hard starting/won't stay running

dkenny · **Posted:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:11 pm

update.

I reinstalled the heater plug..with the relay out..
added a installed a 6 inch piece of clear hose on the output of fuel filter..
started the jeep..then clamped the input to the filter...lots of air showed up in the hose...this is bad!!

so what's the part # for the latest/greatest filter head from the dealer or should I just replace it with a Racor?

-dkenny

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:45 pm

Separator 68043089AA
Connector 68043086AA

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=381161#381161

although if you're out of warranty I'd be tempted to go Racor
cost would be a bit higher - but you get better quality filters.

http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/racor.htm

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:28 am

dkenny: Before you replace the filter head, install the clear window hose on the input side of the filter. If there are no bubbles, you just need to replace your filter again. If your LP is functioning properly, there should be positive pressure on both sides of the filter, but if the filter is plugged, there will be a vacuum on the back side of the filter, which will draw air out of the fuel and or a very small pinhole in the filter head.

How did you wash your bio? Water wash or bubble drying? Have you added biocide? I see that you are in NC. The temps there may be getting cool enough the cause some fat clouding in the fuel.

I really think that your problem is fuel and or filter related. You "should" get a P0093 code if there is as much air in the fuel as you described, however the computer won't allways trip the DTC untill it experences the condition several times or for a prolonged period.

dkenny · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:54 am

nursecosmo,
I'll have to wait until Friday to try the line on the input side..I need another hose barv..

The filter has less than 50 miles on it. the fuel is clean..filter to 2 micron before its pump into my storage tank and again going to the tank.
the Jeep is parked in a garage so gelling/clouding isn't a problem.

at the moment I took the lift pump out..I didn't since the setup should work stock. didn't help. I'm planning on putting it back but closer to the tank.

last night I clean/replaced the copper sealing rings on the banjo bolts..didn't help.

I'm wondering if it possible to use the filter head without the heater/temperature plugs..remove the puck?

the biodiesel is water washed several times. the number of times varies from batch to batch, but generally is around 4 bubble washes. then air dried..bubbled and fan blowing on top while the pump stirs. after its dry I put a filter in line with the setup for a couple of hours more..then pumped to storage. the other 2 diesel all get the same fuel. neither have a problem and they sit outside. of course this is the time of year I start watching the blending..gelling is a pain!

what is the filter rating of the stock filter?

Happy Thanksgiving

-dkenny

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:27 am

The rating on the stock filter is a discussion - not a number

Chrysler doesn't mention a number on it's filter
The Factory Service Manual has a one line comment about using a 3 micron filter.
Wix - makes a replacement filter and they specify 10 micron (Their generic advertising says meet or exceed OEM specs)

The 1 data point we have on a stock filter was old_navy pulling a sample for a lab -
and it measured very high - i.e. like the the filter paper was disintegrating.

Racor specifies 2 micron. (I don't know if synthetic or paper - I'd guess synthetic to hit 2)
The CAT adapter is at least 3 micron (synthetic media - doesn't disintegrate in water - more consistent)

To top it off - 1 number is not an accurate description - filters are properly measured in efficiency at a size
i.e. 90% at 2 micron, 95% at 5 micron, 99.9% at 10 micron ect, ect
and you can actually hit all of the spec's with one filter - depending on the efficiency number you look at.

personally I'm still on extended warranty - so I'm on stock.
but I'll change off warranty - probably CAT (I have the adapter)

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:44 am

The stock filter is "supposedly" 3 micron nominal. The Wix model claims 10 micron.

Water washed BD can be problematic this time of year. When it is initially washed and then bubble dried, it can only be dried to the point of max saturation. Remember that BD is hygroscopic and wants to hold onto a certain amount of water. When the temp is 90 degrees in the summertime, the saturation point is fairly high, but as the temp drops this time of year, the water can't remain in solution as the saturation point drops. This isn't always a problem, but if algae starts to grow you have trouble. Algae growth usually starts in the vehicle tank versus the storage tank because the fuel is kept warm by the fuel return from the engine. The amount of filtration in your production and storage setup is moot if you have algae in your Jeep's fuel tank.

