I'd be happy to come up there and brew that up for ya... But I think my jerry cans might be a bit thirsty once it was ready!

I love the comments about the soy meal - LOL! As soon as I can, I'm going to plant myself a little plot of algae and feed it seawater and sewage and see what kind of yields I can get by just squishing it. Detractors say that you can't get oil by just crushing the algae... But that's how we get the oil from the soy! And in a plant that is more than 50% (by some estimates) oil... I'd say that is a very juicy plant indeed! (Maybe it's like a tomato or a cucumber... Can't say those are much less than 50% water, right?)

I haven't brewed myself in about 3 years (has it been that long already?) b/c it was getting to the point that I couldn't get quality oil anymore in South Florida. I'm thinking about talking to some of the smaller restaurants up here in Savannah however, b/c the mindset here is a lot different than in "North Cuba" and people are a lot more into being independent of "the man" in any way possible. Might have something to do with poking a sharp stick at the "Revenuers"and such. Even tho I've taken apart my processor, I still remember how I had it assembled, and except for the pump and filters (which I still have) it was all just PVC and valves. I do think that I'm going to change the filter design if I start up again, I've got to find a centrifugal filter. I am a firm believer in gravity filtration and not washing the finished product (which ADDS a pollutant that you can't remove) but the filter media was constantly getting plugged. Also, if I can find someone skilled in producing quality shine... I might just have a source for the alcohol! *hic*

I've got a 5gal reflux still that puts out ~90% good stuff but the best source that i have found for Etoh is E85. I did my last few batches without washing and had 0 problems. After bubbling for a couple of days I let the product sit for about a month in a couple of open barrels so the remaining glycerin and soap settles out. The unwashed product seems to be higher quality than the washed stuff. I never prefilter the oil except to strain the frys and cockroaches out. all the contaminants seem to go with the glycerin but I still bag filter to one micron before my storage drums. I have had others tell me that they often clog pre-tank filters but I have yet to plug one I just change them out after a few hundred gallons. I am sure that you will find a good source of oil in Savanna with all those seafood joints around and if you have to eat at Uncle Bubba's Seafood & Oyster House once a week, well I that's just a cross you will have to bear.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

When I was collecting, I was pumping it straight from the oil dumpsters, and got to the point where I could tell if what I was getting was any good just by the color. 1000 gallons will do that for the experience. I would pull fairly slowly using a 12v diesel fuel pump (Gasboy with brass impeller) and stop as soon as I saw the muck layer in the dumpster. Typically I would get about 40% out of the can if it was full. Only a few could I get close to the bottom in. The oil had to be relatively clean then (settled for at least a few days) and I would gravity settle it again for at least 7 days in my own storage drums. Pump the WVO through Fram or Purolator canister oil filters (after a junk screen to catch the wonton and burrito bits)...

Then brew. Filter the final BD 24 hours after brewing by draining the glycerin from the bottom (store that to settle and separate for 2 weeks - get another gallon+ from 5 of glyc) and pump the BD into the storage drum through a 10 micron Purolator Pure One canister filter... Then another Purolator Pure One canister filtered it on it's way to either the car, or back into the tank (if the handle was closed at the car, the flow would head back to the drum, in a filtration loop.

Never had a problem, and I still have a bunch of test bottles in my garage in Florida (80+% humidity and HOT) that are all nice and clear apple juice looking. None have turned green from bacteria, and a couple are open to the air just for fun... And haven't gained any level from water adsorption either. (graduated flask)

A couple of the earliest samples have settled out some nasties, but I would suspect those nasties are what doomed my fuel temp sensor when I started brewing and wasn't filtering quite as much, or letting the oil settle out. Possibly some muck layer got in, I don't know.

The idea of a centrifugal filter tho really interests me. From what I've heard, it can filter down to 2 microns easily, and has no media to change out... So it can operate continuously and shouldn't ever clog. The filtered sludge moves to the outside walls and is compacted together, where it falls to the bottom and can be simply drained out at a valve. The clean material is pulled from the center of the vortex. They use them for fuel filtration on ships, and since ships burn bunker oil (diesel sludge) I'd say that it should work great for biodiesel... But I don't know where to get one.

