Poison Spyder Customs Reject Ring - Advise?

Guest · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:32 pm

So, the last 24 hours of my life has been about this last upgrade, the easiest of all, simple install. Just 10 bolts right???

Notice the one missing? The holes are mis-aligned from the producer. Several bolts would not seat all the way down, notice the leaking now? Could not see the misaligned holes from a low angle. One of the bolts got crooked and cross threaded due to a misaligned hole. Tried to back it out, head popped off. Tried vice grips, channel lock pliers, even pipe wrenches and the headless bolt would not budge. Started to drill it out, drill bit broke in the bolt shaft. Used dremel tool to cut around the broken bit, got the bit out. Drilled with a larger bit, made it all the way through! One size larger and I'll get the bolt shaft to fragment and save the day. Larger bit in and through, breaks, now permanently in. High strenght bit, can't drill through it with another bit.

Stuck, stuck, stuck. I need professional advise on how to get this out, or what kind of shop to take it to and what procedure to tell them to get it out. Will I end up with a larger bolt if a shop has to muscle it out? If so, the replacement rock ring (see notes below) will never fit.

Poison Spyder admitted they have had some precision problems with the Rock Rings. Nice, now that my rear diff housing is hosed. They are shipping me a new Rock Ring, too bad I can't install it now.

Pick me up guys and gals, because I'm beat down and defeated.

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:14 pm

Quote:

Poison Spyder admitted they have had some precision problems with the Rock Rings.

Some?! I bought one but haven't installed it yet. How do I tell if it's misaligned before I install it?

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:16 pm

Dude! I'm so sorry! I hate that feeling when something goes wrong that you cant fix. I really have no idea how you could get that drill bit out. Thats a rough situation you've got here.

Bakerkj · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:25 pm

Sorry to hear you feel beat down and defeated. Hang in there. At least you can still drive it and you still have all your fingers.

I could write a book of crap like this that happens to me. I'm usually stuck without a car and have clients to pickup the next morning.

I had a hard time getting mine to line up too.
The last bolt seemed to be off enough that I couldn't get the bolt in straight or I would get it in but the head wouldn't line up with the recessed hole. After 2 hours of slowly lining it up and tightening each bolt one at a time to keep it straight, I was able to get it together. I may never change my diff fluid again.

chemguy · **Posted:** Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:40 pm

A counter sink is one of those must haves for every tool box. Go to a hardware store and pick one up. It will make backing whats left of that bolt out much easier.

kickit_in4wheel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:32 am

Can you please tell me in a PM where you ordered the rockring from? I have been wanting to get one, and now I am concerned about the quality of the one I will receive.

Rick

DaveKJ02 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:56 am

So you cross threaded a bolt to the point you couldnt back it out without snapping the bolt and now have a drill bit stuck in there? Try an extractor directly on the drill bit. If that doesnt work, try to drill a small hole into the drill bit, put a tap bit into that hole and try pulling the bit out. You're going to need a good cobolt or titanium HSS bit with a high speed drill to get into the stuck bit-no cheesy cordless drill. Taking the diff cover off and soaking the bit with penetrating oil might help things too.

Once you have the bit out, get a timesert or helicoil and tap out some new threads to fix the hole. Oh yeah- and have the KJ jacked by the body so the diff is dropped and you have plenty of room to work and know you are perpendicular to the hole.

No offense but I wouldnt try changing your own spark plugs. Good luck! :wink:

Heather · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:51 am

alljeep wrote:

So, the last 24 hours of my life has been about this last upgrade, the easiest of all, simple install. Just 10 bolts right???

Notice the one missing? The holes are mis-aligned from the producer. Several bolts would not seat all the way down, notice the leaking now? Could not see the misaligned holes from a low angle. One of the bolts got crooked and cross threaded due to a misaligned hole. Tried to back it out, head popped off. Tried vice grips, channel lock pliers, even pipe wrenches and the headless bolt would not budge. Started to drill it out, drill bit broke in the bolt shaft. Used dremel tool to cut around the broken bit, got the bit out. Drilled with a larger bit, made it all the way through! One size larger and I'll get the bolt shaft to fragment and save the day. Larger bit in and through, breaks, now permanently in. High strenght bit, can't drill through it with another bit.

