High Miles ? Yeah Right

MooseMeat · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:00 am

My '89 Dodge Ramcharger has 141,000 miles on her.

318ci, 727 auto, burns no oil, always starts.

But 13 mpg highway it sits alot anymore.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:11 am

nightdrv wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

Remind me again why, other than for horsepower, someone would ever want a "100k mile and I'm done" gasser?

This is true... but if given the right care, you can take a gasser quite far. My other car is passing 320k miles now. Still on original engine. No leaks. Lots of little maintenance though.

X2.............

I regularly work on gas vehicles is 200K+ and they still run very well,maintenance is key for both diesel and gas engines.Just because it's a diesel does not mean it automatically last longer then a gas engine,how you take care of it determines how long it will last.Now diesels generally last longer due to there robust construction but does not guarantee it.

Just think you will spend alot more $$$ in routine maintenance to make your CRD hit 200,000miles,much more then my 3.7(which they can hit 200,000 without issues,there are a few already with that amount),which offsets the mpg difference.

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

weaklings.

84 Mercedes 190D: 604,000 miles (when I sold it)
86 VW 1.6 Diesel Golf: 520,000 and counting (won't let it go) - valve guides replaced 20k ago, first time engine had been cracked open. Stopped burning oil after.

We're hoping to see 300k out of the Liberty before it's let go. My 06 VW has just under 93k miles on it and I hope to get a good 250-300k out of it as well.

Auberon · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:16 pm

The bliss of ignorance. They have not a clue!
Cheers
Auberon

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:29 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

nightdrv wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

Remind me again why, other than for horsepower, someone would ever want a "100k mile and I'm done" gasser?

This is true... but if given the right care, you can take a gasser quite far. My other car is passing 320k miles now. Still on original engine. No leaks. Lots of little maintenance though.

X2.............

I had a subaru that had 230k on the clock when I traded it cause the tranny was starting to slip. I saw that car on the road about a year ago still going. I know it was mine cus it had a dent right where I put it. someone must have pick it up and swapped the tranny. lucky them it would then make a nice cheap car.

I regularly work on gas vehicles is 200K+ and they still run very well,maintenance is key for both diesel and gas engines.Just because it's a diesel does not mean it automatically last longer then a gas engine,how you take care of it determines how long it will last.Now diesels generally last longer due to there robust construction but does not guarantee it.

Just think you will spend alot more $$$ in routine maintenance to make your CRD hit 200,000miles,much more then my 3.7(which they can hit 200,000 without issues,there are a few already with that amount),which offsets the mpg difference.

How do you figure we will spend more on our CRD than a gasser? I will be using synthitic oil and extending my oil changes to double what I did in the outback I used to drive, the oil is not 2x more$$. with diesel there are no tune-ups like with gas.. no plugs and wires or distributors to mess with. it is a more simple engine and uses less fuel. My CRD got 27 MPG for me on a long highway trip doing 75 to 80 most of the way and felt like it had more power for climbing mountains than my Outback would have while it could only return 25mpg.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:21 pm

mikey1273 wrote:

How do you figure we will spend more on our CRD than a gasser? I will be using synthitic oil and extending my oil changes to double what I did in the outback I used to drive, the oil is not 2x more$$. with diesel there are no tune-ups like with gas.. no plugs and wires or distributors to mess with. it is a more simple engine and uses less fuel. My CRD got 27 MPG for me on a long highway trip doing 75 to 80 most of the way and felt like it had more power for climbing mountains than my Outback would have while it could only return 25mpg.

Well for the 2.8's only you will spend about $1000(if not more) every 100,000miles replacing a timing belt which the 3.7's do not have or need to worry about since the 3.7 uses chains which normally last at least 200,000miles if not more.You also have the added cost of replacing fuel filters at least once a year(if not more) where the 3.7 you do not.Your oil costs more if you use the specified oil and filter and that would pay for at least 2 gas engine oil changes so no gain there.Oh and there are no plug wires or a distributor on the 3.7.So even with a bit better mpg's(not much since I can still pull almost 22mpg's on the highway in my KJ) there is not really any advantage to owning a small diesel vehicle over the gas version.

And no I'm not anti-diesel,unless I'm pulling 20,000lbs there's not much point in owning a diesel(in my opinion).

jdorris · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:39 am

Don't Feed The Troll. :roll:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:58 am

jdorris wrote:

Don't Feed The Troll. :roll:

Might want to check out the other parts of this forum then.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:00 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

mikey1273 wrote:

How do you figure we will spend more on our CRD than a gasser? I will be using synthitic oil and extending my oil changes to double what I did in the outback I used to drive, the oil is not 2x more$$. with diesel there are no tune-ups like with gas.. no plugs and wires or distributors to mess with. it is a more simple engine and uses less fuel. My CRD got 27 MPG for me on a long highway trip doing 75 to 80 most of the way and felt like it had more power for climbing mountains than my Outback would have while it could only return 25mpg.

