CRD threw a rod -- cause under investigation

crdjon · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:41 am

I had an oil change 10k ago at 20k kilometres and no problem, filter fitted ok, checked the oil before leaving the service station.

It was cold weather and the temp didnt quite get to normal, in fact it got cooler at idle. Strange I thought.

I drove 200 klms home and notice oil everywhere, had to drop the front bash plate to find that the HEX plug directly opposite the oil filter decided to start leaking badly, no one had touched im sure so it was from manufacture, tightened it and no more leak, ie from manufacture the plug was not in properly, as with some other things I came across and fixed.

I believe unusually cold conditions experienced may have been enough the have the improperly fitted plug leak.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:49 am

crdjon wrote:

I had an oil change 10k ago at 20k kilometres and no problem, filter fitted ok, checked the oil before leaving the service station.

It was cold weather and the temp didnt quite get to normal, in fact it got cooler at idle. Strange I thought.

I drove 200 klms home and notice oil everywhere, had to drop the front bash plate to find that the HEX plug directly opposite the oil filter decided to start leaking badly, no one had touched im sure so it was from manufacture, tightened it and no more leak, ie from manufacture the plug was not in properly, as with some other things I came across and fixed.

I believe unusually cold conditions experienced may have been enough the have the improperly fitted plug leak.

Thermal expansion of aluminum is almost twice that of steel. To compensate for this we torque the plugs. Also try to remember if the gasket under the plug was in tact, if so good it was just a worker who ate dinner too late.
Copper washers rarely crack and split causing the plug to come loose, but cracking of nylon plug washers does happen more than what you would want to believe.

crdjon · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:13 am

Yep, but im not talking about the drain plug. If you extend a line through the bottom of the sump in line with the oil filter you find a plug that takes a hex key in the front of the sump, thats what started leaking on mine. Im not sure that its for, perhaps you can clean out the sump through there. Perhaps even fit an oil drain input from somewhere else.....

moto-scoot · **Posted:** Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:48 pm

crdjon wrote:

Yep, but im not talking about the drain plug. If you extend a line through the bottom of the sump in line with the oil filter you find a plug that takes a hex key in the front of the sump, thats what started leaking on mine. Im not sure that its for, perhaps you can clean out the sump through there. Perhaps even fit an oil drain input from somewhere else.....

thats the mystery plug i was refering to on previous page

Ken49 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:17 am

Just received written report from CarMax's warranty group officially describing why they denied my claim. (Note that it's been 40 days since the engine failure -- and I fear that I've still got a long way to go.)

Some of the "facts" they assert include that the engine "did not contain the proper level of oil" -- even though it was perhaps a quart low when I checked it right after the engine failed. They also argued that the oil was "dirty" -- because it was black. Thought soot turns the oil in diesels black. It's always been black everytime I ever checked (though I've never checked it after only 150 miles).

They then argue that it's "not unreasonable to conclude" that the failure was caused by an 'Oil-out' -- and that I pursue the party they think is responsible for the damage.

Won't be able to post any pictures until next week. I'll also stop at the dealer who did the oil change and at the nearest CarMax that proudly sells these extended warranties to protect us from anything awful like this.

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:57 am

Ken49 wrote:

Some of the "facts" they assert include that the engine "did not contain the proper level of oil" -- even though it was perhaps a quart low when I checked it right after the engine failed. They also argued that the oil was "dirty" -- because it was black. Thought soot turns the oil in diesels black. It's always been black everytime I ever checked (though I've never checked it after only 150 miles).

I have checked mine after only about 10 miles (marking the proper full level on the dipstick actually) and it is turned pitch black in that short of a time. I assume the ash in the residual oil is enough to darken all the fresh oil. If their "dirty oil" claim is based solely on the appearance of the oil, you might request that they send it for analysis before using it as basis for denying your claim.

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 am

Ken49 wrote:

Just received written report from CarMax's warranty group officially describing why they denied my claim. (Note that it's been 40 days since the engine failure -- and I fear that I've still got a long way to go.)

Some of the "facts" they assert include that the engine "did not contain the proper level of oil" -- even though it was perhaps a quart low when I checked it right after the engine failed. They also argued that the oil was "dirty" -- because it was black. Thought soot turns the oil in diesels black. It's always been black everytime I ever checked (though I've never checked it after only 150 miles).

They then argue that it's "not unreasonable to conclude" that the failure was caused by an 'Oil-out' -- and that I pursue the party they think is responsible for the damage.

Won't be able to post any pictures until next week. I'll also stop at the dealer who did the oil change and at the nearest CarMax that proudly sells these extended warranties to protect us from anything awful like this.

you also have the DC TSB regarding the dipstick not reading correct to help in your fight as well.

crdjon · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:07 am

Where do I view this TSB from DC about the dipstick not reading correctly.

Also, Have you checked the oil filter, is it ok in side? I put a new one on the other day and the drainback inside it seems closer to the opening of the filter. You might have a problem inside the filter, not quite sure how much difference that might make if any to oil flow through the engine.

ALso, I might have missed it but where did the quart of oil go? Was there a leak. It almost sounds like a filter was fitted and the oil put in up to the line and it wasnt run to fill the filter and sent you on your way, ooopps its less oil than whats on the stick coz..... the filter is now full. They wouldnt do that to ya would they..... hmmmmm.

How many miles has your engine done. If you havent moded your EGR perhaps the oil change moved some sludge up somewhere that was not helpful.

I hope someone can help you out with this.

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:18 pm

crdjon wrote:

Where do I view this TSB from DC about the dipstick not reading correctly.

Also, Have you checked the oil filter, is it ok in side? I put a new one on the other day and the drainback inside it seems closer to the opening of the filter. You might have a problem inside the filter, not quite sure how much difference that might make if any to oil flow through the engine.

ALso, I might have missed it but where did the quart of oil go? Was there a leak. It almost sounds like a filter was fitted and the oil put in up to the line and it wasnt run to fill the filter and sent you on your way, ooopps its less oil than whats on the stick coz..... the filter is now full. They wouldnt do that to ya would they..... hmmmmm.

How many miles has your engine done. If you havent moded your EGR perhaps the oil change moved some sludge up somewhere that was not helpful.

I hope someone can help you out with this.

sorry it is listed as a service note in the DC system, you need to get someone with access to get you a copy. I had a copy but can't find it... May I suggest you PM Mr Mopar?

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:36 pm

I have not personally heard of a TSB for the dipstick not reading correctly. However, I'll put this on my to-do list for tomorrow and see what I can find.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:11 pm

I think in 2005, many dipstick tubes and dipstick got damaged in shipping and therefore gave wrong reading. I don't think there was a TSB on it.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:40 pm

I have so many questions...

1) Dirty oil?? Did they do a uoa? If not, you should. Will be tough to get a good one with the type of failure you had though.
2) Improper level of oil? Even if it was a quart low it wouldn't fail like this. How much oil poured out when the hole appeared in your block? How did they measure amount?
3) Have you talked to the servicing dealer who changed the oil? This was a preventable failure by the sound of it and either the dealer or Carmax is going to eat the repairs. Maybe they could help you.

This is the reason I do not buy third-party warranties. They make up whatever they want on warranty claims and leave the burdon of proof on you. I wish you good luck on this.

Ken49 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:08 pm

Here's five photos of the damage:
-- Hole through engine
-- Bearing Journal (#4)
-- Bearing Journal (#1)
-- Bearing Caps
-- Bearing (#?, what's left of it)

Cylinder #4 had the most damage, #1 the least.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:50 pm

Ken49 wrote:

Here's five photos of the damage:
-- Hole through engine
-- Bearing Journal (#4)
-- Bearing Journal (#1)
-- Bearing Caps
-- Bearing (#?, what's left of it)

Cylinder #4 had the most damage, #1 the least.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:59 pm

That bearing was definitely lacking in lubrication at some point. That kind of heat and friction damage does not just "happen".

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:13 pm

Did you ever get the warranty situation straightened out and/or find a new engine?

Let me know if you're still hunting for one - I know of a brand new engine that's available.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:08 am

If that resulted from low\no oil in the sump, all journals would look like that, more or less - for only one journal to fail would seem to indicate something blocking that oil passage in the block - failure analysis will require dropping the crank to determine what and where - otherwise, that bearing failed amongst itself, possibly from mfr defect, with babbit blocking the oil passage in the crankshaft

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:19 am

gmctd wrote:

If that resulted from low\no oil in the sump, all journals would look like that, more or less - for only one journal to fail would seem to indicate something blocking that oil passage in the block - failure analysis will require dropping the crank to determine what and where - otherwise, that bearing failed amongst itself, possibly from mfr defect, with babbit blocking the oil passage in the crankshaft

X2

Looks like you got a plugged oil passage or improper oil pressure(bad oil pump?).Not the result of running the engine with no oil for a min or two,or even 30 mins.

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:39 am

Im beginning to think that some of these engines have an engine oiling problem. I hope these engines havent inherited the sludge problem that the 2.7 litre engines had, I think it was the 2.7 ones that were crook. Have read elsewhere on the net about them and warranties were not honoured on those in lots of cases, even with dealership servicing.

I have listened to a few of these engines, including mine, with different oils, Im in OZ and so far our weather has been mild 20-25 degress C (mild, particularly for this time of year) with 0-40 full synthetic ashless oil the KJ is making all kinds of noises, sounds like not enough pressure up top at times (intermittent tappet noise), Im gonna go back to the 15-40 diesel magnatec (it was quieter on 15-40 anyway and seemed smoother), cant get 10-40 unfortunately in this brand of oil.

That journal got dammed hot in that pic?

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:36 am

I knew I had heard some of these engines having oiling issues, paste this into explorer if interested, not sure how we can fix em before they break though.

The fella on posting this has plenty of 2.8 litre engine parts for sale, MY2006 strip down.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NE2OWCq27_s&NR=1

CRD threw a rod -- cause under investigation

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