Will you buy if the US Auto companies file Chapter 11?

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:16 pm

dirtykj wrote:

InCommando wrote:

Do you want a Dr. who only makes $50k/year? I wouldn't. What would lure the gifted to be Dr.'s if it is not pay? The level of care would tank overnight.

That's not necessarily true. You can always take a packaged health/tourism combo trip to India or Thailand and get excellent care for a fraction of what it would cost in the States.

Really? Hmm...I'd take India. Do you know of any good steakhouses in Delhi?

On a serious note...Don't worry guys...Obama will make everything all better!

toy4everyseason · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:18 am

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

Really? Hmm...I'd take India. Do you know of any good steakhouses in Delhi?

On a serious note...Don't worry guys...Obama will make everything all better!

Oh Political jab... hissssss :wink:

Back on topic, I buy cars I like. Make something I like and I'll buy it. Fact of the matter is times are changing and and there is no longer room for cars in the same class to compete with thier sister vehicles under the big 3. Chrysler knew this and killed of Plymouth. GM needs to kill off Buick, GMC, Saturn and Hummer to really get a fresh start. Its time to trim some of the fat.

crdjon · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:26 am

I would not buy any new car for quite some time from anyone. ( guess thats a vote of some kind and I provide some waffle below.)

The way the world is going how can any of us work out what to buy with any certainty, instability with fuels now and what may be adopted soon. What we might like to buy may well not end up being produced is a thought I have.

Personally my first car was a chrysler, others inbetween accross 30 years, I can honestly say that there has been been next to no innovation in the 2007 model I have (excluding the air bags and traction control that most vehicles seem to have), desipite the incorporation of the a myriad of components and systems and complexity that really don't seem to enhanced economy as I would have expected.

The costs are higher and the quality has not improved perhaps even gone backwards.

If Chrysler and others are bailed out, the not infrequent and poor treatment of many customers right down through the dealership system means I wont go back near them no matter what they come up with. And I bet im not the only person left feeling like this, and perhaps this means a bailout would be frought with further problems.

Its not my TAX money helping them out (again) but if it was, I would expect that there must be some real sacrifices within the companies with their business model, maybe your government should acquire a controlling interest (cheap, say for the cost of the bailout) clean out the management tiers (maybe contract independent management) and return profits in some form to the tax payers. Hmmmm..... probably wouldnt happen but that type of thing seems to be happening in other places around the globe at the moment.

I am hopeful though that the Big 1 or 2 or 3, if they survive, do something special with the opportunity this time.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:19 pm

fastRob wrote:

I want a J8 real bad, nothing against our Liberty, just want a real Jeep.

What is a real Jeep? That is something a JP magazine fan would say.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:58 pm

As some have said on here, time to trim the fat. Why do the big three that own other companies (Dodge-Chrylser-Jeep for example) make vehicles that are the same....a good example is the Nitro and Liberty. Other examples go back to Comet and Maverick, Firebird and Camaro, Monte Carlo and Regal, Compass and Vibe, etc. Too many similar cars from the same major company or even competing with them from the other two. While we like variety and individuality with our vehicles, we make waste by creating too many similar vehicles. Stealing another company's look is stupid. Design your own and make it your own.

As for the unions, they charge the worker too much to be in one and they have to be in one. Unions were great when they were needed, but the Auto industry could not afford to do the BS they did in the old days, today, and survive. The Japanese factories do great without unions because they don't screw the worker over. They know better. Besides, do you want a union to save the job of a lazy bum that has 15 yrs invested and doesn't care about his quality of work or save the job of a 2 yr invested hard working, quality focused employee? The union will ax the 2 yr employee. THAT is the problem with the American industry, why quality stinks, and everything outsourcing.

The big cheeses, CEO CFO, etc., need to be knocked down a notch also. Accountability for financial spending, salaries, and those ridiculous bonuses need to be monitored by someone that isn't involved. Employees should get a major say in it (three employees make up a committee and the positions are rotated annually - to be the Liaisons for the employees and are equal determiners in the bonus, benefits, and firing/hiring process - small bonus provided when performing the duties and nobody can hold the position two consecutive years). Similar to a union but not a union. If the CEO gets a bonus, all employee's should get the same level (not amount) of bonus.

