this just can't be...

zrtwooo · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:44 am

so i don't understand why every other car on the planet can benifit from an upgraded cold air intake kit designed by the bigtime manufactures but my lil oil burner doesen't? make that make sense to me please.... :?:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:58 am

What benefit are you looking for? You have to wieght the benefits against the drrawbacks. Usually you get more abrasive particles thru the intake system with "freeflow" systems. Some don't block off engine heat and give no benefit except intake noise.

Uffe · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:45 am

Cold air meets 500C turbocharger, goodbye coldness!

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

For that matter, there isn't a vehicle in the world that I've seen that can't do some form of CAI with a cone filter, and enough silicon tubing.... or in a pinch/on the cheap, dryer vent hosing.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:16 am

You gotta think of it this way...
Your engine is turbocharged and has the potential to draw in a heck of a
lot more air than the engine will ever need. (however, this is regulated by
the computer)
Doesn't matter what temp the intake air is, its gonna get heated anyway
due to the turbo compressing the air. Then, its gonna get cooled when
the air passes through the intercooler.

So, the best way to maintain optimum performance is by keeping dirt and
crap from passing through the turbo, intercooler, and into the engine.
And the best way to do that is by keeping the air filter as clean and dry as
possible.

Also, its a good idea to do something to prevent oil from getting into the
intake from the CCV. It would also be a good idea to pull out the
intercooler and clean all the oil and crap that has already accumulated in
there.

Timmaah! · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:31 am

zrtwooo wrote:

so i don't understand why every other car on the planet can benifit from an upgraded cold air intake kit designed by the bigtime manufactures but my lil oil burner doesen't? make that make sense to me please.... :?:

First off, you already have a cold air intake. Air enters your intake just to the left of your right front headlight. Next, over most of the fueling range there is excess oxygen so a tiny amount of additional air doesn't do anything. The amount of additional air due to an aftermarket intake is indeed tiny compared to the massive amout of air forced through the stock intake and exhaust by the turbo. Last, an aftermarket intake that sets under the hood will pick up more warm air than the stock intake.

dgeist · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:33 am

I'd much rather have an upgraded free-flowing intercooler with better heat dissipation characteristics than a cold-air any day. What would Banks need to do to make a CRD intercooler :wink:

DocB · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:19 am

He would need more deposit slips from the bank.

naturist · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:59 pm

zrtwooo wrote:

so i don't understand why every other car on the planet can benifit from an upgraded cold air intake kit designed by the bigtime manufactures but my lil oil burner doesen't? make that make sense to me please.... :?:

A 5 gallon bucket of water may seem like a lot to you, but it is insignificant when dumped into an ocean.

Because your CRD is both a diesel and turbocharged, it already draws in WAAAY more air than is needed for combustion and, as has already been noted, heats what it does draw in to boot. Simply put, an upgraded cold air intake kit is basically puting sequins to a frog. No matter how many you add, it is still a frog.

The same amount of money that will do zippo toward increased performance with a cold air intake will bring major gains in power by chipping or increasing injector size to take advantage of the excess air you already get.

But heck, it's your jeep, and your money; do whatever you want. But you are still sticking sequins on a frog.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:00 pm

Your engine (and mine) is an air pump - having no severe restriction in the intake path, such as a throttle plate, it will displace 2.8L of air in two revolutions of the crankshaft at idle, cruise, and WOT - (FYI: 1 gallon = 3.79 liters) - on the other hand, 2.8L spark-infested engines will pump full dispacement only at full WOT, throttle plate 90deg perpendicular to air flow, which means that at idle they're prolly only pumping 200cc's of air, 30mph ~ 600cc's, 50mph ~ 1000cc's - considering the disproportionate amount of time they run at near-closed throttle as compared to WOT, even a window screen provides some protection at those anaemic air flows - and explains why an air filter may last 10kmi\year for them, but require replacement more often for a Diesel engine

Paper and oiled-mesh cone filters, which have somehow become symbols of male prowess even tho most are placed directly in the super-heated propwash from the radiator (not much intelligent thought involved there, right?), offer greater protection to those engines than to Diesel engines, specifically due to that wimpy air flow.

Few months back, Diesel Power mag did a scientific study on a HO Dodge Cummins truck, comparing the factory oem filter system to those ever-popular cone-type add-ons, with all their fancy see-thru acrylic boxes and various concatenations of 'cold-air' plumbing - the oem system won out in every case, proving better at supplying cool filtered air to the 5.9L HO Cummins engine - and remember, DP mag is vendor-supported, incl those 'cold-air system' vendors.

