Alternative to Euro/Suncoast TC's?

DynoPax · **Posted:** Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:09 am

Are there any viable alternatives out there, apart from the Euro or Suncoast TC's?

I'm about to order the Hot tune from GDE, got my hands on a pre-F37 TCM but would also require to replace the OEM TC... Tried to get the dealer to replace right before the warranty expired (Libby was in for a failed solenoid pack) but instead, he went into a complete denial about the 5-45RFE having any TC issues with our CRD's :roll:

Obviously, I was pointing out details that showed a certain knowledge about the problem and that kindda made them a bit touchy and unreceptive to suggestions, hence more :roll:

from my part!

So, since I'll be doing the job myself, I'm trying to get all my options open in the TC dept. I'm no expert mechanic but am not afraid to hold my own when time comes to dirty my hands. Only thing, I want this to be a one-shot deal and be done with further replacement. The Euro TC does not seem to get full approval or thrust, Suncoast does not come cheap in comparison and I've read some using the HEMI converter.

Any ideas/suggestions would be great!

Thx!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:09 pm

Factor in that if you don't have the new front pump ~$300 you can install the new front pump valve and springs that comes with the Transgo kit, and eliminate one common cause of shutter. Both Transgo and Sonnax have fixes for the crappy front pump valves where the bore the valve travels in wears out and fails to seat. Sonnax requires a $1,500 tool to redo the bore and press in a hardened sleeve.
I would recommend you either replace the front pump or do the Transgo fix along with the Torque Converter you choose.

The Hemi converter is designed for a V8 gasoline engine and its' respective HP and Torque curves. Our VM 2.8L produces its' peak torque at half the RPM.
Knocking ~$230 off the cost (new front pump-Transgo) Sweetened the SunCoast purchase for me so now I have a true Diesel torque converter, now my biggest problem will be scheduling a couple days off so I can do the swap.

Other option, have a friend with the equipment to build a Torque Converter from a Sonnax kit?
http://www.sonnax.com/part_finder.php?p ... y_sc=false
Make sure they beef up the springs to the 0.100 spring wire and replace the phenolic stator with an aluminum one.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:32 pm

I can say one thing. I have the HOT tune, NON F-37 TCM, bigger tires...and NO shudder now with the Euro TC.

TDIwyse · **Joined:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:44 am **Posts:** 91

I only replaced the TC with the new Euro unit. Nothing else. As far as I know GDE only replaced their TC and not the pump. No shudder with the highest torque option out there.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:05 pm

TDIwyse wrote:

I only replaced the TC with the new Euro unit. Nothing else. As far as I know GDE only replaced their TC and not the pump. No shudder with the highest torque option out there.

Got your plane ticket to Las Vegas yet?
Better hurry while you still have your luck.
You might win enough to build more toys.
Good Luck :!:

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:42 am

I know of more people on the forums that have ONLY a TC than I do people who did the pump+TC at the same time.

Also...we need to start looking into a 6-speed manual conversion. For the kind of money we are spending on TCs and such...we could solve our problems permanently with a manual tranny swap.

Just imagine all that added fuel economy from being able to stay in 6th gear from 35 or 40 MPH and beyond.... :JEEPIN:

DynoPax · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:59 am

Well, it's done! Euro TC it is, ordered through Mopartz.com...

Thx for the feedback... :google:

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:20 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

I know of more people on the forums that have ONLY a TC than I do people who did the pump+TC at the same time.

Also...we need to start looking into a 6-speed manual conversion. For the kind of money we are spending on TCs and such...we could solve our problems permanently with a manual tranny swap.

Just imagine all that added fuel economy from being able to stay in 6th gear from 35 or 40 MPH and beyond.... :JEEPIN:

Yea, but swapping out the transmission would be $$$$. Here's to hoping that any future TCM modifications address the issue sufficiently....

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:12 pm

stoutdog wrote:

Yea, but swapping out the transmission would be $$$$. Here's to hoping that any future TCM modifications address the issue sufficiently....

In the works, been done for the Dodge Cummins guys, hope we are next.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:03 pm

stoutdog wrote:

Yea, but swapping out the transmission would be $$$$. Here's to hoping that any future TCM modifications address the issue sufficiently....

I tell you what, I would be happy with installing controls to make it a shiftable automatic - especially if it included a new install kit. TCM reprogram or replacement, new shifter and wiring for the gear selection, etc. I know Chrysler has the "Autostick" for the 545rfe, I'm guessing it is a matter of TCM programming more than anything else.

Ahem. . . GDE? Suncoast? Are you listening?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:14 pm

linewarbr wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

Yea, but swapping out the transmission would be $$$$. Here's to hoping that any future TCM modifications address the issue sufficiently....