Well for the 2.8's only you will spend about $1000(if not more) every 100,000miles replacing a timing belt which the 3.7's do not have or need to worry about since the 3.7 uses chains which normally last at least 200,000miles if not more.You also have the added cost of replacing fuel filters at least once a year(if not more) where the 3.7 you do not.Your oil costs more if you use the specified oil and filter and that would pay for at least 2 gas engine oil changes so no gain there.Oh and there are no plug wires or a distributor on the 3.7.So even with a bit better mpg's(not much since I can still pull almost 22mpg's on the highway in my KJ) there is not really any advantage to owning a small diesel vehicle over the gas version.

And no I'm not anti-diesel,unless I'm pulling 20,000lbs there's not much point in owning a diesel(in my opinion).

My family has been using diesels for years, mainly Dodge Cummins and now three Jeeps (mine, my father's, and one that was totalled). In our experience, the diesels have had to spend far less time in the shop than the gasser cars that we have owned. It is a simpler engine, there are less parts to break (spark plugs, etc.), and - especially if you put in a little DIY effort - maintenance costs can be very minimal...

I'm not sure a $30-50 fuel filter changed every 25k miles and ~$100 for a DIY oil change every 6k really negates the savings I get when I'm pulling 34-35 mpg on the highway and 27 in town. I figured it out a little while ago, and, just based on mileage, I'm saving $600-$700 per year (avg: 15,000 miles/year). Even if I had someone else replace my timing belt, I would still be saving a few thousand dollars in the long haul.

Throw in a few towing jobs every year and the savings only increase...

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:07 am

Lets see what my annual maint cost are...

Oil change DIY- ~$50 twice a year (synthetic oil)
Fuel filter DIY- ~$40 every two years
Air filter- ~$10 once a year

So thats about $130 a year

Coolant, tranny, power steering, hoses, tires, brakes, F/R diffs... is all the
same as any other gasser.
The only difference is the T-belt. Yes, its a big job and a big expense, but
no more so than a Pathfinder, Montero or any other vehicle with a timing belt.

So I guess the only difference between the CRD and 3.7 in maintenance
requirements is the T-belt and thats only done once every six years (roughly).

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:18 am

stoutdog wrote:

My family has been using diesels for years, mainly Dodge Cummins and now three Jeeps (mine, my father's, and one that was totalled). In our experience, the diesels have had to spend far less time in the shop than the gasser cars that we have owned. It is a simpler engine, there are less parts to break (spark plugs, etc.), and - especially if you put in a little DIY effort - maintenance costs can be very minimal...

I'm not sure a $30-50 fuel filter changed every 25k miles and ~$100 for a DIY oil change every 6k really negates the savings I get when I'm pulling 34-35 mpg on the highway and 27 in town. I figured it out a little while ago, and, just based on mileage, I'm saving $600-$700 per year (avg: 15,000 miles/year). Even if I had someone else replace my timing belt, I would still be saving a few thousand dollars in the long haul.

Throw in a few towing jobs every year and the savings only increase...

I'm only comparing the CRD to a gas KJ,a Dodge Cummins is a whole different breed of diesel.

Quote:

Lets see what my annual maint cost are...

Oil change DIY- ~$50 twice a year (synthetic oil)
Fuel filter DIY- ~$40 every two years
Air filter- ~$10 once a year

So thats about $130 a year

Coolant, tranny, power steering, hoses, tires, brakes, F/R diffs... is all the
same as any other gasser.
The only difference is the T-belt. Yes, its a big job and a big expense, but
no more so than a Pathfinder, Montero or any other vehicle with a timing belt.

So I guess the only difference between the CRD and 3.7 in maintenance
requirements is the T-belt and thats only done once every six years (roughly).
stoutdog

My annual maintance cost are.............

$90 for oil changes(usually 3 per year)
$8 for t-case fluid(I do every 6000miles)
$12 for plugs

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:58 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

mikey1273 wrote:

How do you figure we will spend more on our CRD than a gasser? I will be using synthitic oil and extending my oil changes to double what I did in the outback I used to drive, the oil is not 2x more$$. with diesel there are no tune-ups like with gas.. no plugs and wires or distributors to mess with. it is a more simple engine and uses less fuel. My CRD got 27 MPG for me on a long highway trip doing 75 to 80 most of the way and felt like it had more power for climbing mountains than my Outback would have while it could only return 25mpg.

Well for the 2.8's only you will spend about $1000(if not more) every 100,000miles replacing a timing belt which the 3.7's do not have or need to worry about since the 3.7 uses chains which normally last at least 200,000miles if not more.You also have the added cost of replacing fuel filters at least once a year(if not more) where the 3.7 you do not.Your oil costs more if you use the specified oil and filter and that would pay for at least 2 gas engine oil changes so no gain there.Oh and there are no plug wires or a distributor on the 3.7.So even with a bit better mpg's(not much since I can still pull almost 22mpg's on the highway in my KJ) there is not really any advantage to owning a small diesel vehicle over the gas version.

And no I'm not anti-diesel,unless I'm pulling 20,000lbs there's not much point in owning a diesel(in my opinion).

Ya might want to go back to school and take math again for this one. If you are indeed getting 22MPG as your very best highway MPG which is not even close to your average(My brother got 17MPG Hwy in his 03 gasser), you are paying $11363 for fuel over the course of 100k miles with gas at $2.50. When we compare the CRDs average MPG of 27 (we won't use it's Hwy MPG of 30+, since that would make it's little gasser cousin look REALLY bad), We see that $9259 is spent on fuel over the course of 100K miles with D2 at $2.50. That is a difference of $2204.00, even using your SERIOUSLY skewed MPG numbers. As the price of fuel goes up the gap widens even more. When actual averages are compared, the savings are even more dramatic. The slightly higher maintenance costs of the CRD don't even come close to offsetting the extreme savings in fuel alone.

We Haven't even mentioned the CRD's advantage in off-roading, towing, Off the line acceleration, or cool factor.

If you secretly want a CRD, just buy one. Don't put it down just because you have diesel envy.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:32 pm

ok so he never changes his fuel filter????

I never had a gas jeep but I had many other cars...in fact all of them before the jeep had gas engines and guess what.... the owners manual recomended replaceing the fuel filter around 30k on all of them I can remember. I think the last fuel filter I bought for a gasser was nearly $30.... with my AAA discount at NAPA the jeep's was $32. the correct NAPA GOLD oil filter was $6.70, oil cost me $19.00 a gallon for Shell Rotella T 5w40 and it take 6.4 quarts. I will be changing every 6250 miles instead of every 3000 like I did with my old gas car.

Many other vehicles on the road have a timing belt, my subaru did and every other car I ever had but the Nissan Maxima. to me timing belt change is a moot point.

Us diesel users may not me ahead much...some more than other depending on how they drive and GDE tune or not.... but I think Im going to be saving money over a gas jeep. I think my costs are going to be about the same as the outback I traded in for the jeep. So far my fuel costs seem the same. when I first got it I was going on longer trips so it seemed I was spending alot more on fuel and I was but I was also driving more than normal for me. when I figured out the mpg I was right on or a little better than my outback. Not bad since the jeep is heavier and more capable than the Subaru was.

I'm not trying to be a hater to gassers, if you like it and your happy go on then. I like my diesel and I'm happy.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:42 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

We Haven't even mentioned the CRD's advantage in off-roading, towing, Off the line acceleration, or cool factor.

If you secretly want a CRD, just buy one. Don't put it down just because you have diesel envy.

The CRD has zero advantage offroad,actually it is at a disadvantage over the 3.7 KJ due to be limited to a 2.5" or less lift when you can get up to 4" on a gas KJ before problems arise.

I did want a CRD but after all the problems with it I'll pass,the 2.8 is not a reliable enough diesel(read DIESEL) engine for me(going to get some flak over that comment :wink:

),alloy heads and timing belts are best left for gas engines.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 pm

someone's drinking that hater aide again

MooseMeat · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:05 pm

OH YEAH ! ! !

My jeeps better than your Jeep!

Good Grief Kids.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:58 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

The CRD has zero advantage offroad,actually it is at a disadvantage over the 3.7 KJ due to be limited to a 2.5" or less lift when you can get up to 4" on a gas KJ before problems arise.

I did want a CRD but after all the problems with it I'll pass,the 2.8 is not a reliable enough diesel(read DIESEL) engine for me(going to get some flak over that comment :wink:

),alloy heads and timing belts are best left for gas engines.

Oh really. Maybe you keep up with your available CRD mods the same as you keep up with your math skills . JBA does 4 inch CRD lifts for CRDs http://jeepinbyal.com/4inSTDliftkit37L.aspx The low end torque of a diesel blows gassers away on the slippery stuff.

This is not to say that you don't have an awesome rig, which I would love to get behind the wheel of. It would just be better with the 2.8L.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:03 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

The CRD has zero advantage offroad,actually it is at a disadvantage over the 3.7 KJ due to be limited to a 2.5" or less lift when you can get up to 4" on a gas KJ before problems arise.

I did want a CRD but after all the problems with it I'll pass,the 2.8 is not a reliable enough diesel(read DIESEL) engine for me(going to get some flak over that comment :wink:

),alloy heads and timing belts are best left for gas engines.

Oh really. Maybe you keep up with your available CRD mods the same as you keep up with your math skills . JBA does 4 inch CRD lifts for CRDs http://jeepinbyal.com/4inSTDliftkit37L.aspx The low end torque of a diesel blows gassers away on the slippery stuff.

This is not to say that you don't have an awesome rig, which I would love to get behind the wheel of. It would just be better with the 2.8L.

That lift is for gas KJ's only.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:21 pm

For 89 bucks more, they provide the CRD CV joints. Follow the links. http://jeepinbyal.com/prod-4_inch_lift_ ... 7-461.aspx

nightdrv · **Posted:** Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:30 pm

kcfoxie wrote:

weaklings.

84 Mercedes 190D: 604,000 miles (when I sold it)
86 VW 1.6 Diesel Golf: 520,000 and counting (won't let it go) - valve guides replaced 20k ago, first time engine had been cracked open. Stopped burning oil after.

You are the man. 600k is not easy to get to.

High Miles ? Yeah Right

Who is online