All this talk of killing big vehicles and politics reminds me of the old Rush song, "Red Barchetta".

Hide you gas guzzlers in an old barn folks. The air cars are coming!

_________________
Chad Hargis
Nashville, TN
2008 Grand Cherokee CRD
2005 Liberty CRD *SOLD*

Agreed. The target for light trucks is supposed to be 29 or 30 mpg. With the way the '07 emissions hardware has slammed fuel economy into the dirt, there's no way I see them coaxing a Cummins, Duramax, or Powerstroke to those levels - that would be nearly a 100% increase in fuel mileage from what I've heard the 07 compliant trucks are actually getting.

Hell, they'll have a fun time even getting something like a Ford Ranger up to those levels - and it will probably have so little pulling power and payload capacity as to be totally useless as a truck.

If they drive the larger pickups from the market place, that's literally going to force hundreds or thousands of small companies and independent operators out of business, that depend on these trucks for earning their livelihood, such as the hot shot freight haulers. At the least, I see them making these trucks so exorbitantly expensive to buy, maintain, and operate - via carbon taxes, gas guzzler taxes, and whatnot - that it will have the same effect.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Gawd, been years since I heard that song!

Unfortunately, you're right, looks like we're heading in the same direction as the song.

They can have my '87 MB diesel when they pry my cold dead hands off the steering wheel.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

That's not goingg to happen as the large truck definitly do not fall into that catagory.

_________________
2006 Libery Sport CRD, Lt Kakhi, nicely equipped
*****GDE Hot Tune at 38,879 miles
*****Stock TC.....for the time being!!

Europe has very few pickup trucks, but they have a lot of vans. One stunt the Government might try to copy is having ridiculously low speed limits for the 8000 GVW and larger trucks. In a lot of Europe that is 80kmh or 50mph, if our clowns try that I will be one who will start yelling too. I am old enough to remember the STUPID 55mph speed limit and how much I still hated it.

What would help a lot is to have adaptive suspension systems that can handle the load being carried.
Any of you remember the stiff suspensions medium duty trucks had that could pull your teeth out if you drove empty?
Another item would be transmissions with more gears so that when the truck is pulling 15,000# it will be geared lower than when running empty.
Put in the smart adaptive trans with a wide range and it will shift down going over Loveland Pass but shift up when it is going through the Midwest flat lands empty.
I am amazed with people who have no clue why their 4.56:1 rear end truck gets less MPG than one geared with 3.73:1 on the highway going empty.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

But the difference in towing capacity is large between the same truck and those 2 different gear ratio's.My father's '01 SD originally came with 3.73's and could not pull much more then 16,000lbs,he had the gears changed to the OEM option of 4.30's and can tow over 20,000lbs now with the same truck.Can't give you any empty mpg #'s since it never is driven without a gooseneck attached(be it the 38' horse trailer or 45' flatbed),he used to get about 8-9mpg's with the 3.73's but now can get about 12mpg's with 4000lbs+ more in towed load at 75mph.But who knows since his 7.3 PS must be finally getting broke in with 700,000 miles on the odometer.

[quote=But the difference in towing capacity is large between the same truck and those 2 different gear ratio's.My father's '01 SD originally came with 3.73's and could not pull much more then 16,000lbs,he had the gears changed to the OEM option of 4.30's and can tow over 20,000lbs now with the same truck.Can't give you any empty mpg #'s since it never is driven without a gooseneck attached(be it the 38' horse trailer or 45' flatbed),he used to get about 8-9mpg's with the 3.73's but now can get about 12mpg's with 4000lbs+ more in towed load at 75mph.But who knows since his 7.3 PS must be finally getting broke in with 700,000 miles on the odometer.[/quote]

A smart transmission would adapt from empty to a goose neck 20,000# trailer with out changing the rear axle.
It is totally correct the same engine will need to turn more revs per mile with a 6,000# truck pulling a 20,000# load than with just the 6,000# truck, laws of physics dictate that. A smart transmission would adapt to the load and obtain the best possible fuel economy for the conditions.
brown stinkies can the excess paper work and "Lock and Tag Out" the Bean Counters (Each Engineer and Technician gets a key and lock) and any good Engineering team can make the Smart Transmission happen.

Will the 6,000# truck towing 20,000# ever get 34.5 MPG, no. But it will get better MPG than it does now.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

A smart transmission would adapt from empty to a goose neck 20,000# trailer with out changing the rear axle.
It is totally correct the same engine will need to turn more revs per mile with a 6,000# truck pulling a 20,000# load than with just the 6,000# truck, laws of physics dictate that. A smart transmission would adapt to the load and obtain the best possible fuel economy for the conditions.
brown stinkies can the excess paper work and "Lock and Tag Out" the Bean Counters (Each Engineer and Technician gets a key and lock) and any good Engineering team can make the Smart Transmission happen.

