Injector Toast

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Ok as you probably saw in my other post my CRD is at a dealer, after shooting diesel out the side of its injector. Though oddly the vehicle runs fantastic.

Given they are quoting $3000 for two injectors, and cant have them to Tuesday at the earliest I am thinking of crying BS on them. Paying them for their diagnostic and ordering them from Oregon Fuel Injection (Rebuilt at $370 each) http://www.o-f-i.com/index.php?pid=56 or new fropm Morrison Offroad which has them new.

Work up my courage on changing this, for the money I can spring for the specialty tool. I am fairly well versed in mechanical arts, have rebuilt one engine but for some reason I am shying away from starting to replace parts.

Dont begrudge the dealership from making a $$ but this is ridiculous they cant deliver product and best they can do is "split" the rentacar with me.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:33 pm

Do it yourself JimBob.... We have full confidence in you.

I question how your injectors got trashed... was it water?

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Thats the thing, its blowing diesel out of the side of the injector Housing and leaving a pool of diesel on the manifold.

Vehicle runs awesome (drove it back from PA the day before at 90 MPH plus), filter is clean, no water signal, no excessive biodiesel use (B5 max). Doesnt make any sense at all. Only code is a glowplug.

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:00 pm

Did you try calling VM Motori in Michigan?

VM North America

VM North America established in 2004 to support US customers on site.

Facilities: Offices, Pilot Shop, Warehouse
Location: 1067, Centre Drive Auburn Hills Detroit, Michigan 48326

Contact: Diana Dupuie eMail:ddupuie@vm-na.com Phone: +1 248.6482460

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

I might, but I think I have found the parts. It looks like an easy enough swap with the puller.

Dealer has been polite and i understand they are expensive parts but when I can get them faster than they can............................

Whats the worst that could go wrong pulling it myself? .

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Does anyone have the procedure for this, also I am looking for the part number for the injector "back line"

salden77 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:42 pm **Posts:** 271

3,000 dollars thats insane :ROTFL:

is that including labor?

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:48 am

How much will it cost if you do that job yourself?

Post some picks.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:59 am

With the pressure that these systems run at, if there was a weakness in the injector I can completely see how they would split and spray a fine mist of diesel while still allowing the engine to run perfectly. Had a similar problem on my 01 TDI, one of the high pressure injector lines snapped right at the pump. Engine still ran great, but I was only getting 12mpg where I had been getting 40 before. Oh yea... It was also washing off the entire front of the motor the whole time.

You can do it yourself, do you have a copy of the factory service manual as a PDF?

fastRob · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:03 am

There has got to be a local diesel guy. But more likely do it yourself.
The down loadable manual is here somewhere.
$3,000 is crazy money, just think what you and the old lady could do with that on a weekend.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:51 pm

Chip tunes that remap the ECM to get more power have much fewer problems than tuner boxes that jack up rail pressure and boost pressure. Forums for other Common Rail Engines are full of cases of trashed injectors due to tuning boxes.
Common Rail components and the injectors have had a few design problems, but jacking up the rail pressure to high brings the flaws to light sooner.

Clean up all the injectors, injector lines, top of the engine, and the rail, then dry with compressed air. Use a good quality wrench to loosen the line nuts between the injectors and the rail. Genitally work the injectors out of the head, you may need to use some thing like PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench or to free up the rust if any. If you use PB Blaster Liquid Wrench clean up any excess so it does not flush crap into the engine. Make sure the sealing washer comes out, if not get it out and clean the bore before you install the reman injector and seal. Install the injector and torque the retainer bolt or nut. Clean up the line and line nuts and screw then onto the injector and rail by hand, make sure they seat by hand before tightening up the nuts. Start the engine and with safety glasses on look for leaks at a safe distance. DO NOT FEEL for LEAKS!!! Even the OLD 1920's diesel engines will inject the fuel into your hand/body.
If you have a leak, loosen the nut and retorque the nut.

Good luck.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

warp2diesel wrote:

Chip tunes that remap the ECM to get more power have much fewer problems than tuner boxes that jack up rail pressure and boost pressure. Forums for other Common Rail Engines are full of cases of trashed injectors due to tuning boxes.
Common Rail components and the injectors have had a few design problems, but jacking up the rail pressure to high brings the flaws to light sooner.