If you don't like what is happening, go complain to your Congressman/Senator/President.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/20/honda.town/

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:21 pm

When I was advising on a Screw Pump installation in the Heart of UAW land in a GM storm water pretreatment plant. There had to be a UAW member sitting on his/her butt doing nothing more than drinking coffee, eating donuts, and watching cable TV in a break room for every one working on the job. Membership in a construction trade union did not even count for the workers and required a UAW member holding down a chair. Work 1 minute of overtime and not get off site by quitting time, another hour of overtime for holding down a chair.
Total cost for one pump for GM $500,000 :!:

Cost to any other municipality $200,000 :!:

Conclusion $300,000 spent on other needless Bull Crap, not counting the UAW members holding down the chairs in the break room.

BMW can assemble a US built X-5 for $42/hour but GM has to spend $72 to assemble a Trailblazer.

This makes the Mafia look like Choir Boys. :!:

HoppedUpOnGoofballs · **Joined:** Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:36 pm **Posts:** 203

The automakers shot themselves in the foot long ago.. Unions didnt help much..

No more 50/60 hour work weeks thanks to the unions? ..Hmm.. I work 50/60 hours every week, with NO OVERTIME (Im not salary). People who do the same job as me in union companies work less hours (something like 44 a week), do less work, and make more money.. Bitter?? ..A little. ..But they are all down-sizing, and we are expanding.. Im happy(?) where I am, in my non-union company..

There is no need for unions anymore.. Hasnt been in quite some time, but they are still around, and that is a big part of why the economy sucks..

Some people take pride in their work, and some get their asses covered by the unions..

(I know that post made very little sense, and had little to do with the auto industries, but its late and my brain is shutting down)

..I will never buy an asian car..

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:35 pm

Im always gonna buy American!

bugnout · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:56 pm

I'll buy if they make what I want.

I don't think chap 11 makes any difference. Just allows them to get rid of some debt and reorganize. Hopefully that will make them competitive again and stop having to give away vehicles to keep the factories open.

On the same subject, -- I think that congress should NOT bailout the big three. They would be better off going into chap 11 and reorganizing. No bail-out means they settle their debt with their creditors, a bail out means the American taxpayer pays the big three's debt.

Shareholders and creditors must take the loss. This is how capitalism works. You make profits if you take the right risks, you have losses if you take the wrong risks.

crdjon · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:52 pm

Many years ago in Australia, where I am, "Senator Button" who passed away a short while ago was attributed to intervention to get reduce protectionism and all kinds of reforms in our car industry. Not that our car manufacture is huge by any stretch of the imagination, it has survived though.

Point im making is that the reforms were government led and supported, obviously with the companies involvement. Not quite the Car CZAR scenario though.

mike07kj · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:29 am

It amazes me that an american laid off auto worker makes close to as much as if he or she was working. My dad was a tool and die maker at ford for 35 years and he swore by the union. Before he worked there he worked in little shops, a year here and a year there but when he got on at ford he started making a good living. Anyway a lot of that money the workers get while unemployed come from their union dues. There was a show on 60 minutes not to long ago about the big 3 and for every worker at say toyota or any other foreign auto maker in america it cost about $24 an hour per employee compared to the big 3 at (not sure exactly) $74 an hour when you add in health care and pension. YES things need to change as far as how they handle costs and the unions. But they have a lot of prior commitment to retirees and their families, my mom has social security and my dads pension to live off of. Even though my dad has pasted away my mom still gets his pension, and at xmas gets a check for 750.00. IF and thats a big IF they can change things for present employees or even new employees they could spend more money on developing new and better autos. I remember back in the 70's when the trend was buying foreign when gas prices went high, if you drove a foreign car on the lot at the ford plant here it got trashed, my friend bought a new Vega and there was a coffee cup under the carpet in the back, point is employees were acting childish. Thats when you really never wanted to buy a car made on a friday or monday. There may be some auto employees that want to shoot me right now, and my dad might even be rolling over in his grave but at least they would have a job. We might be in a recession right now but if the big 3 go under we'll be in a depression. It would spiral out of control, as they say sh@t flows down hill. And as already posted here all the other companies that supply the factories will be laying off if not closing down. There I said my peace.

Will you buy if the US Auto companies file Chapter 11?

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