2 cycle oil added to fuel

RJM · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:40 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

I have used 2 stroke since day one. no mpg increase, no power increase, runs quieter and easier to start.

How would you know? If used since day one.

I run every 8th tank without 2 stroke to avoid saturation.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:20 pm

This topic seems to come up from time to time. The fact is that our engines were designed under pre-ULSD secifications for fuel. Pre-ULSD had more lubricity than ULSD, so in the interest of injector pump and injector longevity, many use an additive to make up the difference.

The following was originally published on http://www.thedieselplace.com in 2007. Arlen Spicer and The Diesel Place ordered a blind study to determine which fuel additives actually provided lubricity and which ones did not. They ordered an independent lab study using a reciprocating ball bearing test to determine wear scar in the presence of different additives mixed with ULSD fuel.

"The U.S. standard for diesel fuel says a commercially available diesel fuel should produce a wear scar of no greater than 520 microns.

The Engine Manufacturers Association had requested a standard of a
wear scar no greater than 460 microns, typical of the pre-ULSD fuels.
Most experts agree that a 520 micron standard is adequate, but also that the lower the wear scar the better.

RESULTS
In Order Of Performance:
[these four provide the most wear scar negation = lubricity]

1) 2% REG SoyPower bio-diesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value

2) Opti-Lube XPD
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane Improver, Demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

3) FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas Fuel Treatment
Gas and Diesel
Cetane improver, Emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank

4) Opti-Lube Summer Blend
Multi-purpose
Demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank

[The following displayed a moderate gain in lubricity]

5) Opti-Lube Winter Blend
Muti-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane improver
HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement
512:1 ratio
6.5 oz/tank
$3.65/tank

6) Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane improver, Emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible
HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.87/tank

7) Super Tech Outboard 2-Cycle TC-W3 Engine Oil
Unconventional
(Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank

8 ) Stanadyne Lubricity Formula
Lubricity Only
Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.00/tank

9) Amsoil Diesel Concentrate
Multi-purpose
Demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.16/tank

[the following displayed a statistically insignificant effect on lubricity]

10) Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement
400:1 ratio
8.32 oz/tank
$1.58/tank

11) Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner
Multi-purpose
Alcohol free
HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.36/tank

12) Stanadyne Performance Formula
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Cetane improver, Demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement
480:1 ratio
6.9 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

13) Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15W-40, 5,000 miles used.
Unconventional
(Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems)
HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement (statistically insignificant change)
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
price: $0.00

14) Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or Diesel
HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant
change)
427:1 ratio
7.8 oz/tank
$2.65/tank

15) B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech
Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive
HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant
change)
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.67/tank

[the following actually made lubricity worse]

16) FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.12/tank

17) Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, Oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage
2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank

18) ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, Emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.38/tank

19) Primrose Power Blend 2003
Multi-purpose
Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, Emulsifier
HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline
1066:1 ratio
3.12 oz/tank
$1.39/tank

CONCLUSIONS:

Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an
HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements
requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.

Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an
HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.

Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to
perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will be investigated.

Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be
considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

Copyright© The Diesel Place & A. D. Spicer August, 2007

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:11 pm

RJM wrote:

vinyl acetate
ethylbenzene
naphthalene
xylene
1,2,4-trimethylbenzene
petroleum distillates
Nothing wrong with it, if you want to thin paint, just dont' want it in my tank.

Roger that... don't spill it on the paint :SOMBRERO:

RJM · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:09 pm

I work in close conjunction with a large charter bus company here in Canada, with the introduction of ULSD in late 2005 its interesting that over 65% of the units have had thier high pressure fuel pumps replaced as well as countless injectors. I am not a diesel mechanic,engineer or rocket scientist, but I am smart enough to figure out why these these parts are failing. :2cents:

flman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:27 pm

RJM wrote:

I work in close conjunction with a large charter bus company here in Canada, with the introduction of ULSD in late 2005 its interesting that over 65% of the units have had thier high pressure fuel pumps replaced as well as countless injectors. I am not a diesel mechanic,engineer or rocket scientist, but I am smart enough to figure out why these these parts are failing. :2cents:

Curious, What kind of engines are those buses running?

RJM · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:31 pm

CAT and Mercedes

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:56 pm

stoutdog wrote:

RJM wrote:

vinyl acetate
ethylbenzene
naphthalene
xylene
1,2,4-trimethylbenzene
petroleum distillates
Nothing wrong with it, if you want to thin paint, just dont' want it in my tank.