I'm certainly not saying that this is definitely happening to your fuel, but because the stumbling problem was temporarily fixed by replacing the 2500 mile filter with a new one, it leads one to think that your problem is a fuel problem.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:49 am

nursecosmo - have you ever seen anything that states 3 micron?

all I've seen is the one line in the FSM - and that does not seem conclusive, it's more of a recommendation.

FYI - here's Fram grumping about filter rating numbers
http://www.fram.com/pdf/FluidFilterRating.pdf

it's on 03 paper
I haven't found anything saying their proposal was accepted - so I don't think there's a standard measurement yet

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:18 am

ATXKJ wrote:

nursecosmo - have you ever seen anything that states 3 micron?

all I've seen is the one line in the FSM - and that does not seem conclusive, it's more of a recommendation.

FYI - here's Fram grumping about filter rating numbers
http://www.fram.com/pdf/FluidFilterRating.pdf

it's on 03 paper
I haven't found anything saying their proposal was accepted - so I don't think there's a standard measurement yet

No I have only seen the same line which you have. I would tend to think that the true rating is closer to 10 microns.

dkenny · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:19 pm

darn I was hoping we actually knew the numbers..
I have Goldenrod fuel filter. I know its rated at 10 micron..so it might work or might not..

now for the twist..
I have removed the electric fuel pump.
the crankcase vent..i had plumb it like a provent but plugged the line going to intake..

the pinball machine is quite...no beep, no gascap, no throtle sensor light...everything is quite....

GO FIGURE???

I still need to move the fuel pump to the rear and replace the filter head..

-dkenny

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:02 pm

How are you priming the air out of the system if you have a Goldenrod filter? If you are using both the Goldenrod and the OE filter in series, I can tell you from personal experience that they will not play well together without the lift pump installed. They just create too much of a vacuum differential and cause air to be pulled from the fuel.

If your are using the Goldenrod cartridge type filter, they are only rated to 15 micron nominal. The spin on type go down to 10 micron but avoid the water-block filters. They will also not play well with biodiesel. The media swells up from any tiny amount of moisture and stops fuel flow. I don't know if you also have the Goldenrod brand filter head, but it will not play well with BD either. The head is made of a zinc pot metal alloy and after a few months is severely corroded by the biodiesel. It creates a sort of greenish mud on the interior surfaces which plugs the filter in no time at all. I was able to get a stainless head from a friend of mine with an HVAC business which solved the rapid filter plugging problem.

The Goldenrod filters are doable and cheap, but can be a headache until you get all the bugs worked out of the system.

dkenny · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:25 pm

at the moment I'm mounting the pump in the rear..and replacing the snap on connectors for the supply side.
the Racor R245r2 is on order.. so I won't be putting in the Golden rod filter.. If I had I would have put a valve on the output line of the filter for bleeding.

it looks like the factor filter head was leaking from the primer shaft.

-dkenny

dkenny · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:45 pm

just a word of caution for the other who are adding a lift pump..
and not an in tank pump..and replacing the quick connect fuel lines
make sure the the hose from teh tank to the pump does get kinked..my did..oops..
inch
I fixed it by adding a 90 degree 1/2inch pex pipe fitting and hose clamps..I used the 1/2 pex fitting because the local stores didn't carry a 3/8 inch 90 degree hose barb. also the outside diameters are very close..the pex is slightly larger.

-dkenny

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:04 pm

So how is it behaving now?

dkenny · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:00 pm

at the moment it runs ok. just hard to start..I think air gets sucked into the fuel head when it shuts down..just enough to cause hard starting.

in a couple of days we'll know for sure. I replace the fuel head with the racor unit.

-dkenny

hard starting/won't stay running

Who is online