Fortunatly, the decisions on these issues are not being made by people like you who do not understand the big picture.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Fortunately, nobody asked for your overinflated sense of self importance or your opinion.

You can keep deluding yourself like a tiny minority on the TDI board (all of one person on there too) that continues to believe that the best solution will be created by the oil industry, and will be available "just around the corner" in 10+ years. I for one, and a great many like me, are proving day after day that not only are MULTIPLE solutions available, they are both VIABLE at making a dent in our oil addiction AND are not harmful to our vehicles. And if they are somehow proven harmful (and that does NOT look likely) then at least changes can be made to either the vehicle or the fuel because of our sacrifices of our own vehicles to the "testing".

But of a growing number of biodiesel users and in many cases, producers, the only problems have been experienced by people running SVO (too thick) or improper mixes that have caused preventable damage. Not one person running GOOD QUALITY filtered fuel has had an engine failure or the "50% usable life" that you are so fond of espousing. So stow it.

I'm not interested in your high-and-mighty opinion, as it isn't matched by ANY tested FACTS that I have experienced in any way, shape, or form. My engines have neither imploded, fallen apart, seen reduced life, increased wear, decreased performance, purple spots, or any other failures. To the contrary, the Jetta that I sold after 30k miles of PURE biodiesel and extremely hard driving (I admit I'm tough on my cars, and drive them like I stole them most of the time, yet was STILL getting 40mpg+ in that Jetta, as well as towing 3000 lbs with it)... The new owner also owned an identical Jetta, same year and options and transmission... And he said that mine, with MORE MILEAGE was not only FASTER (still stock except for nozzles and that's it!) but also smoother and more responsive than his other car.

Do I credit biodiesel with the handling? No, German engineering. But the performance of a new engine, even after 150k miles and LOTS of time idling (easily over 168 total hours of long-term idling while I slept) I credit entirely to biodiesel.

My fuel was and is clean. I made it in as clean a process as I could, and filtered it as described above. I dare say that the commercial dino-fuel is probably not tested or filtered nearly as much as my fuel was, and the proof is in the performance: The ONLY problem with the injection pump happened after 60k miles of NON-BIODIESEL passed through it, and the Bosch shop said that there was NO CHANCE that my bio could have caused the internal seal failure after so much time - it was obviously caused by the changeover to ULSD.

But thanks for playing anyway.

1) Biodiesel will not solve all of our energy needs.
1.1) So what. It can still contribute.

2) Some biodiesel stocks are worse than dino diesel.
2.1) So, don't use the problematic stocks such as palm oil. Regionally grown and manufactured using sustainable methods. No big deal.

3) Biodiesel will ruin your engine. (or erase your computer hard drive or some such thing)
3.1) No, it won't. Yesterday I read of a fellow who is getting thousands of dollars in repairs done on his CRD specifically because of bad USD. From this are we to conclude USD will ruine engines? Keep BD clean, buy it from a reputable source who makes it to ASTM standards, or make it yourself to high standards and you're good to go.

4) In the foreseeable future there will be no magic bullet for energy production. Get used to it and stop treating each potential source as "the" answer and then getting horribly upset when you find out it has some problems that need to be worked out.

5) SOMEONE has to have these discussions and "drive" change by creating a market for alternative fuels as well as and sacrifice for being guinea pigs and the first to try something. The alternative? Sit around on your hands hoping our Lord and Savior Big Oil will figure something out on there own.

6) "But Chris, what other forms of energy are there? I have not heard of any that are truly viable."
6.6) Because it is not sexy, it is not particularly entertaining.
* Diverse of energy sources and appropriate regional fuels are the way to go. ANY conversation that focuses on XYZ fuel not being a fuel that can solve all of our needs with should is futile.

