Diesel 62 cents highr than RUG !

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:37 pm

New record this morning, $107.46 per barrel. And they're talking confidently of $150/barrel by midsummer.

Refiners have lost too much profit margin now, they're saying expect RUG to increase 20 to 30 more cents per gallon in the next 2 to 3 weeks so they can play catch-up on their quarterly profits.

If RUG goes up another 30 cents, you can probably expect diesel to be well over $4/gallon.

One indication of how much speculation is driving the price - Goldman Sachs is saying that if speculation continues to drive the market, we could see oil at $200/barrel in a couple of years - but that if normal market forces kick back in, it could drop back down to $60/barrel, even allowing for the currently weak dollar.

That's one heck of a price range - 60 to 200 per barrel. Basically, they're telling us that Wall Street is going to set the price of oil whereever they bloody well feel like, and the rest of us can just suck it up.

One thing they noted about the trading patterns - the speculators and investment funds, those that are simply trading paper and don't need physical oil - are taking long term positions and betting on oil continuing to go up in price. Those that actually need the real product - refiners, distributers, etc - are taking short positions and betting on oil going down in price.

The big investors are funneling thier money into oil and commodities because every other sector on Wall Street right now looks like crap with a recession looming.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

One of National Public Radio's shows had a segment on managed funds for pensions/banks/money managers, etc... now investing in oil as a commodity, given that the rate of return on other short-term investments is so low right now. This in turn is creating a "bubble" with oil over-valued. Upside, the bubble will eventually burst. Downside, it could take years and when it does it could severely disrupt the US fuel supply.

Where is that good old Stalinist regulation when you need it?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:25 pm

Here in the Chicago suburbs the Gasoline is a summer Boutique blend and the price has gone higher than the Diesel price over the past few years. We will see if the ULSD will be higher than Boutique gasoline this summer or not. When you get out of the metro area the price on reg drops more than Diesel due to the summer Chicago Boutique blend.

Steve

cerich · **Posted:** Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:03 pm

well meanwhile the CRD is parked and I'm putting the miles on my 2000 mazda B2500 Pickup (with 150,000 on the odo) that gets 22 miles a gallon (.1431 cents per mile) highway on RUG. The CRD gets 23.5mpg(.1655 cents per mile) on my daily commute. The extra .50 for Diesel over RUG. That is a savings of $6.7295 a week and just under $350 for the year. Of course the Mazda is well paid for and insured already, it wouldn't be worth it otherwise.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:25 pm

Here's the latest from the 3 ring circus on oil prices -

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/futures-movers-crude-falls-us/story.aspx?guid=%7B18D676B4%2D1A11%2D419D%2DBE39%2DB54C7FF36AB2%7D&dist=hplatest

Crude oil inventory up over 6 million barrels. Gasoline inventory went up AGAIN by 1.7 million barrels (what's that now, a 16 or 17 year high?), distillates dropped by 1.2 million when they were expecting over a 2 million barrel drop, refinery output dropped by nearly a full percent to 85%.

Result? Oil prices squeaked down by about a dollar. Last week, when they showed a drop in crude inventory alone that was less than 1/3 the size of the above increase, that was reason enough for them to jack up the price $5 in one day.

I'm starting to give credence to one theory I've heard proposed - when the Fed adds "liquidity" as they did yesterday to the tune of $200 billion, they're essentially just printing more money with nothing to back it up - except globally traded commodities that are valued in dollars.

In other words, they're printing money in an attempt to find an easy fix to the subprime mortgage and credit mess, to prevent the banking system and economy from collapsing, and the only thing they have to back it up is the price of oil. If the bubble pops and oil drops back down to $60/barrel, where even oil industry analysts say it should be, the dollar becomes a worthless piece of paper, and we end up with a 1930's style worldwide recession.

Any way it turns out, it looks as those of us at the end of the economic food chain are going to get left holding the bag and paying for it one way or another.

silverCRD06 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:06 pm **Posts:** 7

Paid $4.39 per gallon today, was $1 more than premium.

hawk521 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:38 pm

Does anyone else recall Cheney's cabal of oil industry executives which met early in the administration's first year where they defined the country's ongoing energy policies behind closed doors? No public disclosure ever came of that meeting...

