Ok, don't laugh...

DaveKJ02 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:11 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

The Patriot and Compass are nice vehicle for there intended purpose,offroad is just not one of them.They are marketed for the "mall crawling" crowd,just like the Grand and Commander,and since about '04 the KJ and KK.

New red headed step children in the family?

renegadekj · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:24 pm

Exactly!

good way to put it!

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:28 pm

The Patroit needs to be out on the trails disproving all the disbelievers.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:49 pm

tonycrd wrote:

jason thompson wrote:

tonycrd wrote:

I don't get it. People get a hard on over a VW Touareg or a Porsche Cayenne, both cannot do this.

I get what people see in the VW
it is the 33* approach and depart angles with the air rid spring ,28* with out
a 4.56 final drive with a 2.66 to 1 T-case and the smallest engine has 280 HP and the thing don't out weigh the KJ by more than 500#
oh and something about 0-60 in under 8 seconds @ 130 mph with the V8
and just for the record they both can do what the pat in the pics is doing only with much greater ease and in way more comfort

You forgot to mention they both come with 'Z' rated tires, you couldn't even get of a wet golfcourse with those. And that the Porsche has all the driveline stuff from VW. And its as low to the ground as a VW Golf. Forget about any ground clearance. Who needs a 0-60 in 8 secs in a 4x4? IMO those things are all show no go. I mean no disrespect, I just think they are not ofroad vehicles and they are not supersportscars. They are something inbetween.

tony my boy you should go check out the VW web site
that bad daddy can get almost 12" with the air ride set to the max
and as far as tires look at what the KJ comes with or better yet 1 little fact that many people dont know
the standard tires on a TJ Sahara are only a B load range so lets not down tires as they can be changed

loosvelt · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:45 pm

Hey Troy,

Besides the Transmission, what else makes the 04+ KJ and KK more of a mall crawler? Just curious.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:50 pm

loosvelt wrote:

Hey Troy,

Besides the Transmission, what else makes the 04+ KJ and KK more of a mall crawler? Just curious.

When they realized the KJ was being bought by non wheelers and not used for the original idea.The KJ was originally built to be more offroad worthy then the XJ,stronger unibody and such.The KJ was the last all new Jeep that did the Rubicon trail in stock form to earn the Jeep nameplate.In ;04-'05 they started to market the KJ to the more suburban life and not so much the hard core life like the TJ.

loosvelt · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:55 pm

Ok,

But that is marketing, what about hardware (besides the transmission)

Gopher · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:31 pm

Who here has actually been wheeling in a Patriot? Raise your hand :wink:

Let's get some real world research on the Patriot before we all start bashing it as completely off road incapable. It may not be a JK or a KJ, but it's still a Jeep; let's see what it can do.

And are we starting to turn on our own KJ brethren who bought "mall crawlers" after '04? :roll:

Albert · **Posted:** Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:38 pm

loosvelt wrote:

Hey Troy,

Besides the Transmission, what else makes the 04+ KJ and KK more of a mall crawler? Just curious.

Troy.....please explain as I also wasn't aware of an 04+MY change in off road ability..

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:24 am

Albert wrote:

loosvelt wrote:

Hey Troy,

Besides the Transmission, what else makes the 04+ KJ and KK more of a mall crawler? Just curious.

Troy.....please explain as I also wasn't aware of an 04+MY change in off road ability..

There isn't,it was a marketing change for the KJ was all.All KJ's are as the same offroad,Jeep hust took how they marketed them a different direction then originally started off with.

Quote:

Gopher

Who here has actually been wheeling in a Patriot? Raise your hand Let's get some real world research on the Patriot before we all start bashing it as completely off road incapable. It may not be a JK or a KJ, but it's still a Jeep; let's see what it can do.

I have wheeled with one,I won't offend anyone else by saying what I thought of it's wheeling performance.

Gopher · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:47 am

That's cool that you wheeled with one. I stand corrected :oops:

. I guess that makes me the jerk. Did it have a lot of problems on the trail? Could it be a fun vehicle if you know its limits and don't expect to follow the big dogs everywhere?

