Suncoast Decision Making

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:41 pm

Suncoast strongly suggests installing their $800 clutch pack along with their $700 (after core return) TC.

I would appreciate people responding with their experience and thoughts.

I assume many have just done the TC without the clutch pack.

(My wife tows a 4500 lb horse trailer several states away. Nothing's worse than a tow vehicle failure when you have a trailer with live animals aboard.)

Thanks,

DOC

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:04 pm

The Hemi SRT crowd has had a TCM upgrade to improve shift-quality, which they regularly make use of in amateur and professional rapid-acceleration events - thus, the upgraded clutch-paks are required for their Transgo'ed 545RFE slush-boxes, along with the upgraded TCC - we use the same upgraded TCC and Transgo kit, but do not have the added pleasure of the TCM upgrade, as noone has yet broken the EATX code(s), so, no, your KJ 545RFE does not need the hi-perf clutch-pak - however, if you got the gedosis, then have Suncost upgrade the entire set of clutch-pak assemblies in the trans - couldn't hurt (butcept for the pocketbook!).........

FYI: the only difference in the Hemi SRT and Grand Cherokee 4.7 545RFE and the KJ CRD 545RFE is the main case - the bellhousing bolt-pattern and configuration is different, where the CRD starter is mounted driver-side above the crank centerline, the V8 starter is mounted passenger-side below the crank centerline - all other mechanical parts are identical - the Hemi TCC gets lower stall speed than the 4.7 and CRD TCC - all have the plastic stator, but the KJ CRD has greater low-end torque, where the torque-multiplying stator is required, and thusly, destroyed

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:11 pm

Our local dealer has apparently agreed to install a Suncoast TC (provided by us) while repairing a rear main seal oil leak, under warranty.

It appears that when the F37 was done (by another dealer), the TC was replaced, but not the pump. Even though they told me that with every recall THEY have done on a CRD, they have ALSO put in the upgraded pump, if there is nothing "wrong" with the pump we have now, we would have to pay for it if we want it installed.

I wonder if Mr. Mopar or others can weigh in here with some wisdom as to some way this might be approached to convince them to "complete" the previous recall.

Thanks,

DOC

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I am just curious about the cost of a Suncoast vs OEM. I have no plans to make a change and do not have the technical ability so I would have to go to a local tranny shop. Is the Suncoast unit more expensive? Is the added expense for parts only or is their more labor involved too?

Again, just curious

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:29 pm

Are they recommending the clutch packs because you told them you regularly tow a 4500 lb horse trailer, or are they recommending them as standard issue along with the TC now regardless of what the vehicle is used for?

If their recommendation is based on towing the trailer - 4500 lb is pretty close to the factory rated 5000 lbs - I'd give some due consideration to what they recommend.

FWIW, nearly two years ago when I had mine installed, I asked about the hi-perf clutch packs. At the time, they said unless the vehicle was going to be hot-rodded (ie, chip or module to drastically increse HP/torque) or see severe duty (frequent towing might fall into that category), the standard clutch packs would be more than sufficient for normal daily driver duties.

Could also be they've discovered subsequently that our little torque monster of an engine is just too much for the OEM clutch packs.

Bottom line, you need to ask them WHY they're recommending the hi-perf clutch packs.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:52 pm

Retmil46,

BEFORE I mentioned anything about what we are using the CRD for, they immediately and strongly suggested the $800 clutch pack "unless you like taking your transmission out on a regular basis". Having spoken with someone else there a couple months ago who didn't even mention the availability of an "upgraded" clutchpack, I thought I would try to get a broader based opinion from the forum members.

Also, when you look up their Jeep CRD products on their website, there is no mention of an "upgraded" clutchpack product.

If you go through all the posts here over the past couple of years, there have been a whole host of people who have had a nunber of different issues with Suncoast installs. While some may be due to installation mistakes, there are too many of different types to make me comfortable with going ahead quite yet.

Our CRD works really well now, with all the mods we have made. We have an extended warranty that will take care of a TC failure, if it occurs.

I'd like to head such a failure off, but based on several other peoples' experience, it seems I could easily spend $2000+ and end up with driveability problems we don't have now.

I will continue to look forward to everyone who is kind enough to weigh in with their experience.

DOC

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:21 pm

I'd try e-mailing Ron Wolverton himself. He's the head honcho, and the same guy who designed the Suncoast TC for our CRD's. He's the one that stated for normal useage the OEM clutch packs should be more than adequate. Could be that something has changed in the last two years (ie, Chrysler going to a cheaper supplier) that's caused them or him to change their recommendation.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:58 pm

retmil46: Since you have the Suncoast and other mods would an oil analysis on your trans oil tell a lot of truth?
I would think that if there were a problem, it would show up with a lot more junk in the oil.

Just a thought.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:25 pm

DOC444

I've been here sine June 06 and have read just about every transmission thread there is :shock:

When the F-37 was done per instructions the pump was replaced only if a noise could be heard coming from inside the torque converter. In that case they replaced the pump along with the ac condensor/transmission cooler. But as the early replacements were done a whole host of problems developed from bad sealing where the pump and TC meet. So to avoid recalls some (most) service departments "saw the light" and "heard the noise" :wink:

Your new dealer has the advantage of hind sight :lol:

Also if they followed the instructions you left the dealer low on transmission fluid

It was a real ugly time in the life of the CRD

A thought. They will have to remove the transmission and torque converter to replace your rear main seal. So they are risking a problem when they put it all back together of having a leak. You might want to approach him with the "what if it leaks?" question :lol:

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:41 pm

gmctd wrote:

The Hemi SRT crowd has had a TCM upgrade to improve shift-quality, which they regularly make use of in amateur and professional rapid-acceleration events - thus, the upgraded clutch-paks are required for their Transgo'ed 545RFE slush-boxes, along with the upgraded TCC - we use the same upgraded TCC and Transgo kit, but do not have the added pleasure of the TCM upgrade, as noone has yet broken the EATX code(s), so, no, your KJ 545RFE does not need the hi-perf clutch-pak - however, if you got the gedosis, then have Suncost upgrade the entire set of clutch-pak assemblies in the trans - couldn't hurt (butcept for the pocketbook!).........

