Reading about the subject is a better way to enlightenment.
For a 10 minute introduction: http://www.prairiefirenewspaper.com/200 ... ized-labor

EXCELLENT read, here is part 2 and part 3 of that piece. PLEASE take the time to read it. Even as a union member, I learned some stuff from these.

http://www.prairiefirenewspaper.com/2009/02/understanding-organized-labor

http://www.prairiefirenewspaper.com/2009/03/understanding-organized-labor

While these articles are supportive of labor (which gets a lot of credit for improving workplace safety), my membership in a union was distinguished by a total disregard of the accounting for and uses of the members dues by the officers. In particular, the business agent drove around in a Chrysler Imperial, which I'm sure my dues helped pay for. And, an inquiry about a financial statement from the union got me a dirty look and statement that it was none of my business!. And, even today, unions have little government oversight on their finances, and don't report their finances to members. This is a situation where better transparency is badly needed.

Unfortunately, the UAW apparently contributed to the sale of Chrysler by Daimler Benz. Apparently, when Dieter Zietsche (I hope I've spelled it right), asked for a contract similar to what GM and Ford had gotten, he was told by Ron Gettlefinger that since Daimler was making money, the UAW was not going to give Daimler the same contract. Zietsche was furious over this, he made a remark to the effect that "It appears that Daimler has to lose 10 billion euros to get a level playing field". Shortly after this, the decision to sell Chrysler was made.

...crooked corrupt bosses. The only reason they can't is the corrupt politicians who create the laws.
Stock holders should be able to do the same with crooked CEOs.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

I cannot speak to the activities of any specific local other than my own, but I do have access to the financials if I so choose to request them. In your situation, I would have brought that problem up with the next layer up, be it the national board for your union or the NLRB themselves. I have issues with my own local too, but those relate to the fact that we are being badly undercut by non-organized providers in my area, AND that the business agent does not rotate the work list, even among the few card holders that we have. This is a BIG problem for me, because it means that the E-board gets 90% of the work (as it is mostly small calls) and the opportunities for other card holders are restricted to the few larger gigs we get each YEAR. I also think that my local needs to be more flexible in negotiation, as a working local (even at a slightly lower rate) is STILL making more than a non-working local. But that is something that I have brought up at the local level, because I am involved in the process.

When our next votes come up, I will be expressing my displeasure on a ballot if things have not improved, and I am still here. I cannot control the amount of work, but I can work to make my union's negotiations more effective to bring work to the members.

For the unionized workers that do not produce, there are procedures in place (or should be) within the local that should be taking care of the unproductive workers and moving them OUT of those jobs. We do not have the full story, but YES, I have seen goldbricks in my own work calls as well. Sometimes these are people that have injured themselves slightly, and are just not capable of the same level of output. I can respect that, as I would expect the same courtesy if I pulled a muscle or something non-disabling. But the ones that I see just farting around and getting paid for it? The ones that have told me personally that I need to "slow down and pace myself" on the gig? I don't see them working that much anymore. (Ok, them not working was kinda the point I was making, but they aren't ON the gigs anymore) These were UNIVERSALLY the oldest members of the local, but ALL of us were outshined by one particular member: A guy named Leo. Leo was WELL into his 80s, and STILL out working as a stagehand. I'm not sure if he's still around, I haven't been down in South Florida for almost a year now, but he was ALWAYS moving something around and doing some task at the gig. He made a point of yelling at the guys 30 years younger than him when they were slacking off, and they deserved it.

We need more union members like Leo. People like him get the bad influences out of unions, and unions get the bad influences out of the workplace. Then EVERYBODY makes more money, including the owners.

The fallacy is what the Republicans and the Bushies have said for the last 30 years: "Business can be self-regulating because they will naturally do what is right" Oh really? If you saw a 42" plasma HDTV new-in-the-box or a shiny MacPro Laptop sitting in a shopping cart in an empty parking lot... Knowing that you would NOT be penalized by the government, would you take it inside and pay for it, or load it into your trunk?

Business knows how to answer that question, and it doesn't involve entering the store.

Well - in Texas they have a 'Right to Work' law - so you don't have to join a union to have a job.

as a result - people don't join and the unions collapse under their own weight.

