GDE Turbo Kit Customer Eval

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Past Eco and Hot tune owner now running their Turbo kit.

First, overall impression is very positive.

Highlights
1. Extremely strong acceleration up to about 45, and still impressive up to 70 (haven’t gone faster than that yet). Significantly stronger feeling than Hot tune performance.
2. Steady state fuel efficiency appears to be at least as good as Eco and Hot tunes. This morning’s commute to work showed an EVIC reading of 30.1 mpg. Comparing similar environmental conditions in the past (wind speed/direction, air temp, etc.) shows it might be slightly better. However, I have no comparison data on the accuracy of the turbo tune EVIC results and hand calculated results.
3. Great customer support. There were some issues that arose during the installation process but GDE provided very fast and helpful directions.

One thing I’d like to see improved is a few areas in the instructions didn’t correspond correctly with the actual kit parts. This caused some confusion and delay but I was kind of expecting this being one of the first customers to do the install.

As far as the install process goes . . . I would not recommend tackling this yourself unless you have a good supply of tools and some experience doing similar type mechanical things. There are a lot of places that would be easy to really mess things up. It took me about 14-16 hrs to do the install. I’ve never pulled/installed a turbo before so I went slow and deliberate and was likely slower than a lot of other people might be. I started doing the removal process the day after I sent my ECU and check to GDE for the kit. Spent 2-3 hrs a night doing the removal process until the kit arrived. I’d recommend breaking this process up like I did as it is incredibly tedious, hand cramping work getting some of those bolts and nuts loose. My goodness I’m glad that process is over.

I’ll try to post some follow up results. Got a co-worker who recently got a G-Tech device I might try to borrow to record 0-60 times and maybe some hp/tq plots. Or I might spring for a dyno run at the local shop. I unfortunately won’t have any “before” data to compare the Hot tune to the Turbo kit. I was kind of stretching my discretionary budget the way it was to get the kit and didn’t spring for a dyno run with the Hot tune . . .

flman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:54 am

Congrats on the GDE turbo kit :BANANA:

Are you the first customer to GDE for this item?

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

I was told by GDE there was another person running the kit but I don't know who, nor have I seen any evaluations from them.

The power delivery is very smooth as well. Very linear response from the fuel pedal to what goes to the tires. Except when you floor it

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:01 pm

Thanks so much for posting this link. Its great to hear about products from the GDE guys. Im considering this mod, but when I factor everything into it (cost and installation costs) its a pretty big hit. A person could do a lot of KJ mods for the cost of the overall turbo kit. Ill continue to consider it though.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

CRD Joe wrote:

Thanks so much for posting this link. Its great to hear about products from the GDE guys. Im considering this mod, but when I factor everything into it (cost and installation costs) its a pretty big hit. A person could do a lot of KJ mods for the cost of the overall turbo kit. Ill continue to consider it though.

I hear you. Debated this mod with myself over and over for a couple months. Dollar per hp I believe the GDE Hot tune is a far better value. In the end for me it was worthwhile because I had been seriously considering a BMW X5 diesel but couldn't justify the ridiculous price tag and I've been able to scratch-my-itch by purchasing and modify (by investing some serious time, and thanks to GDE) this CRD to near BMW performance (some key-to-me aspects less, some more) for $35-40k less than the X5 and significantly less recurring insurance/license costs. Plus I'll need to track the urea injection emission systems on these new diesels for several years before I'm convinced those are an acceptable cost/benefit tradeoff.

flman · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:23 pm

TDI, you sold me on the Hot tune, so I am sending my Eco ECU in next week for a reflash up to Hot with the improved evic accuracy. Another thing that sold me was, my wife drives the Hot tuned Sport 99% of the time, it is sort of our beater, and she uses it for her business. Any ways, she said she hears a noise on right and left turns. So we took it out last night, and no noise. Any ways, since I had not drove it in a while, I noticed I barely had to put the accelerator down compared to the Eco Jeep. You can really feel the torque on the Hot tune, even at low cruising speeds, I guess that is why you can easily get a TC shudder.

As far as the turbo kit goes, I would definitely consider it in the event that I had to replace my turbo. And I agree it is a better deal then buying any diesel that is 2007 and up. I plan on hanging on to my 2001 Cummins as long as practicable.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

First fillup post turbo kit. EVIC showed 30.2 and hand calculated number was 29.4 mpg. I don't like to base results on one fillup, but it's the best mpg I've had since last fall by a significant margin. This was typical back & forth to work driving for me, although the weather has been warming up.

It is looking like GDE has given an option for more hp, tq AND efficiency. Great job guys.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

One important thing I'd like to add about the turbo to manifold bolts. The GDE instructions said to use a 13mm. I "felt" like I was about to round the heads off on the 2nd bolt I was removing so I switched to a 1/2 in instead. I don't know if my 06 is different than normal, but here's a look at the size of these bolts as measured with my micrometer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4465051483/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4465827458/

fastRob · **Posted:** Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:25 pm

The exhaust manifold shields were 1/2", I dinged the heads of one due to 13mm socket.
The rear shield had 13mm bolts. The front were different.
Go figure.

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:48 am

I'm still getting what I consider to be excessive turbo lag even after the ECO tune. Does this mod spool up faster?

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

TJ2 wrote:

I'm still getting what I consider to be excessive turbo lag even after the ECO tune. Does this mod spool up faster?

I would say, "yes".

I've been kind of cross posting here and over on GDE's website. Think I'll try to focus over on here . . .

I was doing some 0-60 runs this afternoon. I was launching in 2wd and the wheels would lite up for an instant and then the traction control light would start flashing for 1-2 secs and start braking the wheels to keep them from spinning . . . I still managed (just using a stop watch and the speedometer so it's not real precise) 8.4-8.7 sec times with a full tank of D2, the spare tire, and some groceries. Air temps were 54F and some pretty good cross wind and GPS indicated ~800 ft of elevation (and did it multiple times in both directions of the road so the time range above didn't favor one direction in case it wasn't as flat as it looked).

Is there a way to turn off the traction control? Would it be better to launch in full time 4wd or would that put the front differential in jeopardy as I've read it's kind of weak and if you hop the front wheels there's a good chance of things breaking . . .

Also, I originally had a "whoosh" sound that would start at high boost levels which appeared to come from the new downpipe/exhaust junction. I didn't weld that interface but used a clamp. This morning I used a bigger wrench and tightened the clamp some more and the "whoosh" was gone on this afternoons full fuel runs.

Oh, another question: I'm planning to put this on a superflow dyno next week but I'm not sure how to keep the TC locked up at lower rpm's. I was messing around with that this afternoon with the overdrive off and starting at ~1700 rpm in 3rd (1:1) lockup but if I give it full fuel it just unlocks. Even at ~2100 rpm's at full fuel it will unlock. I can do it where it's not full fuel and it stays locked but that won't let the dyno show the full power/torque of the GDE turbo kit. Any suggestions on how to keep the TC locked up during a chassis dyno run?

flman over on GDE's site suggested pushing the ESP button to turn the TC off. But from what I've read that only shuts of ESP and Traction Control is separate. I read this just a few minutes ago (viewtopic.php?t=38483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) which suggested pulling the ABS fuse to completely eliminate Traction Control. I may have to try that later this week . . .

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Got my co-workers G-Tech Pro RR. Just did some messing around with it. I "need" one of these things.

Back to the same place/location and launched in 2wd, ESP off, and still have significant ABS modulation to control wheel spin. The G-tech reported the following:

60' 2.345 s
330' 6.744 s
1/8 ml 10.48 @ 64.63 mph (I lifted off the fuel just after 60 mph as the speed limit is 55)
0-60mph 8.414 sec (right in line with my stop watch results from a few days ago)

Then I did the full time 4wd launches. First one is with just a bit of boost buildup with the brake applied before launch. Still some initial wheel spinning.

60' 2.216 s
330' 6.452 s
1/8 ml 10.122 s @ 66.94 mph (again lifted out just after crossing 60)
0-60mph 7.816 sec

Re-did the run with more boost buildup before launch. Initial wheel spin . . .

60' 2.162 s
330' 6.373 s
1/8 ml 10.022 s @ 66.33 mph (again lifted out just after crossing 60)
0-60mph 7.656 sec

Additional non-stock items include: I've got 235/75R16 General Grabber HTS tires, almost a full tank of fuel, a Discoverer ATR 215/85R16 spare tire (heavy), V6 airbox mod, Magnaflow mufller, stanadyne FM100 with a 5um filter, lift pump.

Ambient conditions: Air temp was 62F and elevation is ~ 800 ft.

Color me impressed with GDE's turbo kit.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Bought my own G-Tech Pro RR. It arrived today and . . . I couldn't resist. Got the rpm's to sync up with my vehicle.

Back to the same place. Air temp was 76 today. I removed the spare tire this time and the tank was down to ~2/3. I filled up with 8.7 gallons after these runs. I estimated the total weight at 4800 lbs based on some things I've read from others who have weighed their vehicles. I've got heavier wheels than stock, a heavy tow hitch, etc. I think I'm close but it could be off +/- 100 lbs.

I re-did the full time 4wd launch but with a little less brake launch than both previous runs due to concern over excessive forces on the drivetrain. I didn't hear any tires break loose this time.

60' 2.171
330' 6.371
1/8 ml 9.974 @ 69.20 mph (kept the fuel going all the way this time)
0-60mph 7.518 sec

The G-Tech recorded a hp of 154.7 at 3627 rpm and max tq of 244.3 ft-lbs at 3306 (the torque converter never locked and spun up so fast it didn't really record any rpm's below 3300 rpm.

So then I decided I would try to do a full 1/4 mile run with the OD off button to see what that would do. I didn't do 4wd as I'm not sure what safe speeds are with all that stuff engaged and I was pretty sure I'd be going pretty fast . . .

I got on the interstate, pulled over on the median and waited for a good, long gap to launch. 2wd with ESP on and a fair bit of brake launch. Lots of tire chirping and traction control lights flickering. Horrible launch. But I'm not going to try that again anytime soon because as I was slowing down from almost 100 (it was at a 100 faster than I anticipated) I saw flashing lights ahead in the distance. SHAZAM! I had visions of loosing my license . . . fortunately it was a cop who had already pulled over a car going in the opposite direction. I didn't look to see if he also had a G-Tech suction cupped to his windshield . . .

60' 2.551 (horrible, a full 0.4 sec worse than the previous 4wd launches and 0.2 worse than the previos 2wd launch with ESP off)
330' 6.798 (also significantly worse than the previous 4wd launch)
1/8 ml 10.298 @ 72.28 mph (time is still slower but the speed is much faster )
0-60mph 7.626 sec
1/4 ml 15.702 @ 92.57 mph

The G-Tech recorded a hp of 201.7 at 3644 rpm and max tq of 330.5 ft-lbs at 3027. The lower rpm for the torque compared to the previous run appears to have occurred due to the TC locking up in 3rd and dragging the rpm's down further than with the TC unlocked.

It appears that a full time 4wd launch with the OD off would give the optimum results, but I'm gonna be A LOT more careful next time I do something stupid like this. Here, hold my beer.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

I found this Car and Driver comparison of devices like the G-Tech to actual track times really interesting.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/05 ... k_-feature

On both vehicles the G-Tech was consistently ~0.1 sec slower than actual track times.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:22 am

Wow, I am impressed. That is seriously fast for a heavy SUV. I wonder, at this altitude, could I give those SRT8 Grands a run for their money. What are the numbers on those things at 5000ft elevation I wonder.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Thanks. GDE did a great job with this package.

I don't think this was mentioned on this thread yet, but I removed the mechanical fan during the winter and all these runs are without the fan on the vehicle.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Got some of the data loaded into the G-tech software. I love data.

Here's the speed vs time plots of the 2 runs. The 4wd mode seems to suck some extra power out of what's delivered to the ground. Perhaps 1/4 ml runs are faster with the 2wd if one could keep the wheels from spinning?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4481711086/

The G force plots demonstrates the traction control interference at the launch.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N ... otostream/

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

So I did some more playing with my GTech device this weekend. I’ve measured some interesting things.

First, wanted to verify the flatness of the terrain. Below is GPS altitude data for the area I’m doing the runs. The two plots are recorded data from both directions. Elevation appears to be essentially flat within the margin of error of the altimeter.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4515850049/

I can get the best results (0-60, 1/8 ml, ¼ ml) if I launch in 2wd with the OD off and ESP off with just a bit of brake boost for the launch. If I do too much boost then tires spin and traction control turns on and sucks power to the ground to keep the wheels from slipping. If I do just a little brake boost the wheels only slip a minimal amount and no flashing TC lights and the power gets to the ground with minimal interference. See picture link below which compares last weeks ¼ ml run to this weeks. I’m a little shocked and feel this needs to be duplicated because the results seem too fast.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4516457020/

After about 2-3 back-to-back-to-back full fuel runs the performance starts to degrade. This is either from heat soak of the intercooler or transmission fluid temps or fuel temps. The G-Tech definitely shows this to be true because the measured hp/tq/G forces become less and less after several of these full fuel runs with minimal recovery time (I’ve been basically mashing it, braking it, turning around, mashing it, braking it, turning around, etc.).

I also did some lower rpm torque/hp curves to fill in the results at rpm’s closer to peak torque. I found it really tricky to get a good low rpm data curve without the torque converter unlocking .

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4516457156/

It should be noted that the hp/tq plots had a weight of 4800 lbs for the vehicle and me. Upon further review of this thread (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24628&p=326898&hilit=weigh#p326898) I think I’ve over estimated the weight. I weigh about 170 with shoes/clothes so I’m guessing my vehicle (with the spare tire for the Saturday runs) was about 4550 instead of 4800. So the hp/tq numbers should be reduced by 4550/4800~0.95 (5%).

I’ve also recorded the following hand calculated mpg’s for the last several fillups:

30.5 mpg: ~50% back and forth to work, ~50% a 50 ml trip to Cedar Falls Famous Daves and back with mostly 75 mph interstate.

27.0 mpg: Mostly 75 mph interstate. ½ into a head wind, ½ with tail wind but in rain. And several hrs in 4x4 with a trailer hauling fresh chain sawed oak from my dads forest to the barn.

28.4 mpg: Mostly back and forth to work with some city driving.

23.5 mpg: Mostly full fuel runs from Saturday.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:55 am

TJ2 wrote:

I'm still getting what I consider to be excessive turbo lag even after the ECO tune. Does this mod spool up faster?

Do you have a lift pump :?:

Some, myself included, have cured what was discribed as "turbo lag" and was actually air in the fuel by the addition of a lift pump :pepper:

Expecially if the amount of lag varies. Check your prime pump for being firm. I have a lift pump and there's no noticable lag :mrgreen:

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

Just updating things. The GDE turbo kit is still running exceptionally well. Now that most of the road construction is done on my normal back and forth to work route, using the GDE TCM, and re-addressed the dragging brake issue again, I've broke 30 mpg for 2 fillups in a row. Was never able to do this with the eco or hot tunes. Some of it may be the TCM, but the vast majority of my route doesn't take advantage of the TCM capabilities.

GDE Turbo Kit Customer Eval

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