It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:40 pm

Sunday was a good day to put the pump in, so I went for it. I dropped the tank by removing the 4 bolts that hold the straps and loosened the clamp that holds the filler tube on. You also need to unhook the breather tube that runs up by the filler door and slide it out as the tank drops. That is also the best way to get the filler tube off, break it loose while it is up there, then it will pretty much slide off as the tank drops. I had about an 1/8th of a tank and the weight wasn't too bad until the fuel started sloshing. Get a friend to help bring it down. I used a jack to get it down the lowest point the jack would go then had my dad help lift the tank off the jack and set it on the floor. The hoses and wiring are long enough to allow the tank to sit on the ground. The hoses are a hard plastic, not rubber, so be careful in flexing these too much. Push the tabs in on the connectors and they will slide right off. Pull the tank out from under the Jeep. I used a screw driver and hammer to tap (beat) the ring off. I would also recommend cleaning the top of the tank to avoid getting dirt in once the clip ring releases. Pull out the original unit, clean out the gasket groove, and put the new unit in putting it in the right orientation for the hoses (one notch clockwise from the original). Notice (or mark) the wiring on the new unit so you get the ground and positive in the right spot in the connector. Now compress down the unit and get the ring started. At this point, I pushed down on the unit and had dad hit the ring to relock it. It snapped right back to where it needs to be.

At this point, I finished up the wiring, but ran into one snag. It turns out I was about 6 inches too short in the wires I was running to the tank, so I spliced in a patch, soldering and shrink wrapping. I'm pretty sure the wire is 16 ga. so I would use that to make the patch cables. Then I stuffed the wire in the conduit and disassembled the connector and inserted my two new wires in the correct locations, and put the connector back together.

Now slide the tank back under and put the hoses on, and lift it back up, getting that breather through the frame and lining up the filler hose. Put the straps back on. I found the bolts on the straps, especially the ones towards the front of the Jeep were rather rusty, so I put a little anti-seize compound on.

Now my next part of this project was to put the CAT filter back on since it would not have ample flow to handle getting fuel through the better filtration medium. (I had problems with the filter before filling with air and the Jeep acting like it had no power.) So I put the CAT filter on and then left the output of the filter head off and pumped about 3 or 4 gallons of fuel through the system to get any contaminants out before letting the injection pump have fuel. I put a one gallon can in the engine compartment and turned the key on (not start) and let the pump run for the computer controlled 25 or so seconds. Then dumped it the container back in the tank and it did it multiple times. After the 4 gallons I hooked the output up and fired up the Jeep. She stuttered a little and smoked some on and off for the first 30 seconds of running at one point making a weird stuttering that I had never seen before so I shut it off. After a small panic attack and a restart, it didn't do it again and has run fine since. I'm guessing it was some final air coming out.

Part of my installation was also an Autometer 0-15 psi electric pressure gauge that I can monitor the output side of the filter with. This should give me an indication of when to change the filter based on pressure changes under acceleration.

Some points I noticed. During the flushing, the pump was outputting around a half gallon per key on run time. Based on this, I would say the output of this pump is around 60 gallons per hour. Pressure wise, I am seeing around 9 psi at key on and idle. During driving, pressure varies from 7-9 psi based on engine speed. During deceleration, pressure will rise to around 10 psi and then usually come back down to 9.5 psi once stopped.

Overall, fuel filter changes will now be fairly simple. My stutter after hard acceleration is gone. Also, I feel like it is a little more responsive taking off from traffic lights. That delay that used to exist, like it had to build a little pressure to get going, now seems gone. I've driven about 50 miles since I put it in, and so far everything seems ok. Cross our fingers.

GMCTD, How many miles have you put on with this pump installed?
Sir Sam, Thanks for the hosting offer. Let me finalize the pics, and I will send them to you.

Hopefully this helps people. The job isn't too bad. The procedure I described in this post took about 3 hours from start to putting the tools away.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:38 pm

Good install - altho, I used the same harness, pulling the entire V6 fuel module wiring\connector out for install into the CRD harness, and had correct length, incl service loop - you may have left too much loop inside the cabin - no difference in wheelbase or tank location\configuration to account for your discrepancy in wire length - if you can see\reach the splice, pack it with black RTV for weatherproof seal.