FYI: the only difference in the Hemi SRT and Grand Cherokee 4.7 545RFE and the KJ CRD 545RFE is the main case - the bellhousing bolt-pattern and configuration is different, where the CRD starter is mounted driver-side above the crank centerline, the V8 starter is mounted passenger-side below the crank centerline - all other mechanical parts are identical - the Hemi TCC gets lower stall speed than the 4.7 and CRD TCC - all have the plastic stator, but the KJ CRD has greater low-end torque, where the torque-multiplying stator is required, and thusly, destroyed

All SRT-powered vehicles use the W5A580 transmission, none of them have ever use the 545. The 545 was only used in body-on-frame 5.7 hemi applications (truck/durango, etc). All 5.7L hemi in LX-platform cars (charger, 300, etc.) used the A580 as well.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:12 am

Ok - neb'mind on the SRT stuff, then - I tho't I had read someone refering to the Hemi Sport trucks as SRT's...................

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:02 am

And, if it tells you anything for the long run, all the VM diesels in RWD applications will use the A580 as well (currently only JK uses the 545 but that will change)

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:28 am

Mr. M,

Any thoughts on how much the upgraded clutchpack is needed when installing a Suncoast TC?

Also, if it turns out that I did not receive an upgraded OEM pump with the F37 recall (probably the case since a new TC is on the work order, but NOT a pump), how important is it to "bite the bullet" and pay for a new pump?

Thanks Again,

DOC

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:19 am

MrMopar64: I bought my '06 CRD two years ago from a Dealer who got it from the Chrysler employee lease program with just under 18K on the odometer.
Are records kept some place where they can be retrieved and I can check to see if the Transmission pump has been upgraded?
I did check the recall stuff and found every one involving new parts was done such as ball joints and blower motor.

I like to make plans and not be caught waiting for parts.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:24 am

Have a dealer run a VIP report. You may get lucky.

DOC

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:32 am

DOC,

Given the peak torque output of the engine, I don't think that the upgraded clutch packs are needed for the KJ diesel. Because the engine is a 4-cyl with high torque, the torsionals are higher which is the need for the beefiest TC you can use (i.e. Suncoast). I think you'll be okay with just the TC. If anything, I think the best results have been with TC + Shift kit.

As for the pump, there were a few design improvements to help with drain back after sitting over night and with the seal design. If yours hasn't been having any problems, it's a toss up then. But, if the pump cost isn't that bad (maybe $150-200), it might be cheaper in the long run to have it swapped now (doesn't take long) as opposed to having to pull it all again in the long run. I'm not sure, but does Suncoast recommend the new pump with the TC or do they not care?

Warp,

If you take the last 8 digits of the VIN to the dealer and have them run it, it will report back any and all service work done to the car at a Chrysler dealer. Now, if for some reason the previous owner had it done at an independent shop then there's no way to tell unless you pull it. But, given the history I doubt that'd be the case.

dgeist · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:02 pm

Does anyone know if SC does installs at their HQ? I just realized I'm vacationing about 10 miles from there in a few months and would love to have them do a TC install if I could swing it.

Dan

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:36 pm

As for the new design pump - myself, Ranger1, and one other individual who all had our Suncoast's installed by my local tranny shop - we specifically asked Ron Wolverton and the gent running the shop if it would be necessary to replace the original tranny pump with the new design.

Both Ron and my tranny guy said that the original pump would be adequate with the Suncoast TC and the Transgo shift kit - Ron actually stated that the original CRD he modified for a gent with TS Performance in KY went back home with the original pump still in place.

However, both of them also felt - same as MrMopar stated - that the new design pump was significantly improved over the original version - and that it would definitely be worthwhile, from the standpoint of longevity and reliability, to go ahead and install the new design pump while the tranny was already out of the vehicle for installing the Suncoast TC and shift kit.

The new design pump is virtually identical to the one that goes in the 68RE tranny in newer Dodge Cummins pickups. If it can hold up behind a Cummins....

Some people did have problems when just replacing the TC - the seals do tend to harden and set up with age/mileage - and ended up developing leaks when either the new pump or a new set of seals weren't installed along with the new TC. If you decide not to install the new pump as well, I'd at least check on installing a new set of seals to preclude this.

Best I remember, my tranny shop was able to get a new design pump for around $160 - but that was almost 2 years ago, price may have changed.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:44 pm

Most DCJ parts vendors ask for the VIN - they run the VIN, which displays the complete as-assembled parts list for that build code, to ensure they are sending the correct part for that specific build code - thusly, they can also tell you which revision part was installed on the vehicle as it moved down the production assembly line -

the original pump is p\n 5073004AD, the cover is 4799609

the revised pump is p\n 68009879AA, the cover is 68009859AA

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:26 pm

545RFE Mega Kit
Complete High Performance Clutch Kit for Your Jeep
1999-07
Part No. 545-ECK
Price: $853.00

What can Sun Coast do for your Hemi?

We have compiled and/or manufactured the best parts and put in a kit form for easy install and optimum results for your 545RFE transmission. Our Mega Overhaul Kit is proven with 400 plus HP. Easy to install kit comes with custom machined parts, all gaskets, clutches, seals, TransGo reprogramming kit, and Accumulator kit.

I haven't seen any 2.8L CRDs cranking out 400+ HP yet, PLEASE correct me if I am Wrong

Suncoast Decision Making

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