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 Post subject: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:47 pm 
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Location: Tolleson, Arizona
Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico (Rocky Point) was the location.
Was there for a four day weekend and I heard D2 was much lower than in the States (on the TDI Forum) but WOW!
So this got me thinking- How can this same diesel fuel be so much cheaper and why? And of course this got me angry on how much we pay here. I checked the Pemex website recently and they claim 45 cetane and max 150-200 ppm sulphur. They say there fuel will be 10 ppm or lower by the end of 2009.
Performance:
Smoke - None
Power - unchanged to "feels" better
Ecomomy- improved 3-4 MPG's
Regrets - none
Confidence- high ( I checked around by asking locals which station had the freshest/best fuel)
No clogged filters, no failed injectors, NO problems what so ever.
Its too bad I live 150 miles from the border or I would be there on a regular basis.
I know thier oil industry is government owned but at least in this case the government takes care of thier citizens diesel wise.

BTW 85-87 RUG was approx $3.50 a gallon--

Roland

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:50 pm 
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Silverdiesel wrote:
Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico (Rocky Point) was the location.
Was there for a four day weekend and I heard D2 was much lower than in the States (on the TDI Forum) but WOW!
So this got me thinking- How can this same diesel fuel be so much cheaper and why? And of course this got me angry on how much we pay here. I checked the Pemex website recently and they claim 45 cetane and max 150-200 ppm sulphur. They say there fuel will be 10 ppm or lower by the end of 2009.
Performance:
Smoke - None
Power - unchanged to "feels" better
Ecomomy- improved 3-4 MPG's
Regrets - none
Confidence- high ( I checked around by asking locals which station had the freshest/best fuel)
No clogged filters, no failed injectors, NO problems what so ever.
Its too bad I live 150 miles from the border or I would be there on a regular basis.
I know thier oil industry is government owned but at least in this case the government takes care of thier citizens diesel wise.

BTW 85-87 RUG was approx $3.50 a gallon--

Roland



First off, its not ULSD.

Second. I'll gladly pay what diesel costs in this country considering our infrastructure compared to what I would get at $2.11 in mexico.

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:53 pm 
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Silverdiesel wrote:
How can this same diesel fuel be so much cheaper and why? And of course this got me angry on how much we pay here. I checked the Pemex website recently and they claim 45 cetane and max 150-200 ppm sulphur. They say there fuel will be 10 ppm or lower by the end of 2009.


Permex is a state-owned oil company (belongs to the Mexican government) and highly highly subsidizes fuel for Mexican business consumption. We could do the same here, but I don't think the idea would be very popular.

They have to get the sulfur down or companies like VW and Mercedes won't be able to sell their new diesels there.

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:46 am 
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Sir Sam wrote:


First off, its not ULSD.

Second. I'll gladly pay what diesel costs in this country considering our infrastructure compared to what I would get at $2.11 in mexico.


Have you ever been to mexco? They have a fuel infrastructure equal to if not better than the us. Contrary to popular belief their gas stations are very clean and the fuel is high quality. I wish that we still had LSD availible here (better economy + longer mechnical component life). Wouldn't it be great if we had a federal minimum cetane of 45 as well?

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:06 am 
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nursecosmo wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:


First off, its not ULSD.

Second. I'll gladly pay what diesel costs in this country considering our infrastructure compared to what I would get at $2.11 in mexico.


Have you ever been to mexco? They have a fuel infrastructure equal to if not better than the us. Contrary to popular belief their gas stations are very clean and the fuel is high quality. I wish that we still had LSD availible here (better economy + longer mechnical component life). Wouldn't it be great if we had a federal minimum cetane of 45 as well?


One of the things I remember of Mexico was the traffic and roads sucking. Thats a step down in infrastructure I don't want for my country.

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 am 
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Sir Sam wrote:

One of the things I remember of Mexico was the traffic and roads sucking. Thats a step down in infrastructure I don't want for my country.