Also, DCJ provided correct grounding termination point for the lift pump ground, requiring no floorpan puncture to the outside world - if you did so, also need to smear that punch-thru with the black RTV to water-proof the floorpan at that point - moldy\mildewy carpet under-mat is a decided turn-off anytime the vehicle door(s) is opened

We've got ~3kmi on it, no problem - no leaks from oem DCJ fuel manager head

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:37 pm

I must have lost the few inches along the way. I did run it exactly where the exisiting harness was including going through the existing grommet through the floor. I located the ground right near the connector inside the cabin. Who knows. I am also still using the DCJ filter head, just with the CAT filter. I only have one leak where the output banjo fitting is. I experimented drilling the top of the banjo bolt to mount the pressure sending unit, but that did not end up working out. So I removed the banjo bolt off the old head (I had a spare) and putting that on the unit in the Jeep, but the copper washers don't seem to be sealing too well. I re-torqued it so hopefully that takes care of it. Its a super slow minor leak, but enough to make it slightly wet.

MACKJ · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:08 pm

dieseldawg wrote:

... I am also still using the DCJ filter head, just with the CAT filter. I only have one leak where the output banjo fitting is. I experimented drilling the top of the banjo bolt to mount the pressure sending unit, but that did not end up working out. So I removed the banjo bolt off the old head (I had a spare) and putting that on the unit in the Jeep, but the copper washers don't seem to be sealing too well. I re-torqued it so hopefully that takes care of it. Its a super slow minor leak, but enough to make it slightly wet.

Hi dieseldawg,
I had a similar PITA leak after my mods.
I tried various new copper washers and was a little worried about over torquing the banjo bolt and risking cracking the filter head.
I solved it by applying (carefully) a small amount of Loctite Aviation Sealant No3.
First remove the upper copper washer from the banjo bolt and apply the gasket goo to the underside of the bolt head. Slip the copper washer back on and apply a little to the underside of the washer. Slide the bolt through the banjo fitting and do a similar application for the lower washer, making sure you do not get any goo anywhere the fuel has to flow. Torque up the banjo assembly onto the filter head and wipe off any excess. Allow the loctite to cure...I think I left it over night before pressurising the filter head. (This stuff stays tacky and is suitable for diesel fuel.)
Presto, no more leaks.
This is cut from the PDF brochure here in Oz...I think that the Permatex No3 is similar, if not made by the same company...
Nº3 Aviation
Gasket Sealant
Slow drying, non-hardening
sealant approved for use in
aviation, automotive, marine
and industrial applications.
Recommended for: close fitting
machined surfaces, sealing
hoses and dressing solid
gaskets.
3J 50ml brushtop bottle
3JB 50ml carded brushtop
30517 118ml brushtop can
30516 473ml brushtop can

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:43 pm

Thanks MACKJ,
I think I have some of that stuff. It seems to be dry now, but I will keep an eye on it and your solution will be my next step. Thank you.

I also wanted to post this question for anyone that has done the Cummins pump mod, or any lift pump for that matter. As you read, part of my install was a fuel pressure gauge. I am getting some varying readings and am wondering if anyone else is seeing this. At idle, not moving, I am seeing around 9.5 psi. When I decelerate, depending how hard I push the brake pedal related to my deceleration speed, the gauge will move up to around 11 psi. As in, if i hit the brakes and slow down at a normal rate, slightly in the brakes, it'll show 10.5 psi. If I brake hard for a quick stop, I see 11 psi and a hair above that. But as soon as I complete my stop, the gauge goes back to 9.5 psi. Then under acceleration, it drops like you would expect it to as you are using fuel. I have tried slowing down in neutral...same thing. I have tried stopping with the e-brake and it does it. Even if you pump the brake...inching forward and hitting the brake pedal, the gauge will jump. Its bizarre. Has anyone else seen this?? It is an autometer ultra lite 0-15 psi electric gauge.

Thanks,
Craig

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:33 pm

Now you see why a fuel pressure guage is not standard equipment, nor an oil pressure guage nor a temperature guage with numerical degrees - those readings are normal @ 9psi +\- 2psi - suggestion: put the guage out in the engine bay, get a Boost guage - it's ever so much more fun to watch manifold pressure in it's wild variations - add an EGT guage for comparative stability and peace of mind - check the fuel guage anytime yer messin' around under the hood..............

Zonie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:07 pm

Is there a place on this forum with instructions on installing the Kennedy lift pump?
If not, will one of you put one together?

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:44 pm

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=98

(p48)
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... highlight=

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:51 pm

The Kennedy is nonstandard so the installs are custom - I felt this was one of the best
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25299&highlight=lift+pump+install

MACKJ · **Posted:** Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:00 pm

Thanks ATXKJ :wink:

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:26 am

dieseldawg wrote:

Sunday was a good day to put the pump in, so I went for it. .....