Clean up all the injectors, injector lines, top of the engine, and the rail, then dry with compressed air. Use a good quality wrench to loosen the line nuts between the injectors and the rail. Genitally work the injectors out of the head, you may need to use some thing like PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench or to free up the rust if any. If you use PB Blaster Liquid Wrench clean up any excess so it does not flush crap into the engine. Make sure the sealing washer comes out, if not get it out and clean the bore before you install the reman injector and seal. Install the injector and torque the retainer bolt or nut. Clean up the line and line nuts and screw then onto the injector and rail by hand, make sure they seat by hand before tightening up the nuts. Start the engine and with safety glasses on look for leaks at a safe distance. DO NOT FEEL for LEAKS!!! Even the OLD 1920's diesel engines will inject the fuel into your hand/body.
If you have a leak, loosen the nut and retorque the nut.

Good luck.

Ya I am bringing it home, top of the engine is clean and I am going to order two remanufacturered injectors to have handy (Or GreenJeep has offered to sell me some used ones at a kind price). My gut is just sending me a lot of bad signals.

1. Find it hard to believe two injectors are toast (and I never really closely checked the fittings to ensure they are tight and havent vibrated off), of course you are going to get flow errors on the others if the pressure is dropping due to a major fuel leak.
2. Prices are exhobinant and wait time unacceptable. 2days or 5 it doesnt matter for me as at that point I have to borrow a extra car froma family member in an adjacent state.
3. Its not that hard of a job

Thanks for the safety tip on the pressure. Hopefully the stealer wont gouge me to much for putting it back together and taking it home. Thinking of driving it, as it runs great. Note I never chipped this engine.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Well I got it home, paid the dealer their $200 for the diagnostic leak seems to be worse since they reassembled it causing a slight miss at RPMs and kicks in limp. But no flashing CEL. This thing is loosing more diesel than I thought could come out of an injector.

Ordering parts and the puller so I can begin tearing it apart.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:59 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

......Genitally work the injectors out of the head......

Sounds like something out of a porn movie :-)r

My genitals won't be going anywhere near the injectors!

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Funny........

This should be to bad, as long as she comes back to life Ill be happy.

Getting an Eco-Tune ECM after this, but want to get it up and running on the stock programming so I can use my learning diesel ear to detect any misses etc.

europachris · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:29 pm

From my recollection of pulling #4 to fix a leaky copper sealing washer, there is a fitting screwed into the injector with a seal washer under it and then the fuel line screws onto the fitting with the flare nut. It would be very easy to either have that fitting loose or be missing the washer that's supposed to be under it - the result will be lots of fuel drooling out. Been there, done that.

Aside from that, they aren't difficult to remove unless (like my case) the sealing washer has been bad for a LONG time and totally impacted the injector in the head with caked soot and CCV oil drool which runs right down into the injector hole. I made up the "special tool" from scrap steel - worked well enough to extract the injector before I resorted to a can of gas and a match and burned the P.O.S. in my driveway with marshmallows on the side.

Take care when installing the injectors to verify the orange o-rings are in place and lube them up a little so they don't roll out of the groove.

Also, when tightening the hold down clamp, make sure you have the injector as 'vertical' as you can get it. There's some slop in the bore so it is easy to get the injector tilted to one side which would cause an uneven seal on the copper washer and result in a leak down the road.

Chris

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

THX from what I can tell its not the fitting but the injector body. Tons of fuel drool (and I mean tons) One thing it has cleaned the top of the engine shiny.........not sure thats a good thing.

Get this put together and I am going to order a GDE kit (either flash or ECM)

europachris · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:22 pm

It might be where the injector threads together, too. There are plenty of tempting spots on the injector that some yahoo might put a big-azz wrench on in attempt of removing it, only to either wreck it or simply just loosen the joint so it leaks.

I'd be pretty surprised if an injector just "split" open and started leaking without any other sort of trauma or improper wrenching.

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Got the injector replaced but cant seem to get it to seat, still is venting diesel vapor and compression around the injector.................(white) no sign of any black soot.

Any advice, plus I cant get the puller to work on injector 4, the old one popped right out, but the new one I can get back out to make an attempt at a reseat and the miller tool is to big to fit.

europachris · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:15 pm

1) Is the old copper washer still in the engine?
2) Do you have a new copper washer on the new injector?
3) Do you have the orange O-ring around the injector? Lightly lube it so the injector goes in easily without rolling the o-ring out of the groove.

Injector Toast

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