Will the 6,000# truck towing 20,000# ever get 34.5 MPG, no. But it will get better MPG than it does now.[/quote]But at what cost and strength would that "smart transmission" cost and last? Not to mention the degree in engineering to even diagnose and/or fix.As a Technician it's getting harder and more costly to to fix newer vehicles and there failure prone techno gizmo's that really are not needed,then there's them dang hybrids(worthless,worthless,worthless and did I mention worthless?) where you almost need $10,000 worth of special tools to correctly diag for a job that may pay the tech 2 hours of pay.

A smart transmission would adapt from empty to a goose neck 20,000# trailer with out changing the rear axle.
It is totally correct the same engine will need to turn more revs per mile with a 6,000# truck pulling a 20,000# load than with just the 6,000# truck, laws of physics dictate that. A smart transmission would adapt to the load and obtain the best possible fuel economy for the conditions.
brown stinkies can the excess paper work and "Lock and Tag Out" the Bean Counters (Each Engineer and Technician gets a key and lock) and any good Engineering team can make the Smart Transmission happen.

Will the 6,000# truck towing 20,000# ever get 34.5 MPG, no. But it will get better MPG than it does now.[/quote]

Turning different REVs at highway speed with a different load? Only if the converter isn't locked up. Then, you are wasting MASSIVE amounts of fuel to keep the transmission fluid warm. Not a bright idea. My 30' RV has a 3-speed TH475 transmission (Chevy P-30 chassis) and a 454 putting power through it into the 4.56 rear end. At 60mph, that engine is close to 3k RPM, all day long. Why? Because I'm in top gear (1:1) and the converter is locked shut. The transmission is nothing more than a straight shaft. Whether I'm pulling just the 12k lbs of RV or I add another 4k of Jeep Grand Cherokee to the tail... It will always run at 3k at 60mph.

Now, lets talk about the upgrades I have done to this engine.
Stock, it gets 6mpg.
I have removed the dual airpumps (stupid inventions) converted the 5 V-belts to a single Serpentine and ONE extra V for a safety, replaced the manifolds with dual headers connected to completely separate 2.5" exhausts that run straight back through dual truck mufflers (one per side) without ANY bends or restrictions... Replaced the intake manifold with an Edelbrock Performer and the carb with an Edelbrock 750cfm... Extreme set of spark wires and an HEI coil for the fire... 4" air intake line that is insulated from the engine bay's heat and connects to a K&N behind the headlights... Tuned the HELL out of that Carb so that it is running DEAD PERFECT stoich at cruising speeds, varies a bit on acceleration or coasting, I would have preferred it be a bit lean but don't want to cook a piston.

And driving cross-country drafting behind semi trucks with the onboard generator running both roof airs (1gph) at 65-70mph... I was pulling 9mpg steady the whole way.
Is the engine capable of better economy? Certainly! The economy doesn't change when I added that Jeep behind the RV, which says the engine is being wasted on that gearing. Gas engines cannot vary their fuel consumption substantially based on loading, they HAVE to maintain stoich 14:1 or darn close, or risk burning a piston. In fact, a gas engine has to spray even MORE fuel when heavily loaded to cool the combustion chambers, b/c lean = death. Diesels can go to 200:1 when not loaded. Because my RV doesn't change it's MPG when I add 4k lbs to the back, obviously the engine doesn't think that it is loaded heavily. Remember also, this is NOT a computer controlled engine. So when I am unloaded, this engine is creating LOTS of available power that is just heading out the tailpipe. Sad. That should never happen, but this is only a 3-speed.

So how to fix the economy? GEARS! The 454 engine is a SLOOOOOOOW turning block. For the RV setup, it has a redline of 4500 rpm. Considering that this 30 foot RV can easily keep up with traffic, it has an enormous amount of power available. Turning it slower with more gears STILL makes use of that same power band, but to a more economical and fuel-efficient way. When you have 500 lb-ft of torque to apply with every rotation, who cares if it is applied slower once you are at cruising speed?

Adding more gears costs the BUILDER more, and they don't see the benefit. Remember GM and the transmission drain plugs? Adding one cost them more, but they didn't see any benefit. Only the buyer / mechanic would. So they didn't do it.

This is the same thing. GM only GRUDGINGLY started even offering three gears, their motto for years had been that two was more than enough for anyone. But their other motto was "we build stinky poo, you'll buy it anyway."

Turning different REVs at highway speed with a different load? Only if the converter isn't locked up. Then, you are wasting MASSIVE amounts of fuel to keep the transmission fluid warm. Not a bright idea. My 30' RV has a 3-speed TH475 transmission (Chevy P-30 chassis) and a 454 putting power through it into the 4.56 rear end. At 60mph, that engine is close to 3k RPM, all day long. Why? Because I'm in top gear (1:1) and the converter is locked shut. The transmission is nothing more than a straight shaft. Whether I'm pulling just the 12k lbs of RV or I add another 4k of Jeep Grand Cherokee to the tail... It will always run at 3k at 60mph.

