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 Post subject: BEAN COUNTERS EVIL BEAN COUNTERS
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:59 pm 
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CRD Joe wrote:
linewarbr wrote:
Glend wrote:
I think you might find that the manual transmission KJ CRD models are detuned to produce less torque (certainly the case with the Wrangler CRDs here). The VM torque can burn out the manual clutches so they detuned the Wranglers to reduce the possibility. The current 2.8VM used in the Wrangler CRD is putting out 460nm in auto configuration but only 410nm in manuals. We have a relatively small number of 6 speed manual KJ CRDs imported compared to the auto version.



DUDE, THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!! WHY CAN'T THEY JUST SUPPLY A CLUTCH/ TC THAT CAN HANDLE THE TORQUE?!?!?!? DON'T THEY ENGINEER AND BUILD CARS, FOR &^@$' S SAKE?!!?

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. *rant*



Times muthafrakin 2!


Any body got Bean Counter Targets for sale or down load :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I want one bad :twisted:

Besides, years ago I taught my Wife how to drive a manual, now she hates automatics :( :( And won't drive my CRD :( :( :( :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:53 am 
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linewarbr wrote:
Glend wrote:
I think you might find that the manual transmission KJ CRD models are detuned to produce less torque (certainly the case with the Wrangler CRDs here). The VM torque can burn out the manual clutches so they detuned the Wranglers to reduce the possibility. The current 2.8VM used in the Wrangler CRD is putting out 460nm in auto configuration but only 410nm in manuals. We have a relatively small number of 6 speed manual KJ CRDs imported compared to the auto version.



DUDE, THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!!!! WHY CAN'T THEY JUST SUPPLY A CLUTCH/ TC THAT CAN HANDLE THE TORQUE?!?!?!? DON'T THEY ENGINEER AND BUILD CARS, FOR &^@$' S SAKE?!!?

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. *rant*


At that time the germans were in charge.

The transmission is made by Getrag.

Need I go on?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:09 am 
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My first 4x4 was a 1966 Land Rover, the kind with the spare on the hood :lol: My second was a 1984 Bronco II. Both were manual shift. I found that in the slight time it takes you to down shift your stuck :shock: Not having to shift allows me to pay more attention to where I'm going :wink:
Give me a good automatic any day. As far as durability, there needs to be something that can slip slightly to take up the jolt. My last TDI, a 99.5 jetta, had a dual mass flywheel. I learned early on that it would slip if I didn't treat it right. That car is my son's now and the clutch is still going strong despite his size 11 foot but a bad driver could kill it instantly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:48 am 
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I would love a 5 or 6 speed man. drive line

but not to put in a KJ

Time will tell.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:51 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
My first 4x4 was a 1966 Land Rover, the kind with the spare on the hood :lol: My second was a 1984 Bronco II. Both were manual shift. I found that in the slight time it takes you to down shift your stuck :shock: Not having to shift allows me to pay more attention to where I'm going :wink:
Give me a good automatic any day. As far as durability, there needs to be something that can slip slightly to take up the jolt. My last TDI, a 99.5 jetta, had a dual mass flywheel. I learned early on that it would slip if I didn't treat it right. That car is my son's now and the clutch is still going strong despite his size 11 foot but a bad driver could kill it instantly.


Werd

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:29 pm 
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The manual KJs do have a dual mass flywheel.

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 Post subject: Good to know
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
The manual KJs do have a dual mass flywheel.


If anyone ever gets inspired to create a single mass flywheel from a steel billet. Before you chuck it into the lathe, put your billet into an oven set to 500F (360C) and let it bake for one hour for every inch (25.4mm) of thickness, you can go longer and not do any harm but it is not needed. Then turn off the oven over night and let it cool until you can comfortably remove it with your bare hands. This way the steel will normalize and not distort when you machine it into the desired shape to fit and function. When you are all done machining and it fits great, slip on the starter gear you harvest off the dual mass flywheel and send it off to the racing machine shop to have it balanced. Don't let on that it is not for your track toy, they don't need to know and will do their best so that the flywheel is balanced to 10,000 RPM.

Other options are cast steel or nodular iron casting from a local foundry, but let it sit outside in the weather with a coat of oil or paint for a year so it can stress relieve. There are other options for stress relieving like chilling to absolute zero and bringing the temp back up to room temp, but last time I checked these people have their own Gulf-Streams parked out in back of their houses. There may be other stress reliving tricks but pouring Guinness or other fine Brew on the casting won't work! Even if it is body processed first.

