Over Heating CRD?!

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:59 pm

Any word on how the fan output now compares with your '06? Did you get a chance to see how the '05 fan itself compares with the '06?

DOC

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:43 am

DOC4444 wrote:

Any word on how the fan output now compares with your '06? Did you get a chance to see how the '05 fan itself compares with the '06?

DOC

The fans are identical as are the fan clutches - same part numbers. After installing the new fan clutch in the 05 I noticed a significant improvement in wind volume and velocity coming off the fan. It is now identical to the 06. Whether or not that was THE problem with the overheating I have yet to find out. (its been rather cold) But, it was A problem that has now been solved.

- chris

Herk · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:04 am

KeighJeigh

Im standing by on your next test I have the same issue on overheating and if you have found the culprit then a new fan is in order.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:16 am

KeighJeigh wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

drag. This will drop your MPG unless you want to open the louvers only when they are needed.
Perhaps this could be off set by putting an aerodynamic tail (not a vertical rudder) onto the spare tire. You could either go with the Knife tail like the Boeing 777 or MD DC9 or go with the tear drop tail like the Boeing 757, 767 and all of Airbus fleet. If you go with the tear drop tail, you could place the exit point for the exhaust where the plains vent the APU :idea:

I have seen some ORT pulling trailers with a very dull version of the Knife Tail to reduce aerodynamic drag.

I believe this is one of our member's rigs - which the louver company is using in their add. How can these add more drag than the windshield wipers or lights or rack or brush guard or hood bra? They are only 1/4" high.

Those vents have zero effect on mileage,well actually I gained about 1/2-1 mpg from the added cooling effect from them.

From the CRecorder on before/after tests without/with the vents(about same relitive outside temps,same driving style,no A/C)..........

Before the vents.
-in town driving,long stop lights and a drag race to 50mph then back to a long stop,peaked at 219 degrees(6000' altitude)
-Highway driving,60-80mph up/down from 4000'-11,000',peaked at 215 degrees

After vents installed.
-in town driving,same as before,peaked at 210 degrees
-Highway driving,same as before,peaked at 202 degrees

After a few miles you can not hold your hand within 5" above the vents from the massive amounts of heat being pushed through them,great at defrosting the front windshied in the winter also.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:32 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

KeighJeigh wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

drag. This will drop your MPG unless you want to open the louvers only when they are needed.
Perhaps this could be off set by putting an aerodynamic tail (not a vertical rudder) onto the spare tire. You could either go with the Knife tail like the Boeing 777 or MD DC9 or go with the tear drop tail like the Boeing 757, 767 and all of Airbus fleet. If you go with the tear drop tail, you could place the exit point for the exhaust where the plains vent the APU :idea:

I have seen some ORT pulling trailers with a very dull version of the Knife Tail to reduce aerodynamic drag.

I believe this is one of our member's rigs - which the louver company is using in their add. How can these add more drag than the windshield wipers or lights or rack or brush guard or hood bra? They are only 1/4" high.

Those vents have zero effect on mileage,well actually I gained about 1/2-1 mpg from the added cooling effect from them.

From the CRecorder on before/after tests without/with the vents(about same relitive outside temps,same driving style,no A/C)..........

Before the vents.
-in town driving,long stop lights and a drag race to 50mph then back to a long stop,peaked at 219 degrees(6000' altitude)
-Highway driving,60-80mph up/down from 4000'-11,000',peaked at 215 degrees

After vents installed.
-in town driving,same as before,peaked at 210 degrees
-Highway driving,same as before,peaked at 202 degrees

After a few miles you can not hold your hand within 5" above the vents from the massive amounts of heat being pushed through them,great at defrosting the front windshied in the winter also.

This guy drives a GASSER, take that into consideration.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:18 am

Quote:

This guy drives a GASSER, take that into consideration.

Which means nothing with aerodymanics of the KJ with/without hood vents that you said would lessen mpg's.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:01 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

To test that - pull the foam strip off the back of the hood/firewall seal - it'll help air vent from under the hood
however it'll blow the hot air into your cabin air intake.

If you were to pull the foam strip in front of the windshield, the air flow would likely flow backwards into the engine compartment at highway speeds because of the high pressure area at that point. This is how cowl air induction hoods work and is the reason why the cabin air intake is at that point. The hood louvers on tjkj2002's rig are in a low pressure area of the hood so would help with hot air extraction especially at road speeds.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:03 pm

Easy enough to verify which way the air is going. Just get some kind of putty and make a bunch of little balls. Stick in some 2" ribbons into the little balls, and then stick them all over the hood. Go for a drive. Then go for a fast drive for a comparison.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:18 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

Easy enough to verify which way the air is going. Just get some kind of putty and make a bunch of little balls. Stick in some 2" ribbons into the little balls, and then stick them all over the hood. Go for a drive. Then go for a fast drive for a comparison.