Roger that... don't spill it on the paint :SOMBRERO:

For the most part, these are the sort of things you'd find in gasoline or maybe kerosene, so there isn't anything too obscene about them. I do wonder what actual benefit they impart. I guess the aromatics may help the lubricity a little.

The one I would worry about is the vinyl acetate since it's something that can polymerize (actually is used to make polyvinylacetate which is converted into polyvinylalcohol) but there may not be enough there to even bother worrying about.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:47 pm

I wouldn't count on PowerService lubricating - but it's great if you have a fuel problem.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:46 pm

Wow, what a great thread... I'm glad I have enough power service to treat (but not really improve) over 500 gallons of fuel. I love the stats. This should be saved if linewarbr is right with those numbers.

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:02 am

The aforementioned Scar Negation chart is correct ...... seen this charting on other respectable sites like TDIclub.
I use 5% plus B99 and also Power Service and also TC-W3 (not all at the same time of course).
There is a Biodiesel outlet 1/4 mile from where I work and I get the other items at Walmart cause its cheap.

BTW..... Cheapest way to go is Biodiesel
And 200:1 on TC-W3 is approx 1/2 ounce to 1 gallon of fuel.
And the 2006 Jeep Liberty owner's book specifically states to use ULSD only (and that up to 5% bio mix "approved" by Jeep) so our CP3 IPs may be set for lower fuel lubricity capabilities and this may explain the instance of that previous posters ability to make 76000 miles with additional fuel lubing.

Roland

stoutdog · **Posted:** Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:50 am

Silverdiesel wrote:

The aforementioned Scar Negation chart is correct ...... seen this charting on other respectable sites like TDIclub.
I use 5% plus B99 and also Power Service and also TC-W3 (not all at the same time of course).
There is a Biodiesel outlet 1/4 mile from where I work and I get the other items at Walmart cause its cheap.

BTW..... Cheapest way to go is Biodiesel
And 200:1 on TC-W3 is approx 1/2 ounce to 1 gallon of fuel.
And the 2006 Jeep Liberty owner's book specifically states to use ULSD only (and that up to 5% bio mix "approved" by Jeep) so our CP3 IPs may be set for lower fuel lubricity capabilities and this may explain the instance of that previous posters ability to make 76000 miles with additional fuel lubing.

Roland

As an addendum to that, I believe that Jeep later approved of CRDs using up to B20.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The KJ CRD for the US market was unique compared to all the other Jeep diesel sold abroad. The Bosch fuel system had hardened coatings applied to critical parts to increase the ability to handle higher wear scar numbers. This allowed the US versions to be warrantied, however the cost of the high pressure components is more expensive with the treatment.

These types of coatings are fairly common on some Caterpillar injectors used in mining applications. Coal dust is around 2 microns in size and will pass through most filter systems into the engine. Coatings were added to extend the injector service life up to 3000-5000 hours depending on duty cycle.

Bio seems to be the best way of improving the lubricity, just need to change the filter a little more often due to build-up. This is a very informative thread!

RJM · **Posted:** Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:47 pm

I have asked this question several times and have never received a satisfactory answer: What is "Slick
Diesel"

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:48 pm

RJM wrote:

I have asked this question several times and have never received a satisfactory answer: What is "Slick
Diesel"

It's probably biodiesel, but it might be a synthesized version of it made from methane. You've heard of "SynDiesel"? It's popular with diesel drag racers because it improves cetane like biodiesel, but it's made from natural gas.

RJM · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:35 pm

Powerservice is very evasive when questioned about this, If it is bio why would it not show up on the data sheet? The word "slick" has two dictionary definitions: 1) polished, glossy or smooth. 2)superficial, sly ,untrustworthy and insincere. I think the later applies to PS and their marketing tactics.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:46 pm

It's not called a "Trademark" for nothing.

RJM · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:01 pm

A "Trademark" that does nothing.

RJM · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:31 pm

My intention is not to pee on anyone's Powerservice party. I really don't care what you put in your tank, just wanted to point out the obvious, if your adding PS and thinking your adding lubricity you may need to look at the studies and data. If you feel you need to clean your engine's fuel system I suppose you can be re-active and dump in a slug of Powerservice (IMO is just paint thinner) or be pro-active and use a good quality/blend of fuel and keep your engine well maintained.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:36 pm

Freakin' Canadians, man! Always wanting to pee on people and whatnot. . . :goink:

RJM · **Posted:** Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:50 pm

The extreme cold gives us a "sense of urgency" hee hee!

2 cycle oil added to fuel

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