V6 or CRD?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:01 pm

According to AAA data released yesterday, gas hit an all-time high and diesel was down from it's peak the week before. During the year 07 while I lived in UT, diesel was always cheaper that premium gas and within pennies of mid-grade.

jdorris · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:32 pm

I love my CRD. Most of us have had very few problems, of which most of these are general KJ problems not CRD specific. There are many mods that can be done, but none are necessary. Some of us are just fine tuning for performance and maximizing fuel economy. I will take my mileage over a gasser's any day even with the price of diesel. The math is easy. The naysayers, one in particular just seem to focus on a few incidents and apply them to all crd's. The longer I have been on this board, the fewer problems arise. I would say that now very few on this board are having trouble. Also the long term mileage out of a diesel over a gasser will allow you to drive it until the body falls apart. The torque increases towing capabilities, the increased weight helps balance out the tongue weight of a trailer, plus it just sounds great. Not too mention, the opportunity of producing your own bio-diesel.

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:24 pm

Could it be you hear fewer issues as they quit making these about two model years so there are no new ones in the pipeline?

I hear very few complaints or factory/dealer issues about '76 Pintos from people who bought one new in '08... :lol:

Today's fuel price report: Reg. - 3.99 Diesel 4.69 A little more than a few pennies difference here.

EDIT: A quick review of just the front page of the CRD section shows a myriad of CRD-specific issues. Today's include lift pumps, mutiple posts on overheating, multiple posts on torque convertor issues, and other issues on top of that. It appears as about 50% of the current front-page posts are due to mechanical problems with the CRD. One poll shows 25% of CRD respondents have overheating issues. A quick look over there would seem to be more educational than a popularity post here.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:43 pm

First of all, the national average is higher than that.

B - The national average for gas is on the rise and the national average for diesel is going down. Hence my statement "diesel is trending downwards".

Thank you.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:54 pm

The only reason I got a Liberty was because of the diesel, otherwise I'd have a Wrangler.
I'm still happy with with it, and I've had 2 problems related to the diesel.

and based on the numbers I'm seeing - diesel is 20-25% higher than gas - and I'm getting about 30% better mileage than I'd expect from a v6.

jerseykj · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:23 pm

i have a gasser and have never driven the diesel model so i can say anything against or for it. gas where i live is an average of 3.95 and diesel is about 4.90.

CRD Sport · **Joined:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:42 pm **Posts:** 22

ATXKJ wrote:

The only reason I got a Liberty was because of the diesel, otherwise I'd have a Wrangler.
I'm still happy with with it, and I've had 2 problems related to the diesel.

and based on the numbers I'm seeing - diesel is 20-25% higher than gas - and I'm getting about 30% better mileage than I'd expect from a v6.

Same here, if it wasn't for the diesel I wouldn't have bought a Liberty. I test drove 3 V6 Libertys ranging from 04' to 07' before I test drove my 06' CRD. I was instantly hooked on the low end torque/power. I tow a 5000lb+ trailer fairly often, and this thing pulls it great and still manages 17-18mpg doing it. If your planing on doing a lot of heavy towing and keeping it for the long term, I'd recommend the CRD. I have only a couple hundred dollars in mods to eliminate over 90% of the problems you may encounter with the CRD, I'd say it's good cheap insurance to avoid problems down the road. But, if your only going to keep it a couple years though, it might not be worth the extra cost up front.

BTW, diesel is running about .65 to .70 more than gas around here. Diesel has been steady and even going slightly down lately, while gas continues to go up slowly. Even with the higher cost, I pay about 18% more for fuel, but get over 35% better mpg that the V6 (17-18mpg vs 25mpg+). Depending on how much you drive and how good of a deal you get on the CRD, you could make up the difference in aprox. 3-5yrs.

daspes · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:53 pm

Everyone is missing the best thing about the CRD...Its an '05, which means its got the good bumper!

mrkake · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:40 pm

I bought the Liberty specifically for the diesel engine (I am building a biodiesel processor). It is a different animal than the gasser and it just depends on what you want out of your vehicle. I have 49k miles on mine and I have had it in the shop once (blown CAC hose). It does require more maintenance and is in need of some mods in my opinion. Even with the increase in mileage, when you take the price of fuel into account I don't think you will save money going with the CRD. It will come down to personal preference in the end. You will pay a premium, parts are harder to get and there are a number of design flaws. On the positive side, you will have more torque, better towing ability and far better gas mileage (last road trip I took I averaged better than 30 mpg although in the city I average 22). If you plan on running to the dealership every time it makes a funny noise then get the gasser. If you like getting your hands dirty working on and around known issues then get the CRD. I for one would try to find an '06 with as late a born on date as you can find. I don't regret buying my CRD for a second, but I have a biased opinion as does everyone else. Gather as much information as you can and make an informed, unemotional decision.