Hopefully this helps people. The job isn't too bad. The procedure I described in this post took about 3 hours from start to putting the tools away.

DD, how have your results been thus far? Consistent with others with similar mods?

dieseldawg · **Posted:** Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:33 pm

Its been 6 days since it was installed. Jeep is running great and I have yet to experience the 55 mph stutter we all have. I think not having any air in the filter head has made a huge difference. I have also noticed it seems a little more responsive accelerating from a stand still. That lag it used to have when you took your foot off the brake, put it in the pedal and then a second later it would go...Now it is an instant go. I am happy so far. I just have to quit being so super sensitive to every noise and feeling i notice as I drive. I don't think anything is wrong, I just get nervous. I would recommend doing this mod. I'm just looking forward to fuel filter changes where you screw off old, screw on new...turn the key, bleed the air, and continue down the road. No more wondering if it will have air leaks.

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:43 pm

Parts on order, going to do this one, vehicle cranks too much after sitting for a couple of days.
Now to figure out the wiring under the seat, that will be my weak area on this mod. Plus this
was getting too far down the list to find.

honey_don't · **Posted:** Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:53 pm

I've got the parts coming also, thanks gmctd

To do before lift pump install:
1) pull EHM, plug in MAF, go to dealer and (hopefully) get warranty replacement fuel head due to leaking heater plug, unburnt.
2) install CAT filter and bleeder valve
3) wait for wife to burn more fuel to lighten tank

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:11 pm

Make sure you guys order the correct tank harnes for your year model -

Module, Fuel Pump 2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
5143160AA $156.21

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2006 LIBERTY 3.7L
56047848AB $51.78

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2005 LIBERTY 3.7L
56050284AB $35.85

If you do inadvertantly wind up with the wrong harness, just strip the lift pump pair outta the wrong set and install them in your harness - so easy, even a cave man could do it................

Other than that, take pics and axe fer hep........................

marauderer · **Posted:** Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:33 pm

gmctd wrote:

Make sure you guys order the correct tank harnes for your year model -

Module, Fuel Pump 2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
5143160AA $156.21

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2006 LIBERTY 3.7L
56047848AB $51.78

WIRING, FUEL TANK 2005 LIBERTY 3.7L
56050284AB $35.85

If you do inadvertantly wind up with the wrong harness, just strip the lift pump pair outta the wrong set and install them in your harness - so easy, even a cave man could do it................

Other than that, take pics and axe fer hep........................

Okay GMCTD where is everyone ordering their parts from? and are the prices you quoted list price from Jeep? I want to order the parts this week and any help streamlining the process is appreciated.

honey_don't · **Posted:** Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:56 pm

hey marauder:

I ordered from moparpartsamerica.com

easy search and find using part numbers posted here.

Prices for 05 harness and the pump as my order last week:

Item: Fuel system Fuel system components Fuel pump assy Diesel 34
Price: $149.86
Item: WIRING FUEL TANK
Price: $34.40

So costs are going down, as noted by gmctd make sure you get the 06 harness. They also had all the v6 airbox parts in stock if that is of interesst!

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:46 pm

gmctd wrote:

Make sure you guys order the correct tank harnes for your year model - ...snip

If you do inadvertantly wind up with the wrong harness, just strip the lift pump pair outta the wrong set and install them in your harness - so easy, even a cave man could do it................

..snip

My inner voice translates this as "so easy, even a gasser (ptooooey!) mechanic could do it..." Besides, the NDL (Neanderthal Defamation League...) may file a complaint after that whole TV thing.

:lol:

Mark

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:44 pm

Yep - gotsta be careful around them defamation leagues - must be 20,000 of 'em out there and, just like Jules Verne wrote about, I think most should be under the sea - wonder if there was enuff interest for that fall series to return this spring?

honey_don't · **Posted:** Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:29 pm

Please give me some input on what ya'll recommend here:

The dealer just installed a new fuel manager head and filter under warranty. My plan was to now install the CAT filter, which I already have, onto the new head prior to putting in the lift pump. Now I am considering leaving the new MOPAR filter on and installing the lift pump with the system as is. That way, if it leaks, I will know it has nothing to do with the cat install. OR, would I have the best results with the CAT install on a brand new fuel head with 3 miles on it? Thanks

It's 10pm - where's your lift pump?

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