One trick I have done before is to get a flywheel that is close to what I need, cut out the old hub where it goes onto the crank, have a very experienced welder TIG weld in a new hub blank, machine it to fit, tweak the other dimensions such as the pressure plate holes, starter ring gear, and pilot bearing, then take it to the race machine shop to have it balanced.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:57 pm 
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500f would be tempering the steel not normalizing
normalizing would be more at 1400-1600f depending on alloy
im not sure what hardness would be right for an application like a flywheel

im a full time knife maker and have the kiln and LN2 to do all my work
i can run just about any knife steel in my kiln for any heat treat/ quench temper and or cryo specs

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 Post subject: Tempering is done after hardening......
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:39 pm 
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butcher_block wrote:
500f would be tempering the steel not normalizing
normalizing would be more at 1400-1600f depending on alloy
im not sure what hardness would be right for an application like a flywheel

im a full time knife maker and have the kiln and LN2 to do all my work
i can run just about any knife steel in my kiln for any heat treat/ quench temper and or cryo specs


.....Normalizing as described above is done to prevent distortion when machining. What you are describing is basically annealing or close to it. Since a mild steel billet is not hardened, heating to 500F is not tempering. When I have hardened 4140 alloy commonly used in firearms (yup built my own furnace) and transmission shafts, I would heat it up to the prescribed temperature for the recommended period of time and air quench it by taking it out of the furnace and letting it cool. When cool I would heat it up to 500F to temper it so it was not too hard. Buying 4140 half hard cuts out a lot of work and is worth the money for firearm parts.
Since most gear heads don't need a 4140 flywheel, mild steel is good enough. Mild steel billet fly wheels have been used for years on pulling tractors and other high performance applications.
One problems with fly wheels is that they do harden in use due to the heat caused by slipping the clutch, in fact they get so hard they crack and have to be reground or scrapped depending upon the level of damage.
References to cryo were just a little stealthy humor, I though the Gulf Stream in the back yard was the big hint. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:08 pm 
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eeeh...wouldn't we get into a little clutch plate problem if you get rid of the dual mass flywheel? (doesn't have any springs...)

And I'd probably better start looking for some hydrolic engine mounts if I do not want to keep my bumpers attached and radio in it's place at stationary rev's....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:30 pm 
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Well - we're way off of Green Diesel Engineering
but if they can put a manual behind a Cummins - why not behind a VM Motori?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:48 pm 
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ATXKJ wrote:
Well - we're way off of Green Diesel Engineering
but if they can put a manual behind a Cummins - why not behind a VM Motori?


Hmmmm...... just jogged my memory and reminded me of Perfection Clutch in SC. They sponsored a Diesel Dyno Day about 2 years ago that Ranger1 and I attended, put both our CRD's on the dyno.

As the name would suggest, they specialize in performance clutches for diesel trucks.

Point being, now that GDE has popped up with this offer, I'm certain that somewhere in the aftermarket you could find someone to offer an upgraded clutch for the beast - if someone overseas doesn't already offer one for the export versions.

Post 2006 version of the engine? As in piezoelectric injectors and possibly pressure sensors for adjusting fuel on each combustion stroke - as in even better performance and fuel economy? Would be worth it just for the engine.

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 Post subject: Clutch plate...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:03 pm 
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tonycrd wrote:
eeeh...wouldn't we get into a little clutch plate problem if you get rid of the dual mass flywheel? (doesn't have any springs...)

And I'd probably better start looking for some hydrolic engine mounts if I do not want to keep my bumpers attached and radio in it's place at stationary rev's....


What counts with clutches is the diameter, disk material, spline, pressure, and bolt pattern of the cover.
Then you choose diaphragm or finger type for the release.
Older VWs are one of the few weirdos I have been exposed to.

When it comes to dual mass, I like to stick to what the Great Creator has created and is very pleasant to be around, not some Hybrid Engineer/Bean Counter's crazy acid trip idea :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:34 am 
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warp2 you got me there im used to working ss or high carbon/tool steels

i can see how the stress of working the flywheel / milling /turning could build a ton of stress in a part like that work hardening being the key



still want my NV3500HD 242 9.25 rear 3.55 geared dakota
thinking tow 5k and get near 30MPG in a std.cab short bed would be killer

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:14 am 
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What the .... talking about clutches now are we?

Where is the feedback from the buyers of the tune??? Let's hear what they've got to say!

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 Post subject: Stainless flywheel a total nightmare
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:22 am 
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butcher_block wrote:
warp2 you got me there im used to working ss or high carbon/tool steels

i can see how the stress of working the flywheel / milling /turning could build a ton of stress in a part like that work hardening being the key



still want my NV3500HD 242 9.25 rear 3.55 geared dakota
thinking tow 5k and get near 30MPG in a std.cab short bed would be killer


The waste water and water equipment I work with is mostly 304 and 316 Stainless Steel. The distortion from the natural stress relieving after it is fabricated plus the lack of precision in concrete makes it fun to get all the moving components aligned so they work.

What does this have to do with tuning? Put more torque through a drive line, you will need to beef up parts of it. Not every thing will be bolt on out of the box some will need to be engineered and developed like Butcher-block's knives. If some one does take on the engineering and development, none of us want to be the one stuck with a clutch that does not release because some one skipped a detail. Also we don't want someone who gets almost ready to put out a product we need and get stuck with scrap no one wants.

Green Diesel Engineering is perusing a passion and is addressing issues with the original political sausage tune we all got stuck with. A sausage tune designed with the micromanagement oversight of lawyers who don't know a thing about the environment or how an engine works. Yet they listen to other lawyers who are paid to influence their decisions who know nothing about the environment or engines either. So now we have to design around their stupidity.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:30 am 
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has anyone gotten back their ecu?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:44 am 
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ribbon wrote:
has anyone gotten back their ecu?


Not yet. I'll be overnighting mine this Saturday.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:04 am 
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Just sent mine off yesterday

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:49 am 
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Sent mine out yesterday as well.

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