Would you want a rear bumper WITHOUT a heavy tire carrier?

JDaPP · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:31 pm

I know some of the Jeep JK bumpers have tire carriers that opens the same as the door so you get the best of both worlds. I would be interested in something like that to continue my quest for laziness.

http://www.rockslideengineering.com/servlet/the-2/R-dsh-SE-Ridge-Series-Rear/Detail

http://www.quadratec.com/products/12049_201X_PG.htm

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:18 pm

I just want a metal back bumper period!

Terry

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:36 pm

Fulltimer wrote:

I just want a metal back bumper period!

Terry

Then you can have my NEW RL Komodo Dragon Bumper with Carriers, $1940.00

Boiler · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:47 pm

tommudd wrote:

I have to agree that the added weight is not good
BUT
I have had several swing old carriers on old EBs and FS Broncos and they have all been one HUGE pain in the behind to continually open and close to put things in the back. Hate them but what are you going to do?
I still think a supporting arm for the current gate OR an adjustable mount underneath that would ride under the tire and hold it solid, when you close the gate the tire would be resting on the "foot" and therefore no movement.
But then who listens to me :banghead:

Well like most ideas offered (or came up with by us for that matter) just about everything has a cost, either in dollars or in functionality. In this case, do you clamp up against the tire every time you close the door with a seperate mechanism, or do you ride up a small ramp, using rollers as the support surface? Then when someone is setting the height, they slide it up into contact, move the tire away, then slide it up another 1/16" or 1/8" and that way it always applies an upward load on the tire? Certainly you'd need rollers though I'd think. What sucks is when the tailgate is open, you've got a bracket with rollers sticking out about testicle high....

tommudd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:31 pm

Again you are way over thinking it and the lower height of the tire would not be higher than the upper top part of the bumper itself .
Currently the tire hangs below the bumper , right?
So how high up do you want to put it?
I like to see out of my rear glass, so maybe an inch or two would be enough.
It would work without rollers, a small foot that is tapered up towards the body would work with out a lot of work, or that would take a lot of force to close.

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:27 am

Boiler wrote:

Designing a rear bumper is harder than it looks. I've had several people tell me to start with it because it is simple compared to the front...yeah right!

Right now I'm going back and forth, one feature messing up another, adjusting and tweaking endlessly trying to make room for lights (and to get them in and out with the bumper on, towing, swing out pivot, recovery points, clearance, etc etc. I spent 8 hours on it tonight and basically am just in a bigger mess. :roll:

Some sleep and a day with the kids and I'll pick up where I left off tomorrow. And to think I was planning on mocking it up out of cardboard sunday...

Now you at least you know why it took RL so long to get his out, and why it took so long to build and then why he charged what he did... For a good solid bumper that is not simply a cheap ugly POS, it is going to take time and $

JMSMN · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:05 pm

Not to sound like a stupid question but the bumper will be made out of steel correct?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:07 pm

JMSMN wrote:

Not to sound like a stupid question but the bumper will be made out of steel correct?

No

corwyyn · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:42 pm

FreedomKJ wrote:

Here's an idea I've thought about many times but never really brought up…

Having a swing away tire carrier that you have to unlatch and open before opening the door seems to be a pain. How about building the tire carrier so the weight is carried by the bumper, like all other swing away tire carriers, but instead of a latch to hold it in place you attach an arm to the mounting location of the original tire mount on the rear door. Then when you open the door the tire carrier opens with it.

I've never seen one like that, but it seems to me it would be just a bit of simple geometry to get it working.

Here is one a local guy fabbed up that allows the carrier to swing with the tailgate - granted it is on a Wrangler but I'm sure the design could be adapted to fit ours:

Full thread here.

corwyyn · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:47 pm

dgeist wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

CRD Joe wrote:

With respect, that RL Kamoto rear bumper is the ****. Make one like that and youll be doing fine.

Wow, we can type doo doo now? Next thing you know we'll be able to type Jesus or something.

Out of curiousity, did you type "doo doo"? That's supposed to auto-replace from the other word, but it looks like the original didn't work and the response did...

I imagine he typed the actual word for doo doo and the censor caught it but on the other one it apparently thought that the period on the end made it a new word - it is changed in the censor now and shouldn't be an issue :wink:

OK, who changed it to ****? I had a perfectly good alternate in there

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:52 pm

corwyyn

Thanks for posting that , neat design for sure, I had my tire off the other day opening and closing the gate trying to design/ draw up something similar.

Lancer · **Posted:** Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:25 pm

I do like the look of a swing-out carrier, but I prefer the convenience of the gate-mounted spare. As well - and importantly, I like to preserve the visibility through the rear window. I'd be reluctant to sacrifice that - especially given the traffic we get in Britain. There are times that I'd like the whole vehicle to be transparent!
I do like Tommud's suggestion of a "foot" to brace the rear tyre - ingeniously simple solution, but how easy would it be to implement?
Will the bumper be aluminium?

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Lancer wrote:

I do like Tommud's suggestion of a "foot" to brace the rear tyre - ingeniously simple solution, but how easy would it be to implement?

A "foot" would be very easy to do really.
If you look at the JK that Currie Enterprises built back in 2007 and was featured in the May 08 copy of 4Wheel Drive and Sport Utility they did the same thing . A one inch diameter rod was run from the hitch up under the tire. Now of course it would have to be adjustable due to the different tires we run, but fairly simple really. I don't think Boiler really likes the idea but it is like I said simple and would work to help support the tire. I mean if Currie can do it with the money they have to play with why not us :mrgreen:

Boiler · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:09 am

Sorry for the late replies. Haven't barely logged in last few days.

USAFCOP yes, it takes a ton of time and money. I respect his prices 100%. Everyone wants cheap, but then want lots of features and great looks. Well I'm doing my best to keep the costs down, but I'm not sacraficing looks, strength, function, etc.

Yes, my bumper will be aluminum, 1/4" plate. Today I got 70% of the swing out & tire carrier done. I had given up on having it open and close with the tailgate, but the last example of that opened my eyes a little. I may revisit have to consider it. The only thing I still don't know about is not having a really tight clamp to lock it down. You wouldn't want it suspended freely in the air, bouncing around. It would put a lot of stress on the hinge and on the little slide attachment to the tailgate, not to mention be loud and clanky. Now if you could unlock it and then just open it with one motion with the tailgate, you might have something, but like everything else, it has a price.

I'd say I'm 85-90% done with the design modeling at the moment. I still need to set up part numbers & materials, do drawings, get about 40 parts quoted and ordered, design a welding jig, detail it, quote and order its parts, and then make the welding jig and then I can start fabricating the bumper. We're still shooting for first weekend in April but its going to be really tight, might be a few weeks after that.

We did make a cardboard mockup of the exterior of the bumper and everything seems to fit properly, though its tough to know for sure because it is slightly flexible.

Lancer · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:49 am

Boiler wrote:

I'd say I'm 85-90% done with the design modeling at the moment. I still need to set up part numbers & materials, do drawings, get about 40 parts quoted and ordered, design a welding jig, detail it, quote and order its parts, and then make the welding jig and then I can start fabricating the bumper. We're still shooting for first weekend in April but its going to be really tight, might be a few weeks after that.

We did make a cardboard mockup of the exterior of the bumper and everything seems to fit properly, though its tough to know for sure because it is slightly flexible.

Not much left to do then :lol:

Will the alu bumper be able to take the strain of the recovery eyes, or will there be steel reinforcement for that? Also, I assume that the bumper will fit with the factory tow ball? The reason I ask, is that in Europe we are not allowed to use the 2" box hitch that you have for towing purposes on any vehicle built after 1997. I gather that we can use the box hitch(if one is fitted to the bumper) for recovery, so I'm happy with that, but I'd like to be able to keep my MOPAR towball for trailers.
You may have already answered these questions, but I just can't find where!

I won't be able to buy a bumper from you until I'm safely back in work, but I plan on keeping the KJ for some years, and a metal rear bumper was on my shopping list - it was going to be the RL until unemployment hit

Boiler · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:42 am

I'm not familiar with "box hitch" or "Mopar tow ball". Got any details?

If you order my bumper without a towing reciever, it will fit with the mopar hitch. With the built in hitch you will not be able to use an OEM hitch. Which would be kind of weird but I'm sure someone will want to do both...

My recovery points are 1" thick aluminum welded to 1/4" plate, which is backed by a 3/8" plate rib in the upper portion, and a 4" x 3" x 3/8" angle in the lower portion that goes back to the frame rails.

Lancer wrote:

Not much left to do then :lol:

I know it sounds like I just started doesn't it :lol:

Well I've spend about 4-6 hours per night for about a month, I'm getting to where I need a vacation that's for sure. Go to work in the AM, kids for 2 hours, put them to bed, get started on bumper, for about 5 hours, go to bed and get 5 hours sleep, start over. Going on 5th week straight of that.

oddball · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:02 am

Hey Chip, starting a successful business is hard work. Like the old saying goes, it takes blood, sweat & tears to make it work.

Speaking of which - you should consider now that you're producing aluminum roof racks, a gas tank skid, and I gather soon a aluminum rear bumper for the KJ, you should consider doing a aluminum rear bumper for TJ Wranglers (maybe JK Wranglers later). Two reasons - 1., No one currently offers a aluminum rear bumper for the Wrangler (there is a aluminum front bumper offered from Savvy). 2., In addition to number one, I'm betting you would sell these based on the popularity of saving weight on the TJ Wranglers (much larger market than JK Wranglers) these days making you a ton of money. There are at least 2 mfg's who offer aluminum skids (engine / trans, Transfer case & gas tank, for the TJ Wrangler. These too are becoming hot items from word of mouth by the people using them. It's a numbers game which can only grow your business. Unless you want to stay small out in the garage simply producing products for KJ's / KK's and taking frequent vacations you can't afford.

I've seen your stuff in person and your good at what you do. You can take a vacation later. :wink:

Just a thought. :2cents:

Lancer · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:23 pm

Sorry - box hitch - what we sometimes call the type of hitch you guys have - because it looks like a box:) The Mopar tow ball is the factory hitch, just where you have the square box receiver, we have a swan-neck 50mm towball, which can either be fixed - if you tow a lot, or detachable(which I have) if you don't. The recommended max load is 3500kg either way.

So if I want to keep my factory tow hitch, I order the bumper without a hitch, but with the recovery points:) That's ok. From the sound of it, steel reinforcement is unnecessary the way you've engineered it - good, keeps the weight down!

Another reason to get back to work :lol:

Boiler · **Posted:** Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:57 pm

oddball wrote:

Hey Chip, starting a successful business is hard work. Like the old saying goes, it takes blood, sweat & tears to make it work.

Speaking of which - you should consider now that you're producing aluminum roof racks, a gas tank skid, and I gather soon a aluminum rear bumper for the KJ, you should consider doing a aluminum rear bumper for TJ Wranglers (maybe JK Wranglers later). Two reasons - 1., No one currently offers a aluminum rear bumper for the Wrangler (there is a aluminum front bumper offered from Savvy). 2., In addition to number one, I'm betting you would sell these based on the popularity of saving weight on the TJ Wranglers (much larger market than JK Wranglers) these days making you a ton of money. There are at least 2 mfg's who offer aluminum skids (engine / trans, Transfer case & gas tank, for the TJ Wrangler. These too are becoming hot items from word of mouth by the people using them. It's a numbers game which can only grow your business. Unless you want to stay small out in the garage simply producing products for KJ's / KK's and taking frequent vacations you can't afford.

I've seen your stuff in person and your good at what you do. You can take a vacation later. :wink:

Just a thought. :2cents:

I know you're right. For the same effort I could have about 100x more potential customers. I just love the (my) Liberty so it is tough not to finish the fab items I want to do on it first.

Neatus · **Posted:** Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:29 pm

Tire carrier....the 32" tire is already almost too big for the rear gate.

Would you want a rear bumper WITHOUT a heavy tire carrier?

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