I tell you what, I would be happy with installing controls to make it a shiftable automatic - especially if it included a new install kit. TCM reprogram or replacement, new shifter and wiring for the gear selection, etc. I know Chrysler has the "Autostick" for the 545rfe, I'm guessing it is a matter of TCM programming more than anything else.

Ahem. . . GDE? Suncoast? Are you listening?

I'm with you there... that would be great! A manual would be awesome, I'm just not sure it would be worth the cost.

Of course, Warp's option from the Suncoast guys, if it comes together, could be an even easier solution. We shall see! *fingers crossed*

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:58 pm

What option, exactly, is forthcoming from Suncoast? I have read intimations on here about it - and also an option from GDE - but can find no solid information anywhere except that "something is coming."

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:28 pm

The EATX trans module used on the KJ is old as, well, really old. As far as I know, it won't support the autostick and certainly doesn't have the input/output capacity for it.

For autostick, you're talking about moving to the NGC-IV trans module. However, the autostick is controlled by CAN so you're going to need a different shifter module. The NGC has different CAN messaging than the EATX and different requirements in terms of ECU and TCU interaction, so it's not going to work without a software change on both parts which isn't really feasible.

This would be opening up a whole can of worms like no other, but might be fun for the person with an endless supply of time and money.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:30 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

The EATX trans module used on the KJ is old as, well, really old. As far as I know, it won't support the autostick and certainly doesn't have the input/output capacity for it.

For autostick, you're talking about moving to the NGC-IV trans module. However, the autostick is controlled by CAN so you're going to need a different shifter module. The NGC has different CAN messaging than the EATX and different requirements in terms of ECU and TCU interaction, so it's not going to work without a software change on both parts which isn't really feasible.

This would be opening up a whole can of worms like no other, but might be fun for the person with an endless supply of time and money.

Party pooper... :dead:

Thanks for the clarification, Mr. Mopar :SOMBRERO:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:45 pm

linewarbr wrote:

What option, exactly, is forthcoming from Suncoast? I have read intimations on here about it - and also an option from GDE - but can find no solid information anywhere except that "something is coming."

What is in the sights for SunCoast is an CRD version of what has been done for Dodge Cummins with the 68RFE. One thing Ron Wolverton has done on his son's 1500 Ram with a 545RFE is making it into a six speed. 1 st =1st, 2nd=2nd, 2nd'=3rd, 3rd=4th, 4th=5th, 5th=6th. Ratios would be the same since software will not create new ratios. For towing the six speed option would be the best for me. For the SunCoast converter the best would be a combination of the Dodge Cummins and the Ram 1500 in their test truck.

I know nothing about what GDE is developing, but I suspect they will either have a version that is friendly to the original stock converter or tuned to the J8/Euro. Not that they would value or care about my opinion, but having a version for the J8/Euro Converter with their hot tune would be the smartest marketing move. But like Sargent Schultz on Hogan's Heros said, "I know nothing".

I suspect the Guru located some where in Michigan that can crack the Wretched F-37 will share his/her results with the companies that will develop the new TCM tunes. For me a SunCoast owner, I want Ron Wolverton's expertise loaded into the code to make my little road tractor haul better, and make the full use of all of the unique SunCoast converter characteristics.
Other TCM programmers will want to either make use of what should have been the stock converter the J8/Euro, and others the Hemi Converter. Since each Torque Converter option is different it will require different programming, shift timing, and torque converter lock up sequence will all need to work together for the optimum performance.
The best move now, is for all of us is to communicate with our respective TCM tune developers who will develop the tune for our respective converters. We all need to let them know what we want so the best code can be written for our configuration. One of us will come up with a point that otherwise would be overlooked.
Then, Chrysler will find out what the customer wants and set their plans accordingly for future production, why spend company money when some Gear Heads are doing the hard work.
As stated in a previous post, the communication protocols of our TCM may not be the same as the new stuff, but the shifting/lock up sequences are tied to the laws of physics and how they apply to our respective converters.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:21 pm

Well said. You've got me interested. I'll take GDE's expertise with our specific platform any day, but it is unarguable that Suncoast KNOWS diesel automatic transmission applications.

And Mr. Mopar, all respect to your knowledge, but you, in this case, are a definite party pooper. Meh. I will now go have nightmares of trying to get the ECU and TCM to talk to each other, all while standing in a crowded conference hall while naked and wearing a stovepipe hat. I will wake up in a cold sweat shouting "NOOOOO! You'll never make me go to Cleveland!!!"

Alternative to Euro/Suncoast TC's?

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