VM Motori JK Wrangler installation beginsâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

Uffe · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 7:30 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

There are 3 versions of these motors.

VM Motori 2.8 Panther European version
VM Motori 2.8 Egyptian Military version
VM Motori 2.8 U.S. Liberty 05/06 version

Strictly speaking we get all three in europe. The R428 without VGT (like mine, 03-05) the R428 with VGT (05+ cherokees) and the RA428 (wrangler CRDs).

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 2:13 pm

fastRob wrote:

Have you been looking for a CRD and are you doing the DieselToys installation?
When the body dies my MV will find a home for little Wranglers.
Which version for you?

Yes, I have located a wrecked CRD. I’ve been waiting the past two weeks for the donor vehicle to become ready for auction. Just ask SirSam, we’ve gone through extensive measures to secure this little tractor. :wink:

In the meantime, I’m always keeping my eyes open for other possibilities. The new generation 2.8 panther has a lot of power. However, getting my hands on one might be difficult. Todd at DieselToyz has already been working on the wiring. Basically, there are several ways to approach this diesel swap. Thanks to the 2.8 already being offered in Europe, (especially Germany) we can pretty much swap out parts. Everything from the diesel fuel tank to the wiring will be transferable. Todd is super anal about his installs. When he is finished, everything will look like it came from the factory.

If any of you guys are thinking about a diesel swap, then he’s the guy to go to. My next diesel swap will be into an XJ.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 1:34 pm

Well, I got outbid on the wrecked CRD. :twisted:

However, I did get a complete engine with all the wiring and computers for both the transmission and engine.

Progress is slow, but we are moving along. :wink:

PharaohXJ · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 4:52 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

There are 3 versions of these motors.

VM Motori 2.8 Panther European version
VM Motori 2.8 Egyptian Military version
VM Motori 2.8 U.S. Liberty 05/06 version

Hi I subscribed to LOST KJ specially for this thread.

I am a proud XJ owner (NAXJA) & I happen to live in EGYPT

I Always thought that the KJ had enough potential specially in the sand but didn t like the way of power delivery of the V6 ( great engine for a dodge).

I got word from the AAV ( the factory assembelling J8s in Egypt) that they will be making around 400 JK unlimited CRD with 545RFE.
The car weighs around 2 tons -quite heavy-.

How do you think this engine would suite the JK & any specs about the Egyptian Military version Engine ?

Great forum

Cheers

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 5:11 pm

PharaohXJ wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

There are 3 versions of these motors.

VM Motori 2.8 Panther European version
VM Motori 2.8 Egyptian Military version
VM Motori 2.8 U.S. Liberty 05/06 version

Hi I subscribed to LOST KJ specially for this thread.

I am a proud XJ owner (NAXJA) & I happen to live in EGYPT

I Always thought that the KJ had enough potential specially in the sand but didn t like the way of power delivery of the V6 ( great engine for a dodge).

I got word from the AAV ( the factory assembelling J8s in Egypt) that they will be making around 400 JK unlimited CRD with 545RFE.
The car weighs around 2 tons -quite heavy-.

How do you think this engine would suite the JK & any specs about the Egyptian Military version Engine ?

Great forum

Cheers

The 2002-2004 KJ CRD would be a very easy swap into another gasoline KJ. It would also be the easiest of the KJ CRDs to swap into an XJ.

We do not have very good specs on the J8 engine, but rumor has it that it will be the EDC15 version of the bosche ECU which means it should have the standalone APPS like the 02-04 KJs had. This means that the engine would be much better suited for engine swaps than the EDC16 version of the CRD.

PharaohXJ · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 1:01 am

But desnt the EDC16 makes more power ?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 2:49 am

PharaohXJ wrote:

But desnt the EDC16 makes more power ?

It does but at the cost of much more complication for install.

The EDC15 has an APPS with a throttle cable input, meaning you can take the throttle cable from an XJ and connect it in the engine bay.

The EDC16 has it's APPS as one unit integrated in to the dash wiring harness connected directly to the gas pedal.

Also the EDC16 has an electronically controlled VGT turbo actuated via a vacuum source.

Yes the ECD16 setup makes more power, but its at the expense of complication.

Now all this could just be pillow talk, it will all depend on what motor you are able to source for a swap. Personally I got my hands on a 2002-2004 KJ 2.5 for a manual trans that will either be going into an XJ or MJ.

Had I located a 2005-2006 KJ CRD parts vehicle I would be able to extricate all the parts I need to swap it into a XJ.

Are you planning an XJ or a KJ swap?

PharaohXJ · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 3:08 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

Are you planning an XJ or a KJ swap?

Actually neither, I am looking into getting a a new JK unlimited CRD but I think its going to be the Egyptian Mil spec or maybe a J8

So EDC15 doesnt get VTG ?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 5:42 pm

PharaohXJ wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

Are you planning an XJ or a KJ swap?

Actually neither, I am looking into getting a a new JK unlimited CRD but I think its going to be the Egyptian Mil spec or maybe a J8

So EDC15 doesnt get VTG ?

No, the older EDC15 uses a traditional turbo with the wastegate actuated directly by the vacuum/boost source. This also means it is easier to play around with and increase the boost levels.

PharaohXJ · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 5:49 pm

Playing with boost.............. hmmmm tempting :twisted:

But isnt the VTG better on low revs in other words will spool quiker

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 7:04 pm

PharaohXJ wrote:

Playing with boost.............. hmmmm tempting :twisted:

But isnt the VTG better on low revs in other words will spool quiker

Yes it is, but like I said, its at the expense of complication.

At least with the traditional turbo setup the ECU has no say in the boost, meaning you can put on whatever turbo you would like and boost it up.

Uffe · **Posted:** Wed May 21, 2008 2:51 am

Sir Sam wrote:

Yes it is, but like I said, its at the expense of complication.

At least with the traditional turbo setup the ECU has no say in the boost, meaning you can put on whatever turbo you would like and boost it up.

That's what I also liked about my 03 KJ, less complications compared to an 05.

In the light of the software-hardware symbiosis which has struck car engines I think the complexity of the mechanical components should be kept at a minimum. Fewer parts to go wrong. The bad thing about computer controlled engines is that the price of ownership of older cars is considerably higher than in the old days, because a broken control unit will cost an arm and a leg. Then there's the extra electrical wires which will age and break down over time.

That is, if the mechanical components also increase in complexity. Could they offset the disadvantage of simpler mechanical components by controlling them electrically I think reliability would be constant while power could increase. Unfortunately I think they want power to increase as much as possible. Oh if they would only make offroad cars reliable and simple like an AK-47...

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed May 21, 2008 2:59 am

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

Yes it is, but like I said, its at the expense of complication.

At least with the traditional turbo setup the ECU has no say in the boost, meaning you can put on whatever turbo you would like and boost it up.

That's what I also liked about my 03 KJ, less complications compared to an 05.

In the light of the software-hardware symbiosis which has struck car engines I think the complexity of the mechanical components should be kept at a minimum. Fewer parts to go wrong. The bad thing about computer controlled engines is that the price of ownership of older cars is considerably higher than in the old days, because a broken control unit will cost an arm and a leg. Then there's the extra electrical wires which will age and break down over time.

That is, if the mechanical components also increase in complexity. Could they offset the disadvantage of simpler mechanical components by controlling them electrically I think reliability would be constant while power could increase. Unfortunately I think they want power to increase as much as possible. Oh if they would only make offroad cars reliable and simple like an AK-47...

Or a AR15 if you want to keep it US built.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:13 pm

Todd has decided that the U.S. R 428, 2.8 VM engine isn’t going to be the best application for the JK. Due to the size, shape, and depth of the oil pan, a 4” body lift and several other modifications would have to be made. I am selling my U.S. CRD and all the wiring and will start looking for an European RA 428, 2.8 VM. I do not know what additional cost lay ahead, but Todd and I both agree that this is a new direction worth taking. Everything else is simple, this will be a true factory installation.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:18 am

Can't you just get an oil pan from Europe? Must be something more than just a simple oil pan/pick-up tube exchange problem...

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Sir Sam wrote:

Or a AR15 if you want to keep it US built.

Uh, how about an AR 180 or M14 for a reliable US built design. I wouldn't call an AR15 reliable on a good day, at least not in comparison to a Kalashnikov-style gas piston design or a Garand-based action.

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:24 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Todd has decided that the U.S. R 428, 2.8 VM engine isn’t going to be the best application for the JK. Due to the size, shape, and depth of the oil pan, a 4” body lift and several other modifications would have to be made. I am selling my U.S. CRD and all the wiring and will start looking for an European RA 428, 2.8 VM. I do not know what additional cost lay ahead, but Todd and I both agree that this is a new direction worth taking. Everything else is simple, this will be a true factory installation.

So what's the difference between the two engines?

It can't be much different if you ask me...

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:40 am

Uffe wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Todd has decided that the U.S. R 428, 2.8 VM engine isn’t going to be the best application for the JK. Due to the size, shape, and depth of the oil pan, a 4” body lift and several other modifications would have to be made. I am selling my U.S. CRD and all the wiring and will start looking for an European RA 428, 2.8 VM. I do not know what additional cost lay ahead, but Todd and I both agree that this is a new direction worth taking. Everything else is simple, this will be a true factory installation.

So what's the difference between the two engines?

It can't be much different if you ask me...

I’ve never seen the two engines side by side to make a comparison. However, for those who have seen a side by side comparison all agree that there is a big enough difference to turn to the factory motor. It’s all about fit and function. The factory motor just makes more sense. By keeping things factory, it’s simply a bolt on installation. And besides, who would want a US motor when they can have the new European motor? :wink:

VM Motori JK Wrangler installation beginsâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

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