1300ZUK · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:10 am

sleeve84028 wrote:

The Patroit needs to be out on the trails disproving all the disbelievers.

or falling apart on the entrance to proper off-road setting.

Patriots only say jeep on them. they don't actually mean for them to go off-road :roll:

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:24 am

Man, lets all just roll the clock back to 2001 when the Liberty came out. OMG the Liberty has IFS - It will fall apart as soon as it hits a rock. OH NO! Those leather seats weren't ment to go off roading... There's not enough ground clearance for it to clear a parking curb. You're going to buy a girl's Jeep. You'll have to forgive me but I thought LOST was created for us "outsider" Jeep owners who don't have to fit in and own a Wrangler.

Something different comes along and everyone say's that it's not good enough. I am sorry but you guys are all acting like we were treated when the KJ first came out.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:25 am

Good luck with the project and keep us informed. Did you get the off-raod package? I read that it was at least an 1 or 1.5 inches higher than base model. There have been pictures posted on the web of the Patriot off-roading. It sure was more capable than anything in its class. If I didn't tow I would consider a Patriot as the price of diesel is killing me. $3.40 gal 40 cents higher than RUG. Now if I wanted a rally car I would have a Subaru.

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:03 am

Kjfishman, yes I do have the off-road package and yes it does add to its height and ground clearance. You'll see blow that I am attaching a photo of me measuring its current clearance.

sleeve84028, thanks for the support. I figured if anyone would understand my redheaded step child situation it would be a KJ owner, maybe not a KK owner but a KJ owner... wow, was I wrong.

Gopher I agree its cool he gave one a chance too bad he didn't know anything about what he jumped into and I'll explain more in a minute.

tjkj2002 wrote:

Unibody,when I measured the ground clearence from one yesterday I wouldn't want to take those on a gravel road,man what a hack job with the unibody(okay for the street only) and what a mess of junk all over the under side,no way to protect all that junk.By the way a limited Patriot with the 17" rims has a measured 6 5/8" ground clearance.

tjkj2002, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy and I am sure when it comes to the Liberty your probably one of "the go to guys" here on lost. In fact I am sure you could even be a cool guy. But when it comes to the Patriot you may want to research, then read, then measure, then post. This method will keep you from looking like an @$#%. There are many options available for the Patriot as there are for a Liberty, and I would almost bet the one you measure was either not a 4x4 or did not have the off-road package or worse, maybe it didn't have either. These are options and are not standard on all Patriots, or even all Limited Edition Patriots as that just includes the leather and silver bumper appliqués. What you say is true about lack of ground clearance of any Patriot especially a (FWD or 4x2 model) with out the Off Road package. Now lets add the Off Road Package to a 4x4 model. It comes with 65 series tires off-road tires rather than 60 series tires and stiffer, taller springs. This adds 1" of clearance over a 4x4 and obviously more to a 4x2. Here is a photo to prove the issue.

So, that should stop the arguments of clearance and the fact that I will easily get 12" of clearance. The only thing you have me on so far is that I do not have a transfer case. But alot of that is now taken care electronically via hill descent control, traction control, etc... However I do not plan on going on any trails higher in difficulty than a 2.5 and if you recall I said this is my "Gateway Jeep" as in gateway drugs... I am hooked and will probably when I move back to the states either buy a JK/KK/KJ to have more capability and fun.

501 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:09 pm

Like I said in my earlier post Jim "It's your JEEP, Lift it, trick it, skid it, wheel it, mud it, just have fun with it!"

I'd have no problem wheeling with a Patriot, Ford, Toyota, Chevy, CJ, TJ, KK, NJ, Pj, JJ, or any other letter combo or make people can come up with. The object to this sport in my book, is to get off the couch have some fun!