Okay, the soap box is now available for someone else

bugnout · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:10 pm

InCommando wrote:

Could it be you hear fewer issues as they quit making these about two model years so there are no new ones in the pipeline?

I hear very few complaints or factory/dealer issues about '76 Pintos from people who bought one new in '08... :lol:

Today's fuel price report: Reg. - 3.99 Diesel 4.69 A little more than a few pennies difference here.

EDIT: A quick review of just the front page of the CRD section shows a myriad of CRD-specific issues. Today's include lift pumps, mutiple posts on overheating, multiple posts on torque convertor issues, and other issues on top of that. It appears as about 50% of the current front-page posts are due to mechanical problems with the CRD. One poll shows 25% of CRD respondents have overheating issues. A quick look over there would seem to be more educational than a popularity post here.

All the threads you found in the CRD section can be found on any Cummins and TDI forums. These are Diesel issues. To each his own, I'm not bashing gassers, but I wouldn't have considered buying a Liberty unless it had the diesel. With 30% less carbon foot print and significantly better fuel mileage, I'm very happy with KJ.

I'm waiting for the Wrangler to be offered with a diesel.

jdorris · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:52 pm

Quote:

Today's fuel price report: Reg. - 3.99 Diesel 4.69 A little more than a few pennies difference here.

Gasser
3.99 @ 17 mpg = 23.5 cents per mile

CRD
4.69 @ 25mpg =18.8 cents per mile

CRD saves 4.7 cents per mile, $705 per year.

Turns out it is just a matter of pennies.

Very Happy That is unless as RUL rises diesel settles to where it was a year ago to about 20 cents less than RUL, then the savings gets better. I already recouped the extra $$$ paid at purchase, now it takes a bit longer.

Of course many gassers get 20 or so mpg but then a lot of the CRD owners get 30. I had to pick a spot.

I own two other vehicles that are gassers, my truck gets 16 mpg if I am lucky and my Commando gets 13 if I am lucky (401 w/4 barrel). Seriously you can watch the gauge go down as you drive at 65; that is if you can keep it on the highway. ':twisted:'
Twisted Evil So anyway, fuel economy was important for one vehicle.

Quote:

EDIT: A quick review of just the front page of the CRD section shows a myriad of CRD-specific issues. Today's include lift pumps, mutiple posts on overheating, multiple posts on torque convertor issues, and other issues on top of that. It appears as about 50% of the current front-page posts are due to mechanical problems with the CRD. One poll shows 25% of CRD respondents have overheating issues. A quick look over there would seem to be more educational than a popularity post here.

If scanning the boards is the way to decide then it is a draw. There are about 12 problems on the gen discussion board, about 12 on the 4x4 board, although those don't all count because many are related to 4 wheeling mods, lifts bumpers etc, and about 12 on the CRD board, there are about 5 talking about alt fuel, about 20 that discuss mods, none of which are necessary to make a crd run, just improve performance, and about a dozen that are pretty much off topic.

Back on topic though, this is not an answer you will find easily, everyone is going to be biased according to what they own. You will just have to do some more digging, do some more math, figure out what your needs for the vehicle are and check out the local jeep dealer 'cause any way you slice it you may have to do warranty work there for either a gasser or a CRD. :shock:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:31 am

bugnout wrote:

MaineSleddah wrote:

They have been sold all over the world, long before they were available here and most anyone who own's one loves it...

Good point, They were only 10000 sold over 2 years in the states, but they were sold in larger numbers worldwide. the earlier models were 2.5L and non-turbocharged, but still the VM engine. Parts will be available

No, thats wrong. The 2002 - 2004 KJ used the 2.5L with the MT, and the 2.8 with the AT. Both were turbo charged. Before that the 2.5 in the XJ was used with both AT and MT Jeeps, and was turbo charged.

Matt400 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:00 am

Wow.. I am surprised to read about those gas prices. Diesel here fluctuates between .10 to .20 more than Regular.
Our 03 gets 16 - 17 mpg and based on what many report on the CRD for mileage it just seems enticing to switch.
I also have a Dodge 2500 4x4 Diesel that gets 20 so its cheaper per mile to operate than our current Liberty.
I do all the service work and like it that way, I do it for a living and no dealers within 2 hrs of here anyway.

I don't tow much with our Liberty, sometimes a small utility trailer with yard waste, maybe 750 lbs loaded. The larger tires I switched to makes it a dog in the mountains so I don't like that much, wish it had 4.10's now. I hate the 03 Sport seats, dunno if the 05 Sports are any better but that was what I was looking at.

I don't suppose my suspension upgrades would swap over to an 05 CRD?? They probably take a more heavy spring.
So am I to understand that there are only 12000 of these in the States?

mrkake · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:06 am

Quote:

So am I to understand that there are only 12000 of these in the States?

Yup, 11,000 and change made and sold in the two years they were available. In comparison over 700,000 Libertys were produced in those same two years (I am not sure whether that includes numbers made for export or not though).