Mainly due to real estate limitations, the KJ airbox is placed directly behind the radiator bulkhead, with direct 'cold-air' flow thru the grille - you know it must be direct because of the often-reported complaint of 'wet filter element' - I'd say cool air flow is already fairly direct, if rain-water has no problem navigating the ductwork to the airbox - water is somewhat denser than air, near as I can remember, and would have considerable difficulty navigating any convoluted air-restricting maze which would result in 'hot-air' flow.

When I was a young lad, long ago tho not so far away, in another century and another time, I seem to remember cleaning wire screen\mesh air filters, then soaking the mesh in motor oil B4 placing the mesh back in the screen in the housing and replacing the lid - they functioned extremely well, tho the cleaning procedure was somewhat time-consuming, and very meshy, as it were.

K&N fuzz-coated wire-mesh air filter systems are direct descendents of those early-times filters, with convenience of modern spray-can application of the oil required for static-entrapment of the silicates, pollen, and other damaging components in air. Designed for those engines, with their minimal air flow at all normal operating conditions, oiled wire mesh filters become very unsuitable for Diesel engines where real estate is limited, needing to be much larger to supply max air flow at all operating conditions, way moreso in Turbo application, where the 2.8L effective displacement can double and triple, depending on Boost pressures - 15psig Boost is Baro x 2, 30psig is Baro x 3, 45psig is Baro x 4 (psig = Baro, or 0psia +15 - thus 45psig is actually Baro x 4, or 60psia)
At Baro, engine will pump 2.8L - WOT at 15psig Boost, effective displacement is 5.6L - 30psig Boost is 8.4L - add filtration and fuel to suit

At those pressures\flowrates, the turbo will suck all the oil right outta the fuzz-coated wire-screen matrices, rendering the filtration ineffective in short order - in that scenario, a paper air filter is more effective than the oiled-fuzz type for street application, given the real estate limitations

However, in racing apps on tarmac, you would use that type filter on the strip to provide greater air flow, as there is not much silicate in the air with no traffic ahead of you to stir it up off the tarmac (if you're winning, of course - losers are losers, eh!)

In dirt-track pulling events, where tremendous quantities of air-borne silicates are generated by spinning tires and are a crowd-pleasing element of the sport, a much larger oiled-element filter would be required, commensurate with WOT\high Boost air flow requirements to get the flowrate without losing all the oil, as progress is slow and dust is plentiful - after each run, you would need to clean and re-oil the element for continued full protection - or, if using paper-type filters, use a larger paper element for more area for greater flow, replaced after each run - requirement as established from regular oil analysis.

If it were me, I'd drive to\from the event with the oem filter, install the high-flow race-specific element at the track, remove it at the end of the event for the drive home - but, that's just me, and how I am.

So, why would you think we don't have a cold air system, or that it doesn't contribute to efficiency in our CRD engine, eh?

zrtwooo · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:01 pm

well that was a lot of info to take in....i was looking to allow the lil turbo to spool up faster/easier, thats all. i'm aware thet here in the az dezert there is no cold air 8 months of the year, period! thx for the usefull info from everyone!!!
Mike

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:47 pm

The cooler the intake air, the denser it is - the denser the air, the slower the turbo will spool up, as it takes more work to compress thick air than thin air - however, you could open up the exhaust by replacing the restrictive muffler, allowing the available exhaust energy to work the turbo better - could also do the ORM, better yet, the SEGR, to get cool dense clean air back in the intake - also, install EDGE or similar power-enchancing module to get some real power real quick - gotta be careful, tho, because your walt disney productions torque convertor won't last long in that power-rich environment - try the muffler and the ORM thing, tho, for some cheap power upgrades

zrtwooo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:30 am

orm??? segr???? :shock:

Uffe · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:47 am

ORM is off-road mod. Remove the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor on your airbox and the EGR valve won't open and your "Check Engine Light" known here as CEL will light up.

With the SEGR kit (solution to EGR) you will not open the EGR valve and you won't get the CEL. A win-win situation.

EGR is exhaust gas recirculation. Exhaust gas is recirculated into your precious intake, to keep emissions and power down while keeping soot contamination throughout the intake path past turbo up. Very thoughtful indeed.

zrtwooo · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:44 pm

is there a thread to explain how to do the SEGR?

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:57 pm

zrtwooo wrote:

is there a thread to explain how to do the SEGR?

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=27359

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:24 pm

zrtwooo wrote:

is there a thread to explain how to do the SEGR?

Steve gave you the actual install...

this is for the building part if you choose to do it yourself and if
you have a few hours to read it all...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23033

zrtwooo · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:20 am

wow thats way past my pay scale... im not in the ballpark for doing that kind of mod....

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:54 am

zrtwooo wrote:

wow thats way past my pay scale... im not in the ballpark for doing that kind of mod....

it is not as hard as it looks to be... trust me.... unless you have the shakes that
crd liberty makes light of in another thread... believe me it looks more daunting
than it actually is.

this just can't be...

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