only replace the pump under F37 if they hear "noise" from the torque converter when running it at idle. In other words, it's the dealer's call when they do F37 as to whether or not you get the pump. No noise, all you get is the torque converter. And a bunch of screwed-up software loaded into your TCM. :evil:

New pump and cover was something like $250 altogether when I had the tranny shop pop in the Suncoast.

No need for a new cooler unless they find debris floating around in the tranny fluid when they take yours apart. That's the reason they replace both the pump and the cooler under F37 if the TC is clanking away - it may have sent debris out into the tranny that could damage the pump and clog the cooler. If there's no debris and the fluid is nice and clean, just the Suncoast TC and the new pump will do you.

kjcrd117 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:53 pm

retmil,

Based on what you said, I think I'll just plunk the money into the pump/cover and filters/gasket, and then install all of that with the Suncoast.

If I have any more transmission questions, I'll start a new thread.

RED RAM · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:39 pm

kjcrd117 wrote:

Spowers,

I'm personally holding off on the InMotion tuning until I have the Suncoast torque converter put in. I just have a feeling the extra HP and torque of the tuning may rip up the factory TC.

In the meantime I'm also going to put on a new muffler, the Racor 245 fuel assembly, a ProVent, and perform the SEGR mod.

That all said, I'd do the InMotion now, but I personally consider upgrading the torque converter as a high priority prerequisite. I'm going to hold off on getting the Suncoast TC put in until my upcoming transmission and transfer case maintainence though. I figure I'll get that all done at the same time, and then get the InMotion flash done.

I'll probably go with InMotion's DIY tuning (even if it requires a 2 grand deposit), since I don't really want any downtime. ...Well, that and I'm too lazy to rent a car, hehe.

Does any one have the site for Inmotion tune

kjcrd117 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:51 pm

RED RAM wrote:

Does any one have the site for Inmotion tune

http://www.inmotionusa.com/jeepgraphs.html

kelticknight · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:39 pm

UFO wrote:

Diesel emissions checks here in Colorado are a joke. All they test is exhaust opacity under load, which even my worn-out diesel Benz passes without trouble. No one is going to check whether your ECM has a factory program or not. No way.

agree

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:16 pm

Your CRD was designed to hook up to the state DMV computers for a standardized test called by your VIN - operator does nothing but connect the cable to the DLC connector, tube to the exhaust, another over the fuel cap - computer then reads the VIN, selects the correct schedule, starts the engine, and everything takes off from there - then comes the blinkenlites und spitzensparken, and everyone in the shop turns and looks at you, some furtively, some staring, where you're sitting in the waiting area - computer tech shakes his head sadly, disconnects the cables, hands you your keys and the red REJECTED form, and a few days later you get a further detailed duplicate from the state capitol, declaring failure due to emissions tampering, and your court date in bold\underline in the upper right corner.

Some of that is projection, but most of it is happening here in Texas, even as we type, within a so-many county radius of each major metropolitan area - only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

With congress\senate firmly behind it, every state will be compliant at some level by 2010 - if it's not in your state, you aint seen bad, yet - but it's comin'. Older NOBD Diesels will still get the opacity test, but will run on a dyno to measure real emissions at all levels - drive-by-cable will be operator managed following instructions on the computer screen - drive-by-wire will be DMV computer-controlled

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:01 pm

What I be doing is unplug the chip, plug MAF back in, erase codes with the creater reader then remove the reader. No one the wiser.

Then I plug all back in (unplug MAF) when I leave the DMV inspection. :wink:

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:27 am

Only one teeny-weeny problem with the above. The DMV or anyone else, from what I understand, cannot read the correct exhaust readings because diesel engines go from 1 to 100 air-fuel-ratios. Even a wide-band O2 meter can only go from 10-20:1 ratio.
Here is Arizona, the only thing they can do is plug in, read codes (too bad there are not any), and check opacity, or how black the smoke is. Your done, and stiffed $25.00 for some idiot to tell you that your Ok.

Chip tuning

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