Stuck, stuck, stuck. I need professional advise on how to get this out, or what kind of shop to take it to and what procedure to tell them to get it out. Will I end up with a larger bolt if a shop has to muscle it out? If so, the replacement rock ring (see notes below) will never fit.

Poison Spyder admitted they have had some precision problems with the Rock Rings. Nice, now that my rear diff housing is hosed. They are shipping me a new Rock Ring, too bad I can't install it now.

Pick me up guys and gals, because I'm beat down and defeated.

When we install a rock ring on any Jeep, we first run a drill bit through all the holes. Powder Coating will build up in the holes causing fit issues like you are having...... If you remove the cover, that bolt should be sticking out far enough to grab with a vise grip. If not, drill it out and start over. Your ring is probably fine, once you open the holes and free them of the powder coating.

The other issue, is ****if**** the diff cover is off a little when it's sealed on, the ring may not center in the holes. In your case, I would remove the cover, and clean well, then reseal and install the ring, with cleaned out holes.

Guest · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:12 am

DaveKJ02 wrote:

:shock: So you cross threaded a bolt to the point you couldnt back it out without snapping the bolt and now have a drill bit stuck in there? Try an extractor directly on the drill bit. If that doesnt work, try to drill a small hole into the drill bit, put a tap bit into that hole and try pulling the bit out. You're going to need a good cobolt or titanium HSS bit with a high speed drill to get into the stuck bit-no cheesy cordless drill. Taking the diff cover off and soaking the bit with penetrating oil might help things too.

Once you have the bit out, get a timesert or helicoil and tap out some new threads to fix the hole. Oh yeah- and have the KJ jacked by the body so the diff is dropped and you have plenty of room to work and know you are perpendicular to the hole.

No offense but I wouldnt try changing your own spark plugs. Good luck! :wink:

The bolt seemed to go in easy enough until a point. When I reached that point I figured it was just a little RTV sealent stuck in there from the factory so I gave it one more good turn and decided to back it out. Then snap.

Pretty awesome huh? I can get all 34 bolts on the Boulder Bars drilled and installed correctly. I can remove the entire front end off and get the front mount hitch drilled and installed, but I've been defeated by one bolt. must be Karma or something...

It's a good thing I don't have spark plugs to change.

Thanks, everyone, for all the advise. Looks like I still have an option so I'll look into a titanium HSS or cobalt bit and go from there. I spray painted the wound black so I wouldn't have to see it while I make my next plan of attack.

As for the Rock Ring itself - I was able to inspect the alignment now that the bolt head is gone. It was off by at least a half a bolt in diameter - more than just powder coating - definitely an out of spec. product.

Straight6Jeff · **Posted:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:56 am

The broken drill bit is not too much of an issue. If you can, take off the cover and try to get ahold of the bit that way. Of not, take it to a welding shop, remove the ring and cover and have them weld something ont the broken drill bit to try to extract. I have broken many taps and bits in holes. The welding route almost always gets them out. Teh welding shop should have heli-coils also.

To ensure your rock ring fits, before installing it to the vehicle, line it up with the cover (on the work bench) and put all of the bolts in the holes at the same time. If any of thge bots goes in tight, ream the holes in the ring a bit larger. The bolts do not have to be tight going through the holes.

Big BB · **Joined:** Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:37 pm **Posts:** 2

Yeah alljeep that sucks for sure.
I have used the method Straight6Jeff talked about and it has worked twice. I dont know how much room you have or length on the bit but maybe you can do what I did. I drilled a hole in a 1/4 thick 1/2 inch wide and 2 inch long bar. The hole favored one side. I welded this bar to the broken bit with the hole side out. (It looked kind of like one hell of a stick of gum) I sprayed WD-40 on the stuck bit and came back every couple