Perhaps they have been successful beyond their wildest dreams.

Certainly things have boosted oil industry profits into the stratosphere. And curiously nobody is holding them accountable for any of it. Its got to be the darn kook-aid guys - just gotta be...

Simply food for thought. Nobody can really know the truth of the matter since the meeting, the attendees, and the policy itself were classified as a national security secret by Cheney. But I say follow the money... Who's getting rich at the expense of who?

Remember one thing. Just because it isn't called a tax doesn't mean they aren't taxing us... And sadly, this "tax" isn't going into the public coffers to help pay for our gov't expenses.

hatchetman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:29 am

The democratic leaders of the country have a vested interest in high fuel prices. Remember when the claimed they'd do something about high gas prices if they were elected into power in 06 :evil:

? High fuel prices will almost certainly give them both the White House and Congress this fall. We ain't seen nothing yet in regard to high gas/diesel prices!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:22 am

Most States have a sales tax based upon a percentage, as the price goes up so does their revenue. Often this increased revenue goes to items that have nothing to do with roads, road maintenance or services that support those who use the roads such as law enforcement, firefighting, or EMS.

In this day of the Internet, every cent that is taken in or spent by State or Local Government should be posted on a web page that everyone has access to. On the Federal Level Breakdown for security type departments such as DOD, FBI, Home Land Security; posting the general budget information would be good enough. On the other hand; DOT, IRS and other service related departments should be required to post the disposition of every cent on a web site accessible to every US Citizen, even Citizens employed by News Media.

In the few communities where posting the revenues and expenditures is required, there suddenly seams to be enough money and stunts like the one pulled by the now former Governor Spitzer of New York who transfered State money to prostitutes are much harder to pull off. I do wonder how much of the fuel tax in New York went to those hookers, instead of the roads.

Why did I post this, honesty is more common place when there is accountability. We all complain about the fact that the Oil Companies are putting it to us, but the Governments get a free pass. If we have a way to keep our Government inline, those who run Oil Companies, News Media, and others will also be kept inline.

Steve

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:27 pm

But but but... That would be ACCOUNTABILITY and OVERSIGHT... Which Fearless Leader has already said isn't needed. Business and government will just naturally do what is right. What is really needed in this time of fiscal pain is to make his money-pisssing-away tax cuts permanent, so we can listen to a louder sound of our economy being flushed down the drain.

But we don't need ANY oversight. Thats bad.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

I'm just going to point out that congress has no power to set or regulate fuel prices. At best they can threaten oil company subsidies, but that really dosen't do any good since pulling them would just raise the price of gas...

hawk521 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:36 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Most States have a sales tax based upon a percentage, as the price goes up so does their revenue....

Steve

Really?

The Federal tax on fuel (gasoline and diesel) is per gallon. I don't know about "most states" but here in North Carolina the fuel tax rate is a fixed amount per gallon. Does not change with price increases nor does it fall with price decreases (if such ever happens). Of course the legislature could change the tax amount by law - but that doesn't happen very often.

And FYI - in NC revenue collected via fuel tax IS earmarked for highway maintenance and improvement. Not that they have never robbed one fund to bail out another budget area...but barring unusual circumstances fuel tax is supposed to go toward its intended purpose.

Which states impose a percentage tax on fuel? I can see where that would exascerbate the price rise...