Now, lets talk about the upgrades I have done to this engine.
Stock, it gets 6mpg.
I have removed the dual airpumps (stupid inventions) converted the 5 V-belts to a single Serpentine and ONE extra V for a safety, replaced the manifolds with dual headers connected to completely separate 2.5" exhausts that run straight back through dual truck mufflers (one per side) without ANY bends or restrictions... Replaced the intake manifold with an Edelbrock Performer and the carb with an Edelbrock 750cfm... Extreme set of spark wires and an HEI coil for the fire... 4" air intake line that is insulated from the engine bay's heat and connects to a K&N behind the headlights... Tuned the HELL out of that Carb so that it is running DEAD PERFECT stoich at cruising speeds, varies a bit on acceleration or coasting, I would have preferred it be a bit lean but don't want to cook a piston.

And driving cross-country drafting behind semi trucks with the onboard generator running both roof airs (1gph) at 65-70mph... I was pulling 9mpg steady the whole way.
Is the engine capable of better economy? Certainly! The economy doesn't change when I added that Jeep behind the RV, which says the engine is being wasted on that gearing. Gas engines cannot vary their fuel consumption substantially based on loading, they HAVE to maintain stoich 14:1 or darn close, or risk burning a piston. In fact, a gas engine has to spray even MORE fuel when heavily loaded to cool the combustion chambers, b/c lean = death. Diesels can go to 200:1 when not loaded. Because my RV doesn't change it's MPG when I add 4k lbs to the back, obviously the engine doesn't think that it is loaded heavily. Remember also, this is NOT a computer controlled engine. So when I am unloaded, this engine is creating LOTS of available power that is just heading out the tailpipe. Sad. That should never happen, but this is only a 3-speed.

So how to fix the economy? GEARS! The 454 engine is a SLOOOOOOOW turning block. For the RV setup, it has a redline of 4500 rpm. Considering that this 30 foot RV can easily keep up with traffic, it has an enormous amount of power available. Turning it slower with more gears STILL makes use of that same power band, but to a more economical and fuel-efficient way. When you have 500 lb-ft of torque to apply with every rotation, who cares if it is applied slower once you are at cruising speed?

Adding more gears costs the BUILDER more, and they don't see the benefit. Remember GM and the transmission drain plugs? Adding one cost them more, but they didn't see any benefit. Only the buyer / mechanic would. So they didn't do it.

This is the same thing. GM only GRUDGINGLY started even offering three gears, their motto for years had been that two was more than enough for anyone. But their other motto was "we build stinky poo, you'll buy it anyway."[/quote]

Keep your ears and eyes open for a good used overdrive. US Gear makes one that bolts on your trans, all you have to do is shorten the drive shaft. One thing you need to watch with carb gassers is your vacuum. When you drop down to 10" of mercury the power valve opens up and pi$$e$ gas into the manifold to keep from putting holes into pistons. Closed loop modern fuel injection has eliminated this problem with going below the dreaded 10" of mercury vacuum. Water injection may be a way to get away from the power valve pi$$ing gas into the intake under low vacuum, check with some one who has done it on your engine, not some stupid order taker.
If you want a poor man's mixture checker, put an O2 sensor in the spot where your headers join up and run the wires up into the cabin, 0.5Volt DC is what you will read when all is perfect. I used to add resistors on some EFI engines that ran too lean to correct the problem.
Older diesels were very limited on their RPM range until the timing advances were perfected, then when the Electronic Diesel Engines came on board the lower RPM higher torque Diesel Engine evolved and the RPMs dropped.
You are right about the gearing, it was set up for complete idiots by idiots.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

They already have a version of a smart adaptive tranny in use - commonly known as a CVT and usually used in (gag, choke) hybrids.

I've often wondered why they didn't try a hydraulic version of a CVT, such as Honda uses in their ATV's - basically, a variable displacement pump/motor on the input and output, coupled by a hydraulic circuit - vary the displacement on the two pump/motor units and you could have a nearly infinite range of gear ratios.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Warp, I know exactly what you are referring to, and I do look around every once in a while. But truthfully, this RV will NEVER get the kind of driving to make one of those economical. It is already a 20 year old RV with a 10 year old motor in it (That my family has put probably about 40k miles at least on) and the original transmission. I've also upgraded the suspension and replaced every appliance. Last time it moved however was 3 years ago when I drove it from Vegas to Savannah where I use it as my Grad School house.

If I start doing film projects where I will need to travel, this will most likely not be the RV that I do it in... At least not for long. But then again... Who knows, right?
I'm not worried about the vacuum, I can TELL when the power jet opens up, and part of the reason I have the 750 carb on it is that I couldn't get it to STOP smoking when I set it up with the "suggested" 650cfm that the idiots at the performance shop gave me. Way too much vacuum and over fueling. Your comments about the O2 gauge are funny tho. How did you think I know that it is running perfectly stoich at 60mph? It isn't by ear! I've got two sensors, one in each exhaust collector. I set up a switch to the Autometer gauge so that I can poll one or the other, or none at all when I don't want to see the dancing LEDs.

Honestly, I would love to have had the knowledge then that I have now when the engine needed to be replaced. I would have gotten this thing repowered with a big Navistar diesel, including the transmission. It would have been worth it.

...for the engine, trans and the needed controls. But you may have better things to do than a lot of grunt work swapping an engine and trans.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle