CRD #1 fixed, CRD #2 dead on the side of the road

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

midwest wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

And what have you offered in the way of analysis? Please enlighten/entertain us all.

There is the "entertain" word I predicted. You can't help yourself.

I pm'd you, as I think its more appropriate. It's fairly clear that you have nothing of technical merit to add to the lift pump discussion other than the fact that you've been lucky with your CRD's fuel filter.

midwest · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 am **Posts:** 173

gmctd wrote:

Remember, windchill does not affect inanimate objects: -15* with -40* windchill is still only -15* to yer KJ - you, on the other hand, should prolly seek shelter..................

Totally agree on windchill, that's why I made sure people were not confused about what I was talking about. As for the rest of it, I "prolly" will take your advice.

midwest · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 am **Posts:** 173

Ranger1 wrote:

midwest wrote:

Ranger1 wrote:

And what have you offered in the way of analysis? Please enlighten/entertain us all.

There is the "entertain" word I predicted. You can't help yourself.

I pm'd you, as I think its more appropriate. It's fairly clear that you have nothing of technical merit to add to the lift pump discussion other than the fact that you've been lucky with your CRD's fuel filter.

Fair enough Ranger, although I didn't get your pm. Remember, not everyone comes here for your "technical merit", but for that I'd defer to you everytime. I also come here to read about others "everyday" experiences with a vehicle I love.

My main beef with you is, right or wrong, your habit of being a condescending wisea$$. If that strikes a nerve with you, look in the mirror. Perhaps I am the first to inform you of this annoying trait.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:57 pm

What have I gotten myself into...I take the weekend of and you kids start arguing again.

Also getting not so nice PM's?? :shock:

I volunteered for this job, I must be crazy

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:17 am

KJ, I had a funny thought about your problem with Thing 2. Could it be possible that the little lady accidentally put gasoline in the beast? If so it may have manifested itself with dying/stalling once warmed up. I just don't see how a stuck open check valve could cause the IP to loose prime once the engine was running. The other and probably most likely scenario is water and or crap in the fuel. Liquid water making it's way into the filter element and freezing as cold highway wind blows over it, or even ice crystals can gradually plug the filter for an intermittent fuel starvation problem, which goes away as soon as it reaches melting temps (such as getting the engine warmed up and shutting it down so that heat can soak into the filter). If the filter was indeed the issue a LP may or may not have helped with the problem, but as you already know is still a good idea.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:14 am

nursecosmo wrote:

KJ, I had a funny thought about your problem with Thing 2. Could it be possible that the little lady accidentally put gasoline in the beast? If so it may have manifested itself with dying/stalling once warmed up. I just don't see how a stuck open check valve could cause the IP to loose prime once the engine was running. The other and probably most likely scenario is water and or crap in the fuel. Liquid water making it's way into the filter element and freezing as cold highway wind blows over it, or even ice crystals can gradually plug the filter for an intermittent fuel starvation problem, which goes away as soon as it reaches melting temps (such as getting the engine warmed up and shutting it down so that heat can soak into the filter). If the filter was indeed the issue a LP may or may not have helped with the problem, but as you already know is still a good idea.

That is actually a very well considered thought. She is the type that would do something like that but this time, it is magically running fine this afternoon. But if I plunge it, the thing stalls. This makes me think the fuel manager is messed up.
A Kennedy pump should be here by Wed so I shouldn't have to worry about this crap anymore. I can then work on sorting out all the
Thanks!
Chris

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:32 am

Quote:

But if I plunge it, the thing stalls. This makes me think the fuel manager is messed up.

So you add a lift pump instead of fixing what you think is wrong??? I've think I've heard this one before so good luck and I hope you fix it.

Uffe · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:24 am

gmctd wrote:

Remember, windchill does not affect inanimate objects: -15* with -40* windchill is still only -15* to yer KJ - you, on the other hand, should prolly seek shelter..................

Oh but wait, if the engine is running and the coolant is circulated through the radiator, windchill does affect your CRD.

Forced air cools better than stale air (air is actually a pretty good isolator).

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:51 am

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

But if I plunge it, the thing stalls. This makes me think the fuel manager is messed up.

So you add a lift pump instead of fixing what you think is wrong??? I've think I've heard this one before so good luck and I hope you fix it.

I think he wants extra assurance that the problem is fixed before giving it back to wife and kids to ride in it. I for one think the lift pump is of great value and solves problems for others. I sure everyone here is glad your not having problems with your vehicle but we don't need someone rub it in for those that do.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:10 pm

KJ; If the thing stalls when you push the plunger, you have a leaky seal around the shaft of the plunger. A lift pump will fix the problem in a permanent way. As if you didn't already know that.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:39 pm

Uffe wrote:

gmctd wrote:

Remember, windchill does not affect inanimate objects: -15* with -40* windchill is still only -15* to yer KJ - you, on the other hand, should prolly seek shelter..................

