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 Post subject: Hydrogen Generator for the CRD?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:56 pm 
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I have been looking and thinking about hydrogen generators.
Electrical pulses not electrolysis?
Stanley Meyer?
Any thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen Generator for the CRD?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:30 pm 
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fastRob wrote:
I have been looking and thinking about hydrogen generators.
Electrical pulses not electrolysis?
Stanley Meyer?
Any thoughts



S.N.A.K.E O.I.L!!!

It is like, tune up your car, change the air filter, change the oil, run injector cleaner, and drop a $300 magic tea ball with a plastic ball inside it into your fuel tank and your mileage will improve.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:05 am 
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A very expensive joke.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:11 am 
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I'm putting Red matter in my tank.

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 Post subject: If we could control RED MATTER
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:15 am 
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onthehunt wrote:
I'm putting Red matter in my tank.


I would have a plastic surgeon use it to get rid of my gut, at 56 that is where it all goes to. Dieting for a Jet hopping Road Warrior Sucks.
But getting back to reality, the closest thing we will see to Red Matter is the taxes we will need to pay to support all the new Government bail outs and programs.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Unfortunately there has been so much negative response against people who believe that they can run their cars on water that hydrogen fuel cells have attained a bad rapport. I know that our trucks do not always burn the fuel at 100% because it is still illegal to remove the catalytic converter. I am open to the idea that the introduction of hydrogen may help burn the fuel more efficiently giving better economy. Even over the current loss it takes to generate the hydrogen. Maybe someone on the forum has tried it? Kits seem to be very cheap now to buy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:14 pm 
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My next door neighbor bought plans and built a high-quality generator at work with another co-worker. They installed it on a 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins owned by a friend of the co-worker. The guy drives several hundred hwy miles to GA frequently and keeps good MPG records. He tested the system for a couple months and did that drive twice. No discernible change in MPG.

We installed the prototype system he built first on the neighbors riding lawnmower and he claimed that he was using less gas on that til I reminded him that he wasn't mowing the front due to blocked fence gate. His other neighbor had been doing that for him out of frustration over the tall weeds. Then the lawnmower gave up the ghost.

He no longer speaks of hydrogen generators and the guy with the Dodge removed the system and gave it back.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
Unfortunately there has been so much negative response against people who believe that they can run their cars on water that hydrogen fuel cells have attained a bad rapport. I know that our trucks do not always burn the fuel at 100% because it is still illegal to remove the catalytic converter. I am open to the idea that the introduction of hydrogen may help burn the fuel more efficiently giving better economy. Even over the current loss it takes to generate the hydrogen. Maybe someone on the forum has tried it? Kits seem to be very cheap now to buy.
That "negative" response is based on sound science. Many are open to the ideas, but the resulting hypotheses have been disproven. I saw a great quip on the TDICLUB the other day that called the "hydrogen economy" thermodynamic suicide. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Quote:
thermodynamic suicide

Yes, I agree with them, you can't get something from nothing. Energy conserved. But burning fuel more efficiently is still attainable.


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 Post subject: Hydrogen will make a come back when......
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:47 pm 
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....Controllable fusion becomes reality. Until then, it will take the same energy to split up the water into hydrogen and oxygen as you will get when you burn it and put it back together. Now subtract the thermal efficiency factor of the engine or fuel cell and you get less than what you put in.
The laws of physics are not forgiving.
When Fusion does become reality, sea weed huggers (by then tree huggers will evolve to have at least room temperature IQs) will claim Helium emissions are harming the Karma of the sea weed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:59 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
Unfortunately there has been so much negative response against people who believe that they can run their cars on water that hydrogen fuel cells have attained a bad rapport. I know that our trucks do not always burn the fuel at 100% because it is still illegal to remove the catalytic converter. I am open to the idea that the introduction of hydrogen may help burn the fuel more efficiently giving better economy. Even over the current loss it takes to generate the hydrogen. Maybe someone on the forum has tried it? Kits seem to be very cheap now to buy.


If you are concerned about the <1% of unburnt and underburnt fuel, put a propane kit on your ride. It will achieve the same thing as hydrogen plus adds + hp instead of drawing it off of the engine for a very inefficient double conversion. Cost for a C3H8 kit is about the same as for a snake oil H2 kit, but you get actual usable value.

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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen will make a come back when......
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:18 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
....Controllable fusion becomes reality. Until then, it will take the same energy to split up the water into hydrogen and oxygen as you will get when you burn it and put it back together. Now subtract the thermal efficiency factor of the engine or fuel cell and you get less than what you put in.
The laws of physics are not forgiving.
When Fusion does become reality, sea weed huggers (by then tree huggers will evolve to have at least room temperature IQs) will claim Helium emissions are harming the Karma of the sea weed.


Again, I am not arguing the laws of physics.
Consider gasoline fuel injection. Why do you get better efficiency if you have to put energy in to drive a pump? Because better atomization of the droplets and less waste becomes greater than energy lost to create the higher pressure. Maybe hydrogen or oxygen could burn the droplets more efficiently. I know that many say this works.


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 Post subject: Re: Hydrogen will make a come back when......
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:02 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
warp2diesel wrote:
....Controllable fusion becomes reality. Until then, it will take the same energy to split up the water into hydrogen and oxygen as you will get when you burn it and put it back together. Now subtract the thermal efficiency factor of the engine or fuel cell and you get less than what you put in.
The laws of physics are not forgiving.
When Fusion does become reality, sea weed huggers (by then tree huggers will evolve to have at least room temperature IQs) will claim Helium emissions are harming the Karma of the sea weed.


Again, I am not arguing the laws of physics.
Consider gasoline fuel injection. Why do you get better efficiency if you have to put energy in to drive a pump? Because better atomization of the droplets and less waste becomes greater than energy lost to create the higher pressure. Maybe hydrogen or oxygen could burn the droplets more efficiently. I know that many say this works.


Gasoline direct fuel injection is more efficient due to better atomization, but it was put off for many years due to the Bean Counter. Mercedes worked with it in the 1950s. They moved the injectors into the intake manifold to cut costs since they had to do it all mechanically with no electronic controls available. Adjusting the throttle plate to equal the fuel being injected by the inline injection pump was a complicated task to say the least. Injecting into the cylinders with out the aid of an electronically controlled closed loop system was even a bigger pain and even more costly.
All the hydrogen is, is a fuel quantity replacement, nothing more.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Quote:
If you are concerned about the <1% of unburnt and underburnt fuel ...


This may be the crux of the matter for us. Maybe the carburated gassers can see an improvement in economy by using a hydrogen cell but it may do next to nothing for us.


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 Post subject: Carburated gassers used to badly carbon up
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:46 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
Quote:
If you are concerned about the <1% of unburnt and underburnt fuel ...


This may be the crux of the matter for us. Maybe the carburated gassers can see an improvement in economy by using a hydrogen cell but it may do next to nothing for us.


I fixed a lot of them by pouring a Pepsi can of water down the throat of the carburetor with the engine running 2000 RPM. All this did was remove the carbon screwing up the combustion process. Lots cheaper than pulling the cylinder head.
I suspect the scammers who sell these kits adjusted the carburetors to screw up the mixture enough to have an improvement running their hydrogen generators.

Toyota pulled some tricks with the EPA mileage tests to get the false high mileage out of the Prius. After that the Prius mileage dropped to 42 MPG when the EPA revised the test.

What we have with this forum is pier review of modifications that improve fuel economy and performance. The ones that work are pointed out and verified, those that don't work are shot down as they should be. Government organizations are bound by elected official sausage created regulations that sometimes site the facts and other times pull them out of their @$$holes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:12 am 
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Every single one of the HHO proponent's claims is knocked down scientifically here. http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:26 pm 
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nursecosmo wrote:
Every single one of the HHO proponent's claims is knocked down scientifically here. http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml


I hate to be the poster boy here for hydrogen fuel cells but once again the argument in the link disproves the claim that on-car generated hydrogen can be used as a fuel replacement and more efficiently than the original gas. I am still not saying this. Show me a link that proves that unburnt hydrocarbons are not reduced by hydrogen fuel cells please.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:56 pm 
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Also from the article:
Quote:
The experimental results demonstrate that the hydrogen addition in the intake air has an
influence on improvement of engine power, and energy consumption (Fig. 5, 7, 8). NO
emissions are very complicated (Fig. 9). Higher smoke of exhaust gases is observed (Fig. 10).
The higher engine power with hydrogen addition (Fig. 5, 7) is due to the additional heat
released from hydrogen combustion and to the reduced combustion duration (1). The
combustion of hydrogen addition provides additional heat energy, which is one of the reasons
for а higher engine output. The shorter combustion duration causes lower heat transfer rate
thought the combustion chamber walls and higher diesel fuel heat utilization. As a result of
the calculations that were done, the increase of the whole heat added to the engine cycle due
to hydrogen combustion is 2,44% averaged over the entire investigated engine speed region.
But the averaged power improvement obtained as a result of the experimental investigation is
15% (Fig. 7). The middle indicated pressure improvement at 1500 rpm is 14.8% (Fig. 5).
These facts show that the power improvement comes not only from the energy added as a
result of hydrogen addition. The greater part of power increase is due to combustion process
improvement by the means of combustion duration reduction because of superior combustion
and flame propagation properties of hydrogen. The proofs of this statement are the curves of
net heat release and net heat release rate shown respectively on (Fig. 4) and (Fig. 3).


Whether or not the energy used to make the hydrogen is less than the improved combustion energy is for another study.


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 Post subject: Better way to get more out of Hydrogen
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 3:49 pm 
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This process improves cetaine, something the junk at the pumps on this side of the pond can use.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50463a021

Much better than jacking hydrogen into the intake manifold.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Squeeto wrote:
Show me a link that proves that unburnt hydrocarbons are not reduced by hydrogen fuel cells please.


actually from a debate standpoint -
you have made a claim "the introduction of hydrogen may help burn the fuel more efficiently"
That claim has not been accepted
therefore it is your responsibility in the debate - to support the claim or abandon it

it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim.

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