BTW: Here is a good list of alternative energy sources (I contributed some of these but this sight grows constantly:
http://www.logicalscience.com/technology/

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Amen! if I remember the original post correctly it was a question about whether or not biodiesel would harm his engine. The preponderance of evidence gathered in the past several years (both anecdotal and by the scientific method) conclusively shows that there is not even a remote chance that biodiesel is more detrimental than ULSD.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

That nail has been hit dead center. it's funny to hear someone talk about the "big picture" when they are looking at it upside down through a kaleidoscope. I think that I'm going to add "REMEMBER THE STARVING HAITIANS" to my sig.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Yes, you’re correct, that was the original post. I was convinced that Bio was the way to go a few pages back. Keep bringing more good information to the table and sharing your ideas. I just wish Biodiesel was easier to find. It’s a shame that I have to hunt down good fuel.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

You will soon have more access to it new plants are going up all the time. check out the map.
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiese ... isting.pdf

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Chris - As usual I agree with you nearly 100%, my only disagreement is that crop based fuels have *any* role in the future, I see them as environmentally disasterous even when locally grown. But then I know the kind of damage that farming does to the environment, and for the extremely tiny displacement of our fuel it does not seem worth it to me. Other than that, I agree, and conservation and diversification are both keys to solving this condundrum.

Geordi - Once again you build up a strawman out of my position that you can then tear into. Where did I ever say that the traditional oil companies will come out with our answer in 10+ years? I don't have faith in them at all and never have expressed it. I'm big on alternative energies, I just am also aware of the scalability issue, which people like you are unaware of. Already someone in this thread pointed out the rising cost of methanol you use to make BD, as people continue to do this at home and plants continue to manufacture BD, what do you think will happen as the supply gets constrained? You won't be able to make it cheaper for long, all levels of the supplies will and are getting constrained, ruining it for everyone, not just a small hobbyist group.

Address what I actually said if you want to debate, not what you wish I had said.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Reflex
I usually stay off the side lines, but being a ex-farmer. I must agree
with you. I plowed my fields, poured lime and fert on them, cut the
crop, sold the grass off it.
My income, lower tax cause it was Agr. I may have broken even in
the long run not counting my labor hours involved.
Cows sent to market, same same, few cents more a pound than
some of the others cause they were good. My time to round them up, pen
them load them and haul them to market. Freebie.
I sub-divided the acreage, sold off parcels, 10 ac tracts. Did a deal with a broker
and sold all the equipment lump sell. Tractor, disks, combines, bailers.etc.
But on the subject, Had I planted that area in fuel usage would have been
zero or so unless Gov. kicked back some to plant the stuff.
I don't know the answer to this whole question but I still keep
looking at all the talks here.
Thanks for all the imput here.
Steve

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06 Silver Liberty
EHM/SEGR
Fumoto Oil Drain
No rock climbing
No mudding
Hangs behind my
motorhome on tow bars. Semi-retired and still learning.

crd liberty - Thank you for the input, and I agree. I DO think there should be farm assistance. People see it as wasteful to pay farmers not to farm, but it is protecting our future use of that land in reality. Inventing crops to grow on that land which we then overpay for(corn/soy) to solve a problem that they are incapable of solving is unnecessarily damaging, I'd rather just pay them to leave the land fallow until we need it later(or god forbid, let nature reclaim the excess).

In my opinion, the primary support for biofuel subsidies is not from the farmers themselves, but from corporations like Monosato who stand to make a mint selling the custom designed corn and other crops that will be farmed on that land and with that money...

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

There are shades of grey here. It is necessary to grow crops to get biodiesel off the ground, but using soy does not make sense because the yields are so low. But BlueSun biodiesel in Colorado has the right idea. They are working with farmers directly, and paying them to grow mustard that is suited for the high plains and has high oil yields. There has never been an argument with me that biofuels cannot support transportation by itself, however they can play a key role by first proving engine run on them reliably and well (they DO), then kicking in algal biodiesel that doesn't require fresh water or crop land, and by that time, we will be able to support transportation with electric power generated with renwables. Electric cars are the future (incidentally, H2 cars are NOT).