Oh but wait, if the engine is running and the coolant is circulated through the radiator, windchill does affect your CRD.

Forced air cools better than stale air (air is actually a pretty good isolator).

Uffe what you are describing is convective heat loss. Wind chill has no effect on vehicles. It is only applicable to humans or animals with exposed skin and is not a measure of actual temperature but rather of perceived temperature. You are right Uffe that forced air has a greater cooling effect than stationary air, but no mater how much air is moving across an object the temperature of that object cannot be cooled to less than the temperature of the air. Wind has some effect on the radiator but not as much as you may think. Remember that until the engine gets warmed up the thermostat stays closed without any coolant flow except for the very small amount of bypass. Radiator blankets can be useful especially on big diesel engines in extremely cold weather because they allow the engine bay to keep some of it's generated heat within the compartment which helps the rest of the accessories to work better. Wind has no effect on fuel jelling or filter plugging other than that, when the vehicle is shut down the fuel may reach ambient temperature more quickly than if there is no wind.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:26 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

But if I plunge it, the thing stalls. This makes me think the fuel manager is messed up.

So you add a lift pump instead of fixing what you think is wrong??? I've think I've heard this one before so good luck and I hope you fix it.

Thank you for the good suggestion, assistance and vote of confidence.

The fuel manager is such a poor design one could claim it is "broken" the moment it is built. Thus, the pump does fix the fuel manager - and appears to take care of several other design and quality flaws as well including the air-sucking, plastic fuel line fittings. It certainly makes it easy (and possible!) to bleed the system with the flick of the ignition and crack of the bleeder valve - something not possible with a "fixed" fuel manager and no pump. Nonetheless, as soon as I can afford it I intend to get rid of the DC fuel manager in favor of a Racor or other properly designed unit. That will be the ultimate fix.

- C

PS - I hope this isn't going to turn into a referendum on lift pumps :roll:

The whole debate concerning lift pumps in this forum is nearly as long as the debate on whether or not you need the EGR. After all my reading and personal experience I'm perfectly comfortable being a pro-pump, Anti-EGR person. The pump is needed, the EGR ain't.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:18 pm

FYI - I went from the original fuel head to the new improved one and it seems to work better - the molded area around the heater plug is much thicker - it looks like it won't break down as easily.
(I would have gone to Racor - but I still have some warranty left)

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:08 pm

Agreed, Nursecosmo - and which is why the fuel-return cooler should be placed in the return-line

The primer pump fails either when one\both of the one-way valves start two-wayin', which is no big deal if you add a lift pump, or the plunger-rod seal starts leaking, in which case adding a lift pump would be an ill-advised fix - 'course, you could pop the primer cover, remove the rod, tap the cover to take an NPT plug fitting to seal the opening, reinstall

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:24 pm

gmctd wrote:

Agreed, Nursecosmo - and which is why the fuel-return cooler should be placed in the return-line

The primer pump fails either when one\both of the one-way valves start two-wayin', which is no big deal if you add a lift pump, or the plunger-rod seal starts leaking, in which case adding a lift pump would be an ill-advised fix - 'course, you could pop the primer cover, remove the rod, tap the cover to take an NPT plug fitting to seal the opening, reinstall

Cooling the fuel before it goes to the tank makes more sense than cooling it between the fuel heater and the CP3 that heats it up. Shut off the heater except in winter and performance is enhanced.

Besides, who cares if a bubble gets into the return line to the tank.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:10 pm

Quote:

I sure everyone here is glad your not having problems with your vehicle but we don't need someone rub it in for those that do.

I did have problems. I fixed them with a new filter head.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:18 pm

....warm blooded beings, more air flowing through any air to something else heat exchanger will dissipate more BTUs per hour. But the Laws of Physics agree that you can not lower the temperature of the something else in the heat exchanger below the ambient temperature, with out having some kind of refrigeration device or system.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:24 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

....warm blooded beings, more air flowing through any air to something else heat exchanger will dissipate more BTUs per hour. But the Laws of Physics agree that you can not lower the temperature of the something else in the heat exchanger below the ambient temperature, with out having some kind of refrigeration device or system.

Oh man.....deja vu, we just had a thread that got off onto windchill on another jeep forum:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:35 pm

Q = -hA(Ts – T)

as (Ts-T) => 0 the heat transfer goes to 0

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:25 am

Aw crud, here I spent the last 12 years trying to forget all that nuke crap they crammed down my throat for 20 years in the Navy, and someone drags out heat transfer and fluid flow equations!! :roll:

I might have to start remembering that stuff though - got an offer tonight to set up an interview for getting on with a civilian nuke plant in Fla. Surprised the heck outta me - figured at 50 I was too old for them to even consider - guess with the way they downsized the Navy in the last decade, the supply of ex-Navy Nucs is getting kind of slim.

CRD #1 fixed, CRD #2 dead on the side of the road

Who is online