That is why everyone there should have a jeep :) No but seriously, the roads down there are better than ever. The point is that if a developing country can offer higher quality diesel than we have at half the price I think that the richest country on the plannet could do the same.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:12 am 
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The US gets a large percentage of our crude from Mexico. Mexican diesel is also very high in paraffin from what I have read.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 am 
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The closest I've been to Mexico was my last trip to EPCOT. The boat ride through the Aztec temple was pretty chill.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:38 am 
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Interesting, $2.11 a gallon.... what a novel concept.

What is it today? $4.21?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:58 am 
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dieseltoyz wrote:
The US gets a large percentage of our crude from Mexico. Mexican diesel is also very high in paraffin from what I have read.
Hence the high cetane number.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:10 pm 
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If its so great down there, why are they all coming here?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:17 pm 
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RTStabler51 wrote:
If its so great down there, why are they all coming here?


*cough*yareally*cough*

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Start Drilling

By Robert J. Samuelson
WashingtonPost.com
Wednesday, April 30, 2008; A19

What to do about oil? First it went from $60 to $80 a barrel, then from $80 to $100 and now to $120. Perhaps we can persuade OPEC to raise production, as some senators suggest; but this seems unlikely. The truth is that we're almost powerless to influence today's prices. We are because we didn't take sensible actions 10 or 20 years ago. If we persist, we will be even worse off in a decade or two. The first thing to do: Start drilling.

It may surprise Americans to discover that the United States is the third-largest oil producer, behind Saudi Arabia and Russia. We could be producing more, but Congress has put large areas of potential supply off-limits. These include the Atlantic and Pacific coasts and parts of Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico. By government estimates, these areas may contain 25 billion to 30 billion barrels of oil (against about 30 billion barrels of proven U.S. reserves today) and 80 trillion cubic feet or more of natural gas (compared with about 200 tcf of proven reserves).

What keeps these areas closed are exaggerated environmental fears, strong prejudice against oil companies and sheer stupidity. Americans favor both "energy independence" and cheap fuel. They deplore imports -- who wants to pay foreigners? -- but oppose more production in the United States. Got it? The result is a "no-pain energy agenda that sounds appealing but has no basis in reality," writes Robert Bryce in "Gusher of Lies: The Dangerous Delusions of 'Energy Independence.' "

Unsurprisingly, all three major presidential candidates tout "energy independence." This reflects either ignorance (unlikely) or pandering (probable). The United States imports about 60 percent of its oil, up from 42 percent in 1990. We'll import lots more for the foreseeable future. The world uses 86 million barrels of oil a day, up from 67 mbd in 1990. The basic cause of exploding prices is that advancing demand has virtually exhausted the world's surplus production capacity, says analyst Douglas MacIntyre of the Energy Information Administration. Combined with a stingy OPEC, the result is predictable: Any unexpected rise in demand or threat to supply triggers higher prices.

The best we can do is to try to exert long-term influence on the global balance of supply and demand. Increase our supply. Restrain our demand. With luck, this might widen the worldwide surplus of production capacity. Producers would have less power to exact ever-higher prices, because there would be more competition among them to sell. OPEC loses some leverage; its members cheat. Congress took a small step last year by increasing fuel economy standards for new cars and light trucks from 25 to 35 miles per gallon by 2020. (And yes, we need a gradually rising fuel tax to create a strong market for more-efficient vehicles.)

Increasing production also is important. Output from older fields, including Alaska's North Slope, is declining. Although production from restricted areas won't make the United States self-sufficient, it might stabilize output or even reduce imports. No one knows exactly what's in these areas, because the exploratory work is old. Estimates indicate that production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge might equal almost 5 percent of present U.S. oil use.

Members of Congress complain loudly about high oil profits ($40.6 billion for Exxon Mobil last year) but frustrate those companies' desire to use those profits to explore and produce in the United States. Getting access to oil elsewhere is increasingly difficult. Governments own three-quarters or more of proven reserves. Perversely, higher prices discourage other countries from approving new projects. Flush with oil revenue, countries have less need to expand production. Undersupply and high prices then feed on each other.