That won't tell you anything about pressure differentials and the balls of putty will disrupt the slipstream anyway.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:29 pm

then try the ribbons with masking tape - the idea is to see which way the air is blowing.

actually the original idea came from low speed driving where there was not a ram air effect, it was only the fan blowing -
and I still think it's a reasonable test for KeighJeigh's driveway - not necessarily for highway speeds.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:36 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

then try the ribbons with masking tape - the idea is to see which way the air is blowing.

actually the original idea came from low speed driving where there was not a ram air effect, it was only the fan blowing -
and I still think it's a reasonable test for KeighJeigh's driveway - not necessarily for highway speeds.

It still won't tell anything about pressure differentials across the hood. If you were to take some ribbons and tape them to the rear edge of the hood and then remove the weather strip it might tell whether air is going forward or backward into the engine compartment. The reason why it might not show air flowing into the engine compartment is because the majority of the airflow is still across the hood and up and over the windshield. Whether or not there is induction at the hood/windshield junction is a moot point at low speeds anyway because there is also an absence of pressure under the vehicle, so the airflow from the fan can exit the way that it was intended by the engineers without any problem. The overheating problem with KeighJeigh"s Jeep was apparently unique to his vehicle. and was likely solved by the new fan clutch. We are all waiting to know the results K J. :?:

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:59 am

Herk wrote:

KeighJeigh

Im standing by on your next test I have the same issue on overheating and if you have found the culprit then a new fan is in order.

So far so good!

It has not been very warm here recently but I did have the AC on twice coming up the drive and the needle did not budge. I took it up a fairly nasty trail on Wednesday a few miles out of town and no problems there either. BTW: This is where the diesel comes into it's own! Basketball sized, loose boulders on steep terrain.....just let 'er idle up in granny gear to avoid the bashing on rocks from the need to rev the engine. I've driven a gasser Cherokee up this before and dented the hell out of the oil pan.
I do wish I had lockers though.....

A lot rougher than it looks (and steep). This gains about 4,000 ft. Needled didn't budge.:

My son loves it when I test the car:

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:00 am

Define "It has not been very warm here recently ", comparing current ambients to those ambients when you started this thread.

Is this your usual method of climbing your driveway: "just let 'er idle up in granny gear" ?

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:25 pm

gmctd wrote:

Define "It has not been very warm here recently ", comparing current ambients to those ambients when you started this thread.

Is this your usual method of climbing your driveway: "just let 'er idle up in granny gear" ?

Since it was installed I've had 2 days where I used the AC. The temperature in the valley was around 76 and 71 at the top of the driveway according to the on board thermometer. It's tough to give more specific temperatures around here because they can vary dramatically depending upon which side of the mountain you are on and the thickness of the tree canopy etc..

The ingredients for moving the temp gauge:
Temp is over 70 degrees,
The AC is on
Drive 15 MPH up the drive in
4WD high (1st to 2nd gear depending upon the section of drive)
The needle will begin to move as I near the top of the way up the driveway and then often hit 3/4 temp by the time I park at house level. On "hot" days - which here means 85+ - the needle would creep up to 7/8 and sometimes peg the gauge.

The trail test shown above was about 45 minutes of slow uphill where the temperature varied from 76 deg at the start to 55 deg at the top.

I've been keeping a close (and paranoid) eye on the needle since the install and have yet to see it budge one tick past normal. (normal on this gauge is one tick to the left of center)

The wife is sick so I will be watching my son all of today.....and since he likes to help daddy test the car, it may be time for another trail test a bit further East of the mountains where it is hotter. :wink:

fastRob · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:41 pm

Did you disconnect the plug near the air filter for the ORM to disable the EGR? Since the SEGR is not installed yet (mine is uninstalled yet as well)
Are your brakes sticking?
I still wonder about the intercooler, working?
This does not make sense to me this overheating, however, upon seeing your wife's air filter is there cause to wonder about other maintenance issues undone?
As an aside, if a man is alone in the forest and his wife does not hear him speak, is he still wrong?
Yes!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

As an aside, if a man is alone in the forest and his wife does not hear him speak, is he still wrong?

Not until he gets home!!!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

This does not make sense to me this overheating, however, upon seeing your wife's air filter is there cause to wonder about other maintenance issues undone?

My CRD oem setup filter would get that dirty with 4K on it with nothing more than Interstate driving. Enough light rain on the Interstate would coat it with black greasy road grime. Heavy rain would have 1/4" in of water in the bottom on a single 25 mile drive to work. Old posts here have someones pics showing water line in the bottom of their factory airbox. If you live in dry climate it's hard to imagine, but with enough moisture, it's a witch.