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Kansas is also a right to work state and people do join the union to make a good living wage. At the aircraft plants you have a choice, but even if you choose not to join you still make the union wage. Without the union everybody would make alot less.

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2003 KJ Renegade, 5 speed, frankenlifted,Al's a Arms 4.5,Moabs 245/75/16 BFG KM2's, custom rock rails, full Mopar skids, Hella ff220 lights,Hd cooling,Front DTT,Riddler diff cover,Rola safari rack,Cobra 29 peaked & tuned.

Pastafari Alum, Pink shovel recipient

Don't know where Kansas is in the equation - but this is the WSJ on Texas vs Ohio (note - Mar08)

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120450306595906431.html

and one of the comments is that 'right to work' states have 2x the job growth of union states

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

And half the pay.

Yet, the cost of the goods that are being made for half the price as elsewhere are.... wait for it... STILL priced the same as if the higher-earning people made them. Thats called profit margin, and its GREAT for business.
But do those people in the southern states all drive around in new cars? NOPE! I've lived in both West Virginia and Kentucky in the poorer sections where the people are working for some of these "great" companies. The cars they are driving probably should be condemned in most cases. The customers of these companies are NOT their workers, they cannot afford what they make with the wages that they are paid.

But that is good for business...
As long as your customers aren't also your workers. THAT is the fallacy in the race to the bottom. There was a race to the bottom in the 1920s too. The cheaper something could be made, the better for business, b/c that meant more profits. But if your lowest paid workers can't afford to buy what they are making, THE CUSTOMER BASE WILL RUN OUT.

That is exactly what we are seeing now. Greed and avarice have caused this mess, because business by it's very nature has NO MORALS of any sort. Regulation and oversight is NEEDED to ensure fairness. Unions are a form of regulation, because they bring the potential of a strike as the stick to encourage fairness in wages.

Barry the Bamster, the communist in chief has attempted to give 55% of the company to the UAW. If that is allowed to go thru this company will be sold off for scrap in less than five years! That has never worked anytime it's ever been tried. Thankfully it looks like most of the bond holders aren't being intimidated by the Bamsters Chicago thugery, and that the company WILL go before a judge for proper bankrupsy procedures.

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2006 KJ CRD Ltd - Suncoast, GDE Eco, EGR Delete, After market T-Stat, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back
2005 KJ CRD Sport-Suncoast, Transco, GDE Hot-GDE Trans, EGR Delete, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back, After market S-Stat
1987 Suzuki LWB Samurai -diesel powered, custom 4 link coil suspension 38.5 SX Swampers

Teamsters and most of the trade unions are fairly reasonable with their work attitude, pay and benefits, but there are exceptions. I would never extend the term reasonable to the UAW.
If the Unions were smart they would operate more like the NRA and not favor a party but individual elected officials who support their views.
An intelligent Union Boss speech should go like," We don't care who you vote for as long as they support us".
As far as the UAW goes, their bosses should be put in the same prison as the Wall Street crooks, terrorists, and drug dealers.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Anyone who has dealt with unions know they hamper business more than help business. At the plant where I work, we got a huge order in for a different product than our plant was designed for. However, we could move machines around and change the layout a bit to make these products. The union hemmed and hawed, stalled and over a year passed before they agreed to the change. Unfortunately, we lost the order because we could not meet the customer's time requirements due to the union's delay. The company could have provided a lot of jobs, but the union got in the way.

I will never buy the line that unions just want to help the worker. It is just not that way in reality.

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2005 Limited CRD

I used to work at a union shop. The group I worked with was not part of the union. The unions were tradesmen for the most part, electrical, plumbing, mechanics, etc. Anyway, they certainly had the skills to accomplish the simple things that our projects usually required...things like extension cords, adjustments to heavy shelving arrays, etc. We had a dedicated person in our group (of about 8 ppl) whose job it was to find loopholes that allowed us to not use union personnel. It's sad, but their reputation as a PITA was set. I never had to deal with them in 6 years of working there.

My experiences since then have continued to cast unions in a negative light. At this point I cheer when a store or plant gets closed as it tries to unionize. If it were my business I like to think I'd throw in the towel too.

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2006 CRD Limited
SEGR Mod
Saikou Michi Condenser -- Deleted
Samco Hose Kit
Fumoto 102
Etecno1 GX3123 Steel 7V Glow Plugs
GDE FT Eco and Hot Tunes
JBA 4.5 UCAs
OME Lift

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SOLD!!!
2005 Liberty Renegade
STT CustomSTUFF
4" Stump Lift.
JBA UCA's
245/75/16 GOODYEAR DURA TRACS


Thanks for throwing me under the bus Evil... Just remember this when you decide to turn yours back in to a... Real Jeep.

Get those wages down to Third World level where they belong. Give the CEOs whatever they ask. Keep those bonuses coming for Wall Streeters, and keep the
Cayman Island tax shelters free and strong. Oh, and keep borrowing more money from China to fight the Global and Eternal War on Terror and to bring democracy and privatization to any geographical area with oil reserves.

How common are statements like this? ehh.. no comment.

Back to another real world example about unions. At work, I can't even put a picture hanger in my wall to hang something. A union guy has to do it, (so I don't hurt myself). It's crazy. I could nail in a hook in 2 seconds, but the unions require the company to pay a union guy an hours wage to travel to my office, install the hook, then travel back. It's insanity, and another example of wasting money that drives up product prices and makes us less competitive with our foreign counterparts.

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2005 Limited CRD

Yup, had that happen to me. On this job I had to loan my tools to an IBEW electrician so he could move the wires to the correct terminals on an actuator that another IBEW hooked up wrong. But I could clean out a ASCO Solenoid valve that got stuck open with Pipe dope debris. Also I could use my tools to adjust the float switch, but i could not install it.
In Canada, I could not install the equipment, but when the parts needed to be replaced under warranty, it was my job, I was not steeling their work. Sound complicated When I was in the Middle East, I could only use my tools to teach them how to do it, there are no Labor Unions over there, just crappy third world traditions.
It varies from local to local and day to day, nothing is consistent.
At least, I can still work on and mod my own Jeep, Yeah

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

when the guy sweeping floors for the uaw makes $25 an hour while we contractors in there working on fork lifts are making $15 like the rest of the world I'm thinking these people are over paid. When the uaw welder is making $37.75 an hour and stops working 45 min early so he can take a shower. This is just what i've personally seen at ground level. I have worked in factories making $12- $15 and made a good living and worked hard. To see how the unions have made the workers is sickining. Wipe the slate clean and start over as a typical AMERICAN company not an automotive super power

_________________
SOLD!!!
2005 Liberty Renegade
STT CustomSTUFF
4" Stump Lift.
JBA UCA's
245/75/16 GOODYEAR DURA TRACS


Thanks for throwing me under the bus Evil... Just remember this when you decide to turn yours back in to a... Real Jeep.

Been there and done that but I repaired computers. Were they required to transport your tools to the work area? Happened to me once. Another time I had to drive my beat up S-10 POS 80 miles each way to a distant GM plant. If you didn't drive a GM product you had to park in a remote lot where things were known to happen. I was not going to subject my tdi to that. I parked my fine example of a GM pos "honey do" truck right at the front door I also did repairs at Honda plants here in Ohio. Totally different situation in all respects from the beginning of the driveway in. Pleasant security guards, clean grassy areas, clean bright plants, everyone in white uniforms.
For Honda employees taking the termination package the benefits are good too.
$1,000 for each year on the job.
$17,000 termination pay
And one year's pay at their current wage And they never paid a dime in union dues
They are advised to consult a tax accountant. I can't understand why As has been mentioned Ohio is a TAX and SPEND state

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

I've seen union workers (literally) kill themselves trying to do the job quickly and efficiently.

I've also seen them grab a cardboard box and go sleep in the stock shelves 'cause they were too hung over or stoned.

My point is there is no one statement that can be made about a group of people, so there is probably not a single solution.

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2005 CRD Limited Flame Red w/ Renegade rock rails & light bar, AirLift 1000. 225/75R16 MT/R's on cheap black steel wheels, dual MOPAR subwoofers, Ipod kit & seat covers, Samco hoses - totaled and gone. 2008 WK Laredo 3.0L diesel - AirLift 1000, wife won't let me mess with it much. 2013 JK Sahara on order.