Dangerous stalls today in heavy traffic! (even the onramp)

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:54 am

By golly it has been at least a month without problems on my 05 so I suppose I'm past due for some trouble!
Here is my latest head-scratcher.

This one was flat out dangerous: Intermittent stalling during acceleration in heavy traffic. It started at 4PM after no problems earlier in the day.

The scenario:

Parked at the hardware store 40 minutes, came back out, started up & drove 2 blocks & it died. Completely. Not the "normal" limp mode or cutting out it does but completely dead. It then started back up with no hesitation. It then threw a CEL.

* Died again 30 seconds later in heavy traffic (& no place to pull off).
* Then again 5 minutes later.
* And then no problems once I got on the highway at 50 mph.
* I picked up my son & drove into town sweating bullets in traffic again....and no problems.
* Decided to take it out onto the freeway for an Italian tuneup...it stalled on the onramp! By then I was seriously PO so I put it into 2nd gear and nailed it thinking I would either fix it or break it. It cut out again but this time I had enough momentum that it came back on again and then cut out and came back on again while flying down the highway full throttle. Each "off" lasted about 3-4 seconds before it would come back on again.
* I went to the station, filled the tank and checked everything I could see.
* Headed home.....no problems...until I got to THE blind corner heading up toward my house. Very steep, sharp extremely dangerous place for a stall. I kept thinking "if it actually stalls on this corner I'm in serious trouble." Well, of course it actually did stall there - which nearly did cause an accident with a Ford Excursion flying up behind me.
* My 3 year old son kept asking "why does the engine keep stopping daddy?" "But why?" "Yeah, but why?" and so forth. In exasperation I said "Because daddy's car is a piece of feces!" To which he replied "But WHY is it feces?" and so forth.

* Each time I was able to start it up immediately after the stall.
* The air temperature was about 82 deg.
* The AC was on most of the day - and I did a lot of driving.
* A lot of heavy traffic.
* I checked the MAP sensor & it is fairly clean.
* I'm not sure if it is related or not but the SOB overheated on the way up my driveway. Yes, this happens anyway from time to time even when it is running well, but it happened this time too....

It has done it's little stalling routine before - but very infrequently (For a CRD. For any other car it would be a selling offense). This time it threw a CEL at the same time and the engine completely shut off. The route I travel to work has NO room for error. If my car stalls on the I-90 floating bridge or any of the other road I drive, I will be THE stalled car that gets reported in the morning traffic news backing up traffic for miles and causing accidents! Perhaps I should ride my dirt bike until I figure out this latest problem with this POS - heck it has a license plate and always starts!
-------------------------
Because this car has an unending series of weird troubles that seem to crop up every few weeks or so I have considered getting a code reader like everyone else. I saw some at Harbor Freight the other day for a very reasonable price:
* Does the $40 Harbor Freight reader work OK?
* Is there anything other brand that has any particular advantages?
* Do I need any particular TYPE of reader. In other words, are there some that only read Ford codes etc?? I only briefly looked at them in the store but figured I would ask here before buying.
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MNKK · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:08 am

No help on why, but at least your kid shows some sort of interest in mechanics...No, not funny? Hmm... :lol:

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:20 am

Based on the behavior, was it more like the electricals cutting out or an unexplained stalling (where only the engine stopped)? I know your sig says you have a lift pump, but is it working properly (i.e. check the fuse, and see if you can pump the head manually at all). The behavior reminds me of when I had the fuel filter on too tight distorting the gasket... and also when I had bio gel in the tank...but I don't think that's your problem

Dan

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks for the suggestions.
* Not sure what in the electrical would be responsible for this...
* Bio has been tested and is perfect. Nonetheless, I ran a fresh tank of dino for comparison with zero difference.
* Yep, my son is in the asking "why" "but why" "but why daddy" stage. In this case I can only tell him the truth: This car is an unpredictable, temperamental POS. And, if I did not have so much invested in it, if I had another affordable option for a diesel 4X4, I'd ghost ride it off a cliff and cheer when it hit the bottom. Nothing but trouble from day #1 when the CEL went off 10 minutes after I bought it. And dangerous problems at that.
* Customer service is utterly useless. Thus far, they have only managed to neuter the car - not actually fix anything no matter how many pages of this forum I bring to them.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:34 am

The only time I've had a problem like that it was bad fuel - ended up dumping in a lot of Power Service and replacing a fuel filter.