Switched the oem airbox bottom to my 02 airbox bottom with snorkel in July of 06 and it doesn't get that black road grime on it any more, just dust, a few leaves and some light sand. No water at all since then and I've driven through some torrential can't-see-50-feet-in-front-of-you downpours on the Blue Ridge Parkway.
The absolute worst was near I-40 to I-81 in Tennessee one summer. Had to eventually pull over and stop it was so bad. It looked like a monsoon. Semis were parked all over the Interstate edge of the road. Not a drop in the bottom of the airbox when I arrived at my destination.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:58 pm

I checked my air filter yesterday and the bottom side just had a few bug wings and some dust but was mostly clean. The engine side however had a fine coating of oil, not enough to discolor the paper but I could wipe it off of the metal screen. So I guess that I'm going to do the EHM again because it must be getting a hiccup of oil vapor when I shut down the engine. Although crap building up in the intake has not been a commonly reported problem like it was in some VWs, I still don't want to take the chance of it happening if the blowby is sufficient to get oil on the back side of the air filter. On the other hand maybe a little bit of oil on the back side of my air filter is a good thing, like a self oiling K&N.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:21 am

I drove it like a Jeep should be driven today.

I brought it up to over 5,000' on a long grind from the valley at 80 deg on a road I'd never been on before. At one point I turned onto a classic Jeep style track and ran into some seriously nasty terrain. Near the top I had to turn around when I was convinced I was endangering myself and my son. On the last pitch I stuck her in low and kicked the spurs all the way to the floor...but 1/2 way up a winding incline through the trees (the kind you see in nightmares) I hesitated because the track began to pitch off to one side.....and the mule lost momentum. The problem of course was sliding back down the hill backwards in loose material, trees all around and a "landing pad" that was scarcely longer than the Jeep. As I slid down backwards and got near the bottom I spun the wheel and, instead of holding onto the brakes, I gunned it and pulled a Rockford Files. She spun around nicely pointing downhill in a huge cloud of dust so thick I couldn't see around me.

Only then did I have time to look at the temp gauge: One tick to the left....and the fan was roaring. Cool
There is no way it would have tolerated that before I replaced the fan clutch.

It's nice to finally have a Jeep that can actually go up hills on nice days.

----------------------------------------------

Questions from FastRob:

Quote:

EHM or ProVent KeighJeigh?

I am trying the new Saikoumichi CCV can instead of the Provent. It looks nicer, is less expensive and I like the funky name and graphics. TBD how well it works - a few months of use should suffice.

Quote:

Did you disconnect the plug near the air filter for the ORM to disable the EGR? Since the SEGR is not installed yet (mine is uninstalled yet as well)

The CEL that the ORM was throwing was obnoxious so I plugged it back in again. I also replaced the EGR a couple weeks ago so that I have a clean slate when I install the SEGR.

Quote:

Are your brakes sticking?

No. (But they are pitted and look like crap. I have no idea why)

Quote:

I still wonder about the intercooler, working?

I took it all apart, cleaned everything I could, examined everything I could see (ain't much) and put it back together.

Quote:

This does not make sense to me this overheating, however, upon seeing your wife's air filter is there cause to wonder about other maintenance issues undone?

It didn't make sense to me either. A fan clutch is a very simple device & should never go bad.
This is the most maintained car I've ever owned - mostly because it is the most problematic car I've ever owned so I'm always working on it. One of our other forum members visited to lend his advice and the first thing he commented on was how spotless the engine was. (The air filter problem is in my wife's 06. Based upon what I've read the rain & road grime is probably a major culprit because it rains here constantly from November to May.)

Quote:

As an aside, if a man is alone in the forest and his wife does not hear him speak, is he still wrong?

Let's say I come home really late from a night in the forest reeking of booze and have lipstick all over my face.....and my wife meets me at the door glaring. Let's say I then I slap her on the stupid and say "Your next fatty!". Am I wrong? :twisted:

fastRob · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:35 am

Well done KeighJeigh, you must have been just about pulling the hair out. Who would have guessed the fan clutch....

I bought a SEGR kit to do the magic but disconnected the MAF instead, all the wires scare me.
Thinking about the FCV butterfly removal & EGR block now.
The MAP cleaning was my best fuel mileage improvement mod.

No problems with my airfilter, water once but the boot was off, did get bugs before I put fiberglass window screen over/between the grill.

Sounds like a neat place to live.

Never cross, "She who must be obeyed."

Over Heating CRD?!

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