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 Post subject: News: Chrysler hybrids, dealers,and diesels
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:30 pm 
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The guys at Cerebrus seem to be between a rock and a hard place. Need fuel misers fast, no money to develop fuel misers for the US market. One of the dealers has the smartest quote in the article:


"I don't know if hybrid is going to be the magic wand," Galeana said. "I think we're certainly going to see diesels and other things that will be just as meaningful as a hybrid car and maybe more, as far as functionality and real-life usage."

He said the company will be better off by 2010. "If we're able to get some decent European diesels in the mix, I think that will help us a great deal."


Chrysler plans electric vehicles, could be ready in 3-5 years


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... /807140325

BY TIM HIGGINS • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • July 14, 2008


Chrysler LLC's answer to the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt could be three to five years away, the Free Press has learned.
Advertisement

The Auburn Hills automaker launched a special division within the company last fall called ENVI -- pronounced like "envy" -- to bring electric-drive vehicles and related advanced-propulsion technologies to market.

"ENVI is currently developing electric vehicles for the three Chrysler brands and is planning on product within three to five years," Nick Cappa, a Chrysler spokesman, told the Free Press in an e-mail.

General Motors Corp. has promised a breakthrough electric-drive vehicle -- commonly referred to as a plug-in hybrid -- called the Chevy Volt by 2010.

The move by Chrysler comes as some dealers quietly question why Chrysler is not stepping up efforts to bring more hybrid technology to market quicker in light of $4-a-gallon gasoline and tanking SUV and truck sales.

Some dealers tell the Free Press they've been told not to expect the bulk of the automaker's lineup to have a hybrid option in the near future.

Alan Helfman, vice president of Helfman River Oaks Chrysler Jeep in Houston, said he has been told not to expect many hybrid offerings before 2012. "It's lamenting. ... You don't have to have every car -- not everyone wants a hybrid -- but it's obviously a profound proportion of the industry right now," he said.

Another dealer, who didn't want to be named because product plans are secret, echoed those thoughts: They "need to put that hybrid in."

Around September, Chrysler will begin to offer two hybrids: the Chrysler Aspen and Dodge Durango -- both SUVs and both priced below GM's similar models.

GM and Chrysler teamed up with Mercedes-Benz and BMW to develop a two-mode hybrid system.

Chrysler, beyond announcing plans to have a Dodge Ram hybrid in its 2010 model year, remains mum on hybrid plans, other than to hint that more is to come.

A market forecast by J.D. Power and Associates predicts that Chrysler will offer a hybrid option with the Dodge Grand Caravan next year and with the Dodge Avenger car and Journey crossover in 2013.

One independent dealer told the Free Press that Chrysler officials have said it could be as long as 2012 for a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Paul Lacy, an industry analyst with Global Insight, however, predicts Chrysler will be marketing a hybrid version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee in the 2010 model year as part of the automaker's response to recent federal legislation that requires it to make more fuel-efficient vehicles.

"As soon as the energy bill starts to take effect, they'll pound in on these things. They won't have a choice," Lacy said. He also said he expects a Dodge Charger hybrid by 2011.

Private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management acquired majority control of Chrysler from now-Daimler AG last August. Since then, Chrysler has undergone dramatic changes as it races to remake itself as a smaller company and deal with a worsening U.S. auto industry.

Chrysler's U.S. sales are down 22%, hurt particularly by its truck-heavy lineup. The privately held automaker has also had to battle speculation about its financing, issuing statements to deny bankruptcy fears and to say it is beating financial goals.

"The big thing for Chrysler is money. It's a cost thing. ... They don't have any," Lacy said of why Chrysler can't rush hybrids to market quicker.

"They have been involved in a cooperation with GM ... but they haven't really made any commitments. They've also put a lot of money into their up-and-coming diesel lineup."

The automaker said pulling forward hybrid models is no simple matter. "There's a full plan in place for hybrids at Chrysler," Cappa said.

Chrysler has given few details about what its ENVI efforts will produce. "ENVI is going to play a lot deeper role than a lot of people think going forward," Cappa said.

"If you want to go ahead and make everything a full hybrid system, fine, but what if you can turn everything into a range-extended vehicle and take it beyond the 2020 campaign for 35 miles per gallon?" Cappa asked. "The new technology ENVI is developing could do that."

Last year, Chrysler announced plans to spend $3 billion to develop more fuel-efficient powertrains. A big part of that announcement has been the development of a new V6 engine, axle and dual-clutch transmission, all of which Chrysler executives promise will deliver fuel savings.

And there are Chrysler's diesel efforts. The new Dodge Ram is expected to have a diesel option to introduce after 2009.

Carl Galeana, vice president of Van Dyke Dodge in Warren, said he's frustrated about the hybrids but hopes Chrysler's diesel plans will help.

"I don't know if hybrid is going to be the magic wand," Galeana said. "I think we're certainly going to see diesels and other things that will be just as meaningful as a hybrid car and maybe more, as far as functionality and real-life usage."

He said the company will be better off by 2010. "If we're able to get some decent European diesels in the mix, I think that will help us a great deal."

Contact TIM HIGGINS at 313-222-8784 or thiggins@freepress.com.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Interesting article....
I guess its time to inform Cerebrus that if they send a trusted employee over to the Toledo plant and take a look at the high mileage diesels that are being built & shipped
all over the rest of the world, just not in North America. Actually he or she wouldn't have had to spend bus fare to Toledo, the 50mpg Patriot diesel run from England to Poland was on
the Chrysler web site home page for almost a month. There has got to be a looker working at Auburn Hills in some department. Maybe Cerebrus should consider sending her to the
beauty spa, springing for a SNUG fitting Armani business suit, some ruby red lipstick, and over she goes to the EPA to cut a few deals. The high mileage euro diesels start selling here. Bingo,
Cerebrus has all sorts of money to build electric cars for the "Save The Earther's". The EPA needs a good cleansing, but then you all already know that...
And yes Cerebrus...You DO manufacture the Jeep Patriot, just in case you weren't aware... :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:27 pm 
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What were these idiots thinking in 1997 when Toyota released the Prius? Who has not seen where oil prices would be headed? These folks have had all sorts of warning that vehicles would need better fuel mileage, it reminds of the 70s all over again. The big 3 got kicked in the rear by the Japanese then, looks like it's happening again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:42 pm 
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UFO wrote:
What were these idiots thinking in 1997 when Toyota released the Prius? Who has not seen where oil prices would be headed? These folks have had all sorts of warning that vehicles would need better fuel mileage, it reminds of the 70s all over again. The big 3 got kicked in the rear by the Japanese then, looks like it's happening again.


They were developing the same technology (using our tax dollars) under a program called "Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles," then quickly putting said technology on a shelf and forgetting about it.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/23 ... cles-pngv/

The Patriot diesel uses a Volkswagen engine... now that VW has TDI's that meet the new EPA regs, one would think it would not be too complicated to cut a deal with VW to buy the new engines and use them for the US market.

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 Post subject: Makes too much sense
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:43 pm 
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Threeweight wrote:
UFO wrote:
What were these idiots thinking in 1997 when Toyota released the Prius? Who has not seen where oil prices would be headed? These folks have had all sorts of warning that vehicles would need better fuel mileage, it reminds of the 70s all over again. The big 3 got kicked in the rear by the Japanese then, looks like it's happening again.


They were developing the same technology (using our tax dollars) under a program called "Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles," then quickly putting said technology on a shelf and forgetting about it.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/23 ... cles-pngv/

The Patriot diesel uses a Volkswagen engine... now that VW has TDI's that meet the new EPA regs, one would think it would not be too complicated to cut a deal with VW to buy the new engines and use them for the US market.


I have a Jeep Patriot 4X4 rental car for the job this week in St Thomas, US Virgin Islands, I would love to get my wife a Patriot Diesel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:40 am 
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It's all fine and dandy for the dealerships to complain about product. But when was the last time they contributed 1 cent to the development of new product?

People continually argue about which side is to blame, union or management. Rarely do people think about the third money sucking part of the car to customer equation, the dealerships. These 'separate companies' make billions annually, their 'integrity' is legendary and their political clout is unquestioned. They are the reason behind Saab SUV's, Lincoln pickup trucks and other noteworthy product bombs like the Cadillac Cimarron.

One little discussed advantage most foreign automakers have over the domestics is the freedom to introduce a single vehicle at a time, not have to develop two (Chrysler), three (Ford), or God-knows-how-many (GM) vehicles with 'brand differentiation.'

Had the business model been different (in other words if Henry Ford had wanted to sell to individual customers instead of batch sales to resellers) the US auto industry would have evolved along far different lines.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:36 pm 
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The Dodge-Jeep-Chrysler line in Germany is full of Diesels right now. Caliber, Caravan, 300C, KK, GC, Patriot, Nitro, etc. There is now excuse anymore.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:19 pm 
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jinstall wrote:
The Dodge-Jeep-Chrysler line in Germany is full of Diesels right now. Caliber, Caravan, 300C, KK, GC, Patriot, Nitro, etc. There is now excuse anymore.


Emissions compliance still.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
jinstall wrote:
The Dodge-Jeep-Chrysler line in Germany is full of Diesels right now. Caliber, Caravan, 300C, KK, GC, Patriot, Nitro, etc. There is now excuse anymore.


Emissions compliance still.


Except Chrysler doesn't make most of the engines. Many of them are VW's, and VW has engines that meet the new specs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
And how easy is it to meet a target, when that target keeps getting pushed back by a bunch of whining nutballs that ignore logic or common sense... AND can be bought off when they DO make a strong decision?

The idiots at CARB were bought off after they made their ZERO-Emission demands back in the 90s, and the oil industry paid the car makers to cry about the impossibility of it all. So CARB backed off. But has anyone done the same level of whining about diesels? Not in the slightest. More restrictive controls on diesels reduces their economic benefits... Which makes more money for the oil companies. Diesel is easier to produce... Which makes more money for the oil companies. Trucks HAVE to run, which makes a guaranteed customer for the oil companies.

See a pattern yet? A MINUTE decrease in the pollution from a single factory (or power plant) which is a LOT easier to control and contain... Would have the effect of "removing cars from the road" in the tens of thousands... But it MAKES MORE MONEY FOR THE OIL COMPANIES to focus on the group that can't collectively fight back: The driving public.

Follow the money, you will find the real reason every time.


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 Post subject: Why is T Boon Pickins supporting Windmills, Solar,...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:48 pm 
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...and Natural gas development?
geordi wrote:
Follow the money, you will find the real reason every time.


One thing burned out IDIOT LAWYERS who can't cut it in their trade any more (Smart ones stay in and make money) do?

Run for public office and make stupid laws that defy logic and common sense.

If they found out that every ton of dead rotting trees produces 2.86 tons of CO2, would they out law trees dieing :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:21 am 
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If the big three represent what American's are thinking and buying, it shocks me not why people overseas hate us.

This new flash should have come from years ago. The sad thing is, based on the CRD's shortcomings, they will sabotage these diesels in the same or worse ways than they did the Liberty.

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