I haven't had a problem getting parts for mine. They just aren't stocked at the dealerships so I order them online. I do most of my shopping online anyway so I don't see this as a deterrent but others may.

Matt400 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:06 pm

I don't think its gonna fly, not so sure I am willing to pay well over kbb.com excellent condition.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:20 am

Matt, keep looking. There are several CRD’s on the market for excellent prices. You could also buy the CRD motor and wiring and do an engine swap into your KJ. Although, I think you could find a nice CRD for around $12,000. I saw one sell for $10,500 last month with 47,000 miles. I had a 2005 CRD and was in the shop all the time. I traded it for my 2007 gasser. In my opinion, I made a mistake. I wish I would have kept the CRD as there are many modifications that you can do to enhance the efficiently and reliability of the CRD. I am building a JK CRD as we speak. I bought the motor and all the wiring for $2,000. Once the JK CRD is finished, I will look for a used KJ CRD, as I anticipate spending less than $10,000 for one. Anyway, the engine swap is something to think about. I love the 3.7 gasser. The 3.7 is very reliable. Although, I prefer a diesel any day over a gasser, but let’s face it, I hope people drive the KJ because it’s a JEEP, not because it’s got a diesel. Gasoline engines are good motors and super cheap to replace. They require very little maintenance as compared to a diesel.

Marlon_JBT · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:47 pm

I've had both. an '04 3.7L and an '06 2.8L, and both for about the same amount of miles (26k, 3.7L, 27k 2.8L)

The 2.8L was definitely more problematic than the 3.7L. I had 2 EGR valve replacements. Blew a turbo hose. Engine mount died. And I had this odd issue with the transmission slipping which triggered a CEL but by the time I got it to the dealer, it was gone and the code disappeared, so they said. I had some other issues but they were not specific to the engine/transmission. No glow plug issues or anything like that. Now that I no longer have it, I miss it, but not sure if I just miss the Liberty in general or the CRD engine. There was also an occasional issue with the engine acting like it was only running on a couple cylinders but a restart fixed the issue. No CEL.

Power and mileage were both excellent. 30MPG highway easily by myself, 26MPG with passengers and cargo. City MPG slowly creeped up to 21MPG as the engine got more miles on it.

The '04 went to the shop for an oxygen sensor and anti-sway bar bushings.

I've noticed that sellers think they're selling gold with these Jeeps. Looking on autotrader.com, the lowest priced one in 100 miles of me is at $15450, it's an '05 with 35k on it. There's one also for $18254... with 26k, an '06. Ick.

Luc.Blais · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:57 pm

My CRD has 66,000km on it, I have the foot either fully on the Gas pedal or the brake pedal. nothing broke, hauling a 14' closed box twin axle trailer... I love it.

Matt400 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:45 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

You could also buy the CRD motor and wiring and do an engine swap into your KJ.

In CA I would probably serve jail time for that one.

Quote:

I think you could find a nice CRD for around $12,000. I saw one sell for $10,500 last month with 47,000 miles.

I will keep an eye out, the ones I have seen are overpriced IMO. They have to at least be in the blue book range.

Quote:

I will look for a used KJ CRD, as I anticipate spending less than $10,000 for one.

That would be a good deal for sure.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:00 am

Matt400 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

You could also buy the CRD motor and wiring and do an engine swap into your KJ.

In CA I would probably serve jail time for that one.

Quote:

I think you could find a nice CRD for around $12,000. I saw one sell for $10,500 last month with 47,000 miles.

I will keep an eye out, the ones I have seen are overpriced IMO. They have to at least be in the blue book range.

Quote:

I will look for a used KJ CRD, as I anticipate spending less than $10,000 for one.

That would be a good deal for sure.

I've called two different individuals who were selling their CRD at $11,000 or less. Both were sold as soon as I called. They both acted as though they were surprised by the overwhelming response that they had received. I'm guessing that there are a few CRD owners that do not realize how rare the CRD is. I guess it's somewhat like supply and demand. I’ve tried buying wrecked CRDs, and they are going for high prices as people are buying them for the parts to do engine swaps just as I’m doing. I had to finally buy individual parts for my JK build. From what I’ve seen, as the miles start to rack up, these vehicles will start coming down quickly in price. Be checking nearly daily as new used CRDs pop-up all over the place.

I don’t see how it would be illegal to do a motor swap as long as you had it done outside of California and registered the KJ as a diesel engine (which is legal). It is prohibited to buy a new CRD in California, however after the engine has 7,500 miles on it, you can bring it into the CARB state. I’m doing a engine swap in a 2007 JK Wrangler, plus I’m having it registered as a US diesel. My JK will look nearly identical to a German Wrangler CRD. All my wiring, gauges, fuel tank, and engine compartment will be all Mopar with German Specs.

V6 or CRD?

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