nebie Need Help CRD blowing white smoke?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:08 am

fishkey wrote:

Ok since I just got this thing home. Up on the trailer I had a stream of Black oil Looks like it's off the pass. side of the engine block.
May be someone could guid me to a forum where it shows where exactly the oil lines are running from the turbo to the engine block.
Any Pics- Diagrams would be of great aid. :banghead:

That will be the turbo oil pressure feed line. Mine cracked at fitting on the block and made a mess on the side of the block requiring the replacement of steel oil line. Since I was traveling at 70 MPH it coated my trailer like JL Rockies pictures. My turbo still lives and doing well.

The line I replaced was number 2 of greendiesel turbo picture with banjo bolt on top and attached fitting on the bottom that attach to the block.

fishkey · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:02 pm

Ok at the last bolt on the Turbo. How do you get the one nut underneath tucked all the way in the bacK? I can't get a wrench nor a socket in there. Been wreching on this dam CRd for 5 hours. What's the magic trick? :banghead:

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:14 pm

I used a combination of short-length socket, 3/8 drive and an extension bar to get that one IIRC, going from the top of the motor. Or a standard open-end wrench with the 12-point ring on the other end. Use the ring end, it will fit in a tighter space.

And yea, that was a major PITA to get that last one... The first time. I got pretty good at pulling that after, turned it into a 10 minute job. Sad, isn't it?

Oh yea... Make sure you are turning it the right way. I spent 15 minutes trying to break one of those loose, only to figure out I was pulling the wrong direction. :banghead:

journeyjim · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:20 pm

geordi wrote:

I used a combination of short-length socket, 3/8 drive and an extension bar to get that one IIRC, going from the top of the motor. Or a standard open-end wrench with the 12-point ring on the other end. Use the ring end, it will fit in a tighter space.

And yea, that was a major PITA to get that last one... The first time. I got pretty good at pulling that after, turned it into a 10 minute job. Sad, isn't it?

Oh yea... Make sure you are turning it the right way. I spent 15 minutes trying to break one of those loose, only to figure out I was pulling the wrong direction. :banghead:

LEFTY Loosie, RIGHTY Tighty! :CAMPING:

fishkey · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:22 pm

I couldn't get a socket on from the under side for nothing. I can't see how you can get to it from the top either it's killing me I had to give up on it for today..
One of the top bolts Had to drilll& tap the nut,wound up pulling the whole stud out.
And Goridi you wre right my turbo is fried when I pulled the charge air hose off I felt the turbine again and it was very loose. I really coudn't feel any movement on the exhaust side. Sure it's bound up.
I talked to a guy at turbochargers.com They seemed like the best guys for a rebuilding job.
If I ever get the last nut off. When I do I will post some pics.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:53 pm

Granted it is your ride and your cash, but from personal experience I think you have one option: Replacement of the whole unit.

These things don't have a lot of moving parts, but do you REALLY want to trust the life of the turbo to being rebuilt after it obviously overheated a bearing and ripped something up? These don't have o-ring seals or anything like that, they are all metal. When it blows a seal or (what I suspect happened to you) the center shaft snaps for some reason... How much mechanical damage was caused? Mine was COMPLETELY frozen into the center cartridge, no chance of un-binding that shaft to rebuild it. It obviously friction-welded itself shut.

Now... Here is the good news: I have an almost-brand-new turbo that I might be willing to sell, for the right price. It isn't drilled for an EGT probe, but that wouldn't be the worst idea for you to do before installing it either.

Something to think about. The turbo has been sitting with the old engine, waiting for me to figure out it's future, so I have to go take a look at it and see if I would put it on my own CRD. I won't sell it unless it passes that test.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:30 pm

Ok, I just got done checking the turbo, and it is in fantastic shape. The spindle spins easily, and while it doesn't exist in a zero-friction environment, it isn't fighting me either. I felt no shaft play in any direction, so the bearings are nice and solid, and the snails (especially the iron one) are nice and clean - no rust or filth from not being on an engine for the last 10 months. The VNT arm moves smoothly, if a bit difficult to move b/c it is a very strong vac motor pushing against me. So no worries there, everything is exactly like I remember the brand-spanking-new one that I got before this one.

I would have no problems putting this on my engine, so I also would have no problems selling it for a fair price.

fishkey · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:45 am

So what's the Fair Price? Like you said I can't risk a problem turbo.
Where did this turbo come from? :dizzy:

Make me an package deal I can't refuse. :rockon:

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 am

Whats a fair price? Well, Mopar Parts America (Really just a broker for a dealership in Oregon) has the turbo listed for $854, and then they will hit you for about another $95 in shipping. I know this isn't that big an item, so that annoys me that they are asking so much for shipping.

How about 725 shipped with Paypal, or $700 if you send an M.O.? I hate giving Paypal money for their high fees, but they are convenient.

I'm happy to take any pics of the thing if you want it, and I'd even be willing to talk about a sale of the exhaust manifold from my old engine if you wanted that for some reason.

The history on this turbo is as follows: My original engine (the wrecked one that I am starting to part out now) blew it's turbo last year. That one is nothing more than the two outer halves now, the center cartridge is wrecked b/c the shaft is welded into it. If anyone wants the shells, LMK. They are fine, nothing more than the two solid snails of metal. Not gouged at all, amazingly. The VNT section was also in good shape.

Anyway. So I bought a new Turbo from a dealer buddy I know (cost me less than the MPA unit, even with the shipping) and set it up for an EGT probe. Installed it, 10 miles later my original engine ejects the #1 cylinder.
Nothing else to do, buy a new engine from a member here that had been planning on a re-power project, and this new engine comes with all the parts, including this turbo which I do not need.

The turbo I purchased before the engine had been drilled and tapped (welded a nut onto it actually) for an EGT probe, so the mechanic put that one onto the replacement engine, while the turbo for sale sat in a cardboard box inside the car for months, then inside my trailer. While not exactly climate controlled, it has been protected as well as any engine part can be, and doesn't show any rust or degradation at all. Like I said, I'd put this on my own CRD without a second thought if I thought it needed it.

--Jim

fishkey · **Posted:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:12 pm

Ok here are some pics of my Fried Turbo .As you can see it's full of Oil.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:23 pm

fishkey wrote:

Ok here are some pics of my Fried Turbo .As you can see it's full of Oil.
<img src="http://fishkey.smugmug.com/Machines/Garrett-turob/DSCN0480756/773525308_n8sEC-S.jpg">
<img src="http://fishkey.smugmug.com/Machines/Garrett-turob/DSCN0481757/773525654_hQGoV-M.jpg">
<img src="http://fishkey.smugmug.com/Machines/Garrett-turob/DSCN0479755/773524921_kEqo7-M.jpg">
<img src="http://fishkey.smugmug.com/Machines/Garrett-turob/DSCN0478754/773524600_LUYuQ-M.jpg">

Fixed the image links for you, because I'm a nice guy. Have you found your "fair price" $400 new turbo yet?

The last picture is out of focus so its hard to tell, but the exhaust turbine wheel doesn't look good. Do they spin at all? Any shaft play or looseness?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

What you have there is a very artistic doorstop! The turbine should almost be free of any soot, that one looked far gone.

With the right turbo your KJ will look like your avatar...

vegiH · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:24 pm

new turbo set me back $1050 plus shipping....ask around they never intended on these rigs to need new ones so there arean't alot of them.........worth the piece of mind though as I would not want to replace a VM 128 (my poickets are not that deep)...got a techie @ VM tell me buy everything you think you will every need as they don't make it any more and jeep is only obligated to produce parts until 2016...............
:2cents:

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:17 pm

Who do you know at VM?

The parts are plentiful, it's just about knowing where to look in the right places.

vegiH · **Posted:** Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:48 am

Diana D in Detroit connected me with a mike "in engineering" when I wanted concrete from the horses mouth tolerences for turbo spec (us and european) when I thought I wanted to rebuild my turbo...they told me THERE IS NO TOLERENCE ALLOWED for this turbo.....it should be thought of as beening remilled not rebuilt...these is a complicated turbo bolted to a our engine.I didn't want buy a engine to learn about the turbo........good people.....very personable.They stated the "new" 4 cyl is nothing like ours ,it will be much different build techniques.....I don't know which app there building it for But my 2.8 will bw replaced by one in its next life.

fishkey · **Posted:** Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:00 pm

Rear exhaust side no movement. Intake side turbine is loose.
I found a used one for $265. Rebuilt unit 6 month warranty $415 Delivered.
:juggle:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:53 am

In all honesty... Good luck with it, but I believe you will be back down this road in a very short time. Does the warranty cover another rebuild, or a full replacement when the center shaft snaps again? I'm with Mike at VM on this. Nice guy, and Diana was very helpful too when I talked with them, but their opinion was these things have WAY too tight tolerances to try rebuilding. I was told the top speed could easily shatter the housing if it vibrated even in micrometers.

It sounds like your turbo did almost exactly what mine did, the center shaft on the turbine side welded itself shut from the heat of a melted bearing, except your shaft snapped on the compressor side. With all the oil in those pictures, it is a wonder that the oil didn't head into the INTAKE and cause a runaway.

I said this before, I'll say it again: Saving money on some things is not saving any money when you have to buy it twice. And $150 for shipping... Are they sending it on it's own pallet? That is insane. I would build a little wood crate for shipping mine, with it shrinkwrapped inside. Shouldn't be more than the weight-rate for Fedex, MUCH less than that price you got for shipping it.

Shipping my entire ENGINE (with the spare turbo) from Texas was only $180... And that was a 4' cube on a pallet. Something doesn't compute.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:26 pm

Sorry, I just re-read the last couple of posts (thought something new was here) and I realize that your post about the replacement could be read as referencing two different turbos:

A used one for $265, shipping unknown
A rebuilt unit for $415 shipped.

If this is the case, ignore my comment about the shipping price, I read it the first time as only one turbo that was used and had been rebuilt... And the difference in price was what I assumed was the shipping.

Oops.

Those are good prices, based on the retail cost of a new unit... But I stand by my thoughts of a rebuilt for this engine. I don't think its a good idea, and neither do the VM reps in Michigan, who are probably _the_ most knowledgeable people in the entire USA about these engines.

Good luck with it, in all sincerity.

fishkey · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:46 pm

Thanks, I'am going the rebuilt route with warranty. That's the important part for me. And I Have purchased Rebuilt Turbos in the past never had a problem with them. Hopefully I won't with this one.I'am not a rich guy ,I would of really preferred to buy a new unit but times are tough.
I will keep everyone posted on the results.
:-)r

nebie Need Help CRD blowing white smoke?

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