EDIT: I stand somewhat corrected. In fact, in NC the tax rate (while imposed by the gallon) is adjusted quarterly based on wholesale fuel prices. So in that respect Steve is correct - increases in wholesale fuel prices do increase the tax rate. Currently in NC, the tax is right at $.30 a gallon. I don't know what other states do - but perhaps the tax does ride up with the fuel cost...

hatchetman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:46 pm

WV imposes a variable tax on fuel. As the wholesale price increases, the the tax per gallon increases. The thought process is that less fuel will be bought as wholesale price increases. The tax per gallon also decreases as the wholesale price decreases. I believe they reset this price around the 1st of every year by taking an average yearly wholesale price. Just one of the weird/strange laws in WV. I work in WV and live in OH. The people in WV have a differant mind-set. One the few places that sex with cousins and siblings isn't unusual! :evil:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:16 pm

..... a percentage, counties and locals collect sales tax as well. New Hampshire is one state that comes to mind that has no sales tax so they don't do the added rip off on fuel. New York, home of now former Governor Eliot Spitzer has the highest prices I have seen in New England, let us know if I this has changed.

Making government accountable for every cent would bring back room deals into the open and make them more honest.

Steve

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

warp2diesel wrote:

Making government accountable for every cent would bring back room deals into the open and make them more honest.

Steve

If private investment firms speculate on oil futures, creating a bubble and driving up the price of the commodity, how does making government accountable for the 25-75 cents per gallon in taxes do much about $4 a gallon fuel?

Wouldn't the solution be intervention to halt the speculation on a resource that is literally the lifeblood of the economy? And investing that tax revenue for long-term alternatives (more efficient vehicles, alternative fuels, alternatives to auto transport?)

In my state, fuel taxes go to road maintenance and construction. Would be a bit hypocritical of me to complain about those taxes while driving my CRD on public roads (though I agree, the spending should be open and transparent so the public knows it is being spent wisely).

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Good points there Threeweight. And its not just oil based produccts being affected, the commodities run is also part of whats driving up food and precious metals prices, which impacts electronics(traces on circuit boards are copper and in some cases gold). Every basic item is being boosted in price right now, its frustrating since it appears to be mostly speculation...

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:21 am

And we all can simply by driving like what we put in the tank costs over $4 a gallon :wink:

I further think we will see our CRD's getting better MPG's right after our next fill up :lol:

Anyone with semi experience :?:

Just wondering what mileage difference a semi driving at 55 MPH (Ohio's truck speed limit) and the same truck driving at 65 MPH. If we were all to cut back 10% it would make a difference. The high price alone will cut consumption by people modifing their habits. Anyone noticed how conserative the Tahoes, Expeditions and Suburbans are being driven?

Supply and demand will eventually take control however we are part of a global economy and printing more paper money will not help a thing :cry:

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

I know I see a fuel savings running 55MPH over 65MPH... 60 is a sweet spot, but this is based off my TDI.

We haven't had the Libby long enough to compare.

The principals are the same, so it sound see a boost in economy.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:41 am

kcfoxie wrote:

I know I see a fuel savings running 55MPH over 65MPH... 60 is a sweet spot, but this is based off my TDI.

We haven't had the Libby long enough to compare.

The principals are the same, so it sound see a boost in economy.

I think the CRD's spot is 62 when the it reaches the final shift point. You can then slide back to 60 before it shifts back down though. These are post F37 figures

That's the only thing I like about the F37 flash. My 06 shifted earlier for the first 2 weeks I owned it and droaned at lower speeds. (I secertly got the F37 flash when I took it in for a coolant leak and they flashed the BCM for running down the battery) Later when they gave me the F31 I got a different F37 and now it revs to 4 k when the little peddle is down before it shifts, that Part I don't like :evil:

I drove my 99.5 (A4) jetta between 65 and 70 MPH as a rule and I once got two tanks in a row that were a tad over 70 MPG :wink:

But everything was right and the plannets were aligned :lol:

Around here the fuel is crap and that hurts mpg's a lot :cry:

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Reflex wrote:

Good points there Threeweight. And its not just oil based produccts being affected, the commodities run is also part of whats driving up food and precious metals prices, which impacts electronics(traces on circuit boards are copper and in some cases gold). Every basic item is being boosted in price right now, its frustrating since it appears to be mostly speculation...

Sometimes I think these were the same "expert" speculators who drove up house prices. They must of got bailed out and are now the "experts" in oil commodities!

Diesel 62 cents highr than RUG !

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