How old is the fuel filter?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:39 am

KeighJeigh wrote:

* Does the $40 Harbor Freight reader work OK?
* Is there anything other brand that has any particular advantages?
* Do I need any particular TYPE of reader. In other words, are there some that only read Ford codes etc?? I only briefly looked at them in the store but figured I would ask here before buying.
------------------------------

Generally the more you spend the more options you get.

Habor freight code reader:
http://lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtop ... ode+reader

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 pm

It sounds (to me) like what we typically see when the fuel filter is plugged enough... it stalls after bursts of heavy demand as air builds up in the filter head, I think the additional vacuum pulls in air at the snap-on connectors, or perhaps via cavitation (??). At any rate, a new filter often cures. Until then, bleed it at the filter and pump it up; may help some.

What is the code, btw? That's often a good clue, if you can find a AutoZone or some place that'll read it for you.

Mark

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:34 pm

It sucks that it's giving you so much trouble. The cheap HF code reader works, but it's a challenge. You have to power the reader by plugging it in partly by angling in the right side of the connector, untill it's past the CAN stuff. Then you can use it normally.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:36 pm

Thanks!

The MAP sensor was not particularly dirty when I checked it last night - certainly not nearly as dirty as I have seen it previously - but for grins I cleaned the livn' hell out of it, blasted it with an air hose, talked to it nicely.....and hocus pocus it runs fine and the CEL went off.
I too thought it might be fuel but my wife & I filled from the same batch at the same time. (oddly she has never had all the issues with her 06 that I have with my 05).

Is it possible for the MAP to "age" with each cleaning such that it gets more sensitive to debris?
Also, how the MAP would be associated with this kind of behavior?

I'm gettin' me a code reader! (Now, if I can only get a Code Talker to de-neuter this thing...)

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:55 pm

GMCTD pointed out that the pressure sealing type "O" ring pop on fuel lines can suck air with an inline type pump like your Kennedy or my Carter. Air bubbles can cause all of the problems you are having on any diesel engine, even an old diesel tractor engine. When you do the rev up you are attempting to purge the bubbles, but that does not always work. Engine dies and the bubbles go to the top of the filter head and out of the line, engine restarts and runs.

If you pump the hand primer and get bubbles ask GMCTD for the thread showing the potential vacuum leakers between you pump and fuel tank top.

Good Luck

I have the $55 HF code scanner, works OK.

Endurance · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:11 pm

MNKK wrote:

No help on why, but at least your kid shows some sort of interest in mechanics...No, not funny? Hmm... :lol:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:37 pm

UFO wrote:

It sucks that it's giving you so much trouble. The cheap HF code reader works, but it's a challenge. You have to power the reader by plugging it in partly by angling in the right side of the connector, untill it's past the CAN stuff. Then you can use it normally.

I dont have any of those problems.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:57 am

warp2diesel wrote:

GMCTD pointed out that the pressure sealing type "O" ring pop on fuel lines can suck air with an inline type pump like your Kennedy or my Carter. Air bubbles can cause all of the problems you are having on any diesel engine, even an old diesel tractor engine. When you do the rev up you are attempting to purge the bubbles, but that does not always work. Engine dies and the bubbles go to the top of the filter head and out of the line, engine restarts and runs.
If you pump the hand primer and get bubbles ask GMCTD for the thread showing the potential vacuum leakers between you pump and fuel tank top.
Good Luck
I have the $55 HF code scanner, works OK.

I had read about the air problem so when I installed the lift pump I cut those pop-on fittings out and replaced them with tight fitting hose and hose clamps. I also installed the pump as close to the fuel tank as possible. When this problem began, I did think about air bubbles and did indeed check the plunger for spongy feeling that I had noticed when I changed the filter a few months ago. But, it was rock solid. When I had air in the lines after my filter change it ran badly for a half hour or so as I bled the lines but it would start hard too ...and then cough and sputter. This time, it was not bogging down or running badly, it just completely stalled and then started back up again immediately. As I was coasting I would simply turn the key off and then back on and it would start right up.

It hasn't happened again since I reported it, even during a particularly heavy traffic day today.

My son, however, is still asking why the engine was turning off the other day. Now that I have calmed down, I simply tell him "it's a diesel thing, you wouldn't understand." Unfortunately, neither do I.
Yet.

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

We are having a similar problem. I suspect that it's a plugged filter issue, but we're systematically ruling out the possible causes.

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:55 am

Another vote for plugged filter. After a batch of bio gelled on me a few months ago this is exactly what it did. I'd be driving along and it would just quit. Even with straight dino three tanks later it would do it. Mine never restarted on its own, but I don't have a lift pump so once I get air I have to stop and pump. Replacing the filter resolved the problem for me. That filter only had about 10K miles on it too...

Good luck.

mackruss · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:28 pm

KeighJeigh wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

GMCTD pointed out that the pressure sealing type "O" ring pop on fuel lines can suck air with an inline type pump like your Kennedy or my Carter. Air bubbles can cause all of the problems you are having on any diesel engine, even an old diesel tractor engine. When you do the rev up you are attempting to purge the bubbles, but that does not always work. Engine dies and the bubbles go to the top of the filter head and out of the line, engine restarts and runs.
If you pump the hand primer and get bubbles ask GMCTD for the thread showing the potential vacuum leakers between you pump and fuel tank top.
Good Luck
I have the $55 HF code scanner, works OK.

I had read about the air problem so when I installed the lift pump I cut those pop-on fittings out and replaced them with tight fitting hose and hose clamps. I also installed the pump as close to the fuel tank as possible. When this problem began, I did think about air bubbles and did indeed check the plunger for spongy feeling that I had noticed when I changed the filter a few months ago. But, it was rock solid. When I had air in the lines after my filter change it ran badly for a half hour or so as I bled the lines but it would start hard too ...and then cough and sputter. This time, it was not bogging down or running badly, it just completely stalled and then started back up again immediately. As I was coasting I would simply turn the key off and then back on and it would start right up.

It hasn't happened again since I reported it, even during a particularly heavy traffic day today.

My son, however, is still asking why the engine was turning off the other day. Now that I have calmed down, I simply tell him "it's a diesel thing, you wouldn't understand." Unfortunately, neither do I.
Yet.

Well did you have a problem with her before you installed the lift pump or did you install the lift pump for precautionary measures

UFO · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:43 pm

This scenario is designed for a fuel pressure gauge after the filter. It will tell you if you are getting pressure to your injection pump, because that is the exact symptom of fuel starvation and the drastic action the ECM takes to protect the pump. Even with a lift pump, a blocked filter will not flow fuel.

mackruss · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:46 pm

[quote="KeighJeigh* My 3 year old son kept asking "why does the engine keep stopping daddy?" "But why?" "Yeah, but why?" and so forth. In exasperation I said "Because daddy's car is a piece of feces!" To which he replied "But WHY is it feces?" and so forth.

Isn't feces spelt faeces or is that the US way of spelling it?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:26 pm

mackruss wrote:

[quote="KeighJeigh* My 3 year old son kept asking "why does the engine keep stopping daddy?" "But why?" "Yeah, but why?" and so forth. In exasperation I said "Because daddy's car is a piece of feces!" To which he replied "But WHY is it feces?" and so forth.

Isn't feces spelt faeces or is that the US way of spelling it?

Yes, un-hun, yep, yeah, what you said, oh don't get me going. :-)r

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:26 am

One more vote for a plugged fuel filter. Classic sign. You need to check if you have a P0093.

Dangerous stalls today in heavy traffic! (even the onramp)

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