But it's hard for the United States to complain that other countries limit access to their reserves when we're doing the same. If higher U.S. production reduced world prices, other countries might expand production. What they couldn't get from prices they'd try to get from greater sales.

On environmental grounds, the alternatives to more drilling are usually worse. Subsidies for ethanol made from corn have increased food prices and used scarce water, with few benefits. If oil is imported, it's vulnerable to tanker spills. By contrast, local production is probably safer. There were 4,000 platforms operating in the Gulf of Mexico when hurricanes Katrina and Rita hit. Despite extensive damage, there were no major spills, says Robbie Diamond of Securing America's Future Energy, an advocacy group.

Perhaps oil prices will drop when some long-delayed projects begin production or if demand slackens. But the basic problem will remain. Though dependent on foreign oil, we might conceivably curb the power of foreign producers. But this is not a task of a month or a year. It is a task of decades; new production projects take that long. If we don't start now, our future dependence and its dangers will grow. Count on it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:47 pm 
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John R. Lott, Jr.:
High Gas Prices Are Not Something New
FoxNews.com
Monday , May 12, 2008

By John R. Lott, Jr.

With oil prices closing above $125 a barrel of oil on Friday, angry politicians are blaming the higher prices on everything from speculators to greedy oil companies. Last week some Democratic Senators demanded “urgent action . . . to adequately investigate whether speculators are driving up prices.”

Democrats are proposing to protect the American people from “greedy oil traders who manipulate the market.” Senator Barack Obama wants price gouging by oil companies to be a federal crime.

Everyone wants lower prices, but many politicians seem unable to understand that speculators actually smooth out wild swings in prices. Speculators make profits by buying oil when the price is low and selling it when it is high, and doing that protects consumers. Tensions rose last week because of Venezuela financing Columbian terrorists. Columbia looked like it might retaliate and send troops into Venezuela, the world’s sixth largest oil exporter.

There was an obvious risk that Venezuela’s oil exports could be stopped. Oil prices increased immediately. They didn’t wait for the war to actually break out. By buying oil now in order to set it aside if supplies are interrupted if the conflict escalates, is good for consumers. Storing oil for then will prevent what would have been even higher prices. Politicians obviously thought speculators were unjustified to start bidding up prices. After all, war might never occur. Yet, if speculators didn’t do that and Venezuela's shipments are halted, the much bigger increase in oil prices would surely cause politicians to really call for the scalps of everyone in the oil business.

The speculators are taking a real risk with their own money. If no war occurs and prices fall, few in congress are going to shed tears over the money that the speculators would lose. If war breaks out and prices only rise a fraction of what they otherwise would have gone up, who is going to thank the speculators for a job well done?

Speculators are actually extremely accurate in predicting the future. But it is not just in oil prices.

Markets do a remarkably good job compared to polls and pundits in predicting election outcomes. In 2006, trading markets correctly predicted the outcome of every U.S. Senate race. In 2004, they correctly guessed the presidential vote in every state but Alaska. Similar accurate predictions have been seen in everything from how much money movies make to who will win sports league championships. Possibly all that isn’t too surprising when people put their own money at risk, but do politicians’ really want to compare the accuracy of their predictions with that?

Bidding up prices today also produces another benefit. Higher prices today reduce consumption and increase inventories and thus reduce how much prices will rise tomorrow. All this ensures that the overall increase in price will actually be less.

The possibility of higher prices when disasters strike also gives oil companies an incentive to put aside more oil to cover those emergencies. Storing oil is costly, and if we expect oil companies and speculators to bear those costs, you had better compensate them.

The irony is that letting the companies charge higher prices actually reduces customers total costs because there will be more gas available when the disaster strikes. Unfortunately, Venezuela’s risks are not the only production problems that have been occurring. Last week, Nigeria, the eighth larger oil exporter, faced rebel attacks on a major oil center. Over the longer run, the U.S. has refused to increase production of oil despite huge untapped reserves. While New York Sen. Charles Schumer and other Democrats lambast Saudi Arabia and other countries for not increasing oil production enough, these same politicians have consistently voted against any increase in U.S. oil production.