If your ever in or near northern Indiana and get the itch to wheel, email and I'll do my best to hook up and do some mudding with you. I'm not a rock crawler, but I like to hit the mud and wooded areas when I can find one.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:18 pm

Jeep Jim wrote:

Kjfishman, yes I do have the off-road package and yes it does add to its height and ground clearance. You'll see blow that I am attaching a photo of me measuring its current clearance.

sleeve84028, thanks for the support. I figured if anyone would understand my redheaded step child situation it would be a KJ owner, maybe not a KK owner but a KJ owner... wow, was I wrong.

Gopher I agree its cool he gave one a chance too bad he didn't know anything about what he jumped into and I'll explain more in a minute.

tjkj2002 wrote:

Unibody,when I measured the ground clearence from one yesterday I wouldn't want to take those on a gravel road,man what a hack job with the unibody(okay for the street only) and what a mess of junk all over the under side,no way to protect all that junk.By the way a limited Patriot with the 17" rims has a measured 6 5/8" ground clearance.

tjkj2002, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable guy and I am sure when it comes to the Liberty your probably one of "the go to guys" here on lost. In fact I am sure you could even be a cool guy. But when it comes to the Patriot you may want to research, then read, then measure, then post. This method will keep you from looking like an @$#%. There are many options available for the Patriot as there are for a Liberty, and I would almost bet the one you measure was either not a 4x4 or did not have the off-road package or worse, maybe it didn't have either. These are options and are not standard on all Patriots, or even all Limited Edition Patriots as that just includes the leather and silver bumper appliqués. What you say is true about lack of ground clearance of any Patriot especially a (FWD or 4x2 model) with out the Off Road package. Now lets add the Off Road Package to a 4x4 model. It comes with 65 series tires off-road tires rather than 60 series tires and stiffer, taller springs. This adds 1" of clearance over a 4x4 and obviously more to a 4x2. Here is a photo to prove the issue.

So, that should stop the arguments of clearance and the fact that I will easily get 12" of clearance. The only thing you have me on so far is that I do not have a transfer case. But alot of that is now taken care electronically via hill descent control, traction control, etc... However I do not plan on going on any trails higher in difficulty than a 2.5 and if you recall I said this is my "Gateway Jeep" as in gateway drugs... I am hooked and will probably when I move back to the states either buy a JK/KK/KJ to have more capability and fun.

So is that the lowest point under it? Also you are going to gain 4 inches? How ?? Please explain 2 inches maybe in a lift, maybe an inch in tires but thats about it,

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:40 pm

First let me say yes I orignally had missed this low point when I measured it the other night... I didn't notice the cross member was lower than the make shift frame rail. So, yes that is the lowest point under my Jeep other than part of the rear exhaust which will be switched out for something more performance oriented. But I measured several places and that cross member between the front and back seat is the lowest point. It's currently sitting at 8 and 3/8th", the RRO lift is 2.25" and I am adding the biggest tires possible now that won't rub which should bring it to 3" total lift putting me to about 11.5" clearance.

If I decide that I really need the additional .5" to .75" I can try to add a spacer between the spring and the spring mount give it the additional lift I want.

Edvalencia · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:56 pm

sleeve84028 wrote:

Man, lets all just roll the clock back to 2001 when the Liberty came out. OMG the Liberty has IFS - It will fall apart as soon as it hits a rock. OH NO! Those leather seats weren't ment to go off roading... There's not enough ground clearance for it to clear a parking curb. You're going to buy a girl's Jeep. You'll have to forgive me but I thought LOST was created for us "outsider" Jeep owners who don't have to fit in and own a Wrangler.

Something different comes along and everyone say's that it's not good enough. I am sorry but you guys are all acting like we were treated when the KJ first came out.

Sleeve has hit the nail on the head.
I applaud Jeep Jim for being a pioneer in modifying his JEEP.

Think about it, what if we all listened to the XJ & TJ owners and never bothered to modify our KJ's? It's taken us years of trial and error to get our rigs to where they are today.

Wheel what you got remember? :wink:

dloc_jeep_KJ · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:25 pm

i agree. no the Pat. will never be a rubicon but it can do trails that it sounds like he wants to do. so go for it and i cant wait to see pics of it and some off roading shots.

Ok, don't laugh...

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