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

While its good that they are using a better crop for thier situation, as I said no crop can really promise anything significant beyond a 3% solution. That said, I agree with you that electric is the future, but its going to require advances in energy storage and charging technologies(battery/hydraulics) as well as widespread nuclear power to provide capacity. Both of which we should be starting on now IMO.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

I think getting the fuel to the market to prove it out on existing technology is worth growing the crops. It's a process thing, not a pull the plug on one fuel and hope the other is ready. The economy will follow easier and benefit more if there are fewer shocks.

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

Precisely.
Most people here agree that, by most accounts Algae BD has the potential for being one of many fairly decent contributors to a diverse energy future. BUT algae BD would never even have been a topic of discussion had there been zero market interest in BD. Interest in biodiesel depended upon risk takers, tinkerers, entrepreneurs and the like contributing their equipment, cars, brains - and in some cases reputations - in the interest of "driving" change.

Define the problem: Oil, upon which our entire civilization depends, (food, fabrics, fuel, shelter, transportation) will increase in price and eventually run out. Simultaneously, it is causing catastrophic, global pollution that threatens mass extinctions and damage to the human species.
Potential solutions:
1) Wait for the end of oil and hope God saves us all.
2) Wait for the end and hope the almighty oil companies save us all.
3) Wait for the end and hope the government saves us all.
4) Push for, contribute to, involved yourselves in a vigorous process of change which has many different faces. Without driving markets greedy people (entrepreneurs like myself) won't get on board, and without the greedy people you have no investment and without investment you have nothing but tongue wagging and hand wringing - if that.

So, fill your tank with regionally grown, sustainable BD where you can. In Washington State, this is a company that sets the standard for intelligent BD. (I know some of these folks): http://www.cwbiodiesel.com/index.html
Fill up your tank w/BD, and if you are like me and enjoy engaging strangers in interesting conversation, put a provocative sticker on the back of your car like UFO does. Be prepared to teach, learn and encourage them to participate in change in their own way.
Fill up your tank and show people that your car does not explode when you do. Show the that change is not as scary as they think. People who are change-oriented risk takers often forget how terrified people are of changing something so familiar as their fueling habits. It uproots and brings consciousness to what is otherwise part of a nearly unconscious weekly ritual of filling with dino fuel. Dino fuel is predictable. They don't want to have to learn something new. They don't want to have to think about how their vehicles operate. They fear change because they don't understand it and this is a subject they feel they have no control over. Help them relax about it. We need more people like them trying new things, inventing and participating or we really are completely and utterly screwed - and will probably be reduced to a few breeding pairs at the poles in the next century.

BTW: Although I strongly disagree with Reflex that land crops are NEVER appropriate for use as biofuels, and although his devil's advocacy irritates me almost as much as my father who ALWAYS plays this role in EVERY topic, his contributions to the debate are critical as part of a challenge and check process.

- Chris

PS - One person can have a dramatic impact within his sphere of influence, and like a ripple in the water, that influence can move outward rapidly without any further input from you. There aren't many things I do particularly well in this world, but for better or worse, I am the person my friends and family point to as the "alternative energy person". I am the one they ask questions of when curious - and I often get some rather curious questions. If I was not driving BD cars and planing micro-hydro at my house, I highly doubt any of them would have much interest in the subject. My mom bought a Prius because of our dinner table talk on the subject. It was my interest in the subject and selling the concept that led to my senior engineering project designing and building a micro-hydro station for several rural off-grid houses. Why does this matter? Because I am relaxed about the subject and invite people into it as a fun thing to ponder and be involved in, they respond and start the ripple..... Part of my mantra for several years is that once Joe Six Pack thinks this alternative energy thing is OK and no longer frightened of it and supports it, then change will really begin to happen.
"Look Joe, Biodiesel and solar cells ain't just for hippies any more! You can own a gun, mod your rig, drink Bud Ice, and spank waitresses on the butt and still put a green sticker on your bumper." (I no longer drink Bud Ice - but the rest applies in various ways and degrees )[/url]

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Keighjeigh, I think that your comments, reasoning and data are some of the best I have ever read. Keep it coming.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Bio is now MORE than normal diesel by almost 20 cents!

_________________
No longer a CRD or Jeep owner. Selling everything I have, needs to go as I need the room for a project.

Not here.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.