Senator Obama sees part of the solution in a massive windfall tax on American oil companies. Putting aside the fact that having politicians blame oil companies is a bit hypocritical — U.S. oil companies have paid more than three times in taxes to the government than they have earned in profits over the last 25 years — higher taxes on profits will reduce production and increase prices. A higher tax on profits will mean fewer investments in producing oil and that in turn will mean less production in the future.

Ironically, Democrats won the 2006 elections and took control of both the House and the Senate by promising they would reduce gas prices. Yet, with regular gas now selling above $3.67 a gallon, Americans can only longingly remember the average prices of about $2.20 a gallon that Democrats were complaining about in early November 2006. The Democrats’ bigger sin is that they seem to have no understanding of how markets work.

As Robert Samuelson recently pointed out, high gas prices have long been in the making. But punishing speculators and oil companies, while politically popular, will only hurt consumers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:23 pm 
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MOSFET wrote:
John R. Lott, Jr.:
High Gas Prices Are Not Something New
FoxNews.com
Monday , May 12, 2008

By John R. Lott, Jr.



John Lott, AKA Mary Rosh, has about as much credibility on energy issues as he does on gun control: http://www.whoismaryrosh.com/
Try another source besides Faux News.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:26 pm 
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Wobbly wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
John R. Lott, Jr.:
High Gas Prices Are Not Something New
FoxNews.com
Monday , May 12, 2008

By John R. Lott, Jr.



John Lott, AKA Mary Rosh, has about as much credibility on energy issues as he does on gun control: http://www.whoismaryrosh.com/
Try another source besides Faux News.

Wobbly


LOL @ Faux news.

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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:45 pm 
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nursecosmo wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:


First off, its not ULSD.

Second. I'll gladly pay what diesel costs in this country considering our infrastructure compared to what I would get at $2.11 in mexico.


Have you ever been to mexco? They have a fuel infrastructure equal to if not better than the us. Contrary to popular belief their gas stations are very clean and the fuel is high quality. I wish that we still had LSD availible here (better economy + longer mechnical component life). Wouldn't it be great if we had a federal minimum cetane of 45 as well?


One item that I noticed in Pemex stations is a centrifuge for last stage cleaning before the fuel goes to the pump.
ULSD (Ultra Bajo Azufre, or Premium UBA) 15ppm sulfur diesel is supposed to be available in Ciudad Juárez, Ensenada, Mexicali and Rosarito.


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 Post subject: Re: No Joke: filled up with dino D2 at $2.11/Gallon!
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:49 pm 
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nursecosmo wrote:
No but seriously, the roads down there are better than ever.


Drive down the Baja Peninsula sometime to do a little fishing and camping. Oncoming semi's doing 60 on coastal roads with blind corners barely wide enough for 2 passenger cars, pavement to gravel to dirt then back to pavement again, cows wandering down major roads, people with guns occasionally forcing tourists to pull over for shakedowns, corrupt cops seeking bribes in order to not tear your vehicle apart. Yah, lovely infrastructure they have down there... Gorgeous place with tremendous fishing, and most of the people are friendly and nice, but the government is a mess.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:10 am 
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Looks like we should all move to Venezuela!

Global Gas Prices
Nation City Price
UK TEESIDE $5.64
HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62
UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56
UK READING $5.56
UK NORWICH $5.54
GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29
DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08
NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07
NORWAY OSLO $4.93
ITALY ROME $4.86
TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85
PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80
KOREA SEOUL $4.71
SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56
KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53
AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50
CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32
JAPAN TOKYO $3.84
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63
CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57
TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47
GEORGIA TBILISI $2.31
LAOS VIENTIANE $1.66
THAILAND BANGKOK $1.60
CHINA TIANJIN $1.54
CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48
RUSSIA MOSCOW $1.45
KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36
KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35
TAJIKISTAN DUSHANBE $1.32
AZERBAIJAN BAKU $1.15
VENEZUELA CARACAS $0.14

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/price.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:16 am 
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There is a whole community of Venezualens here in S Fl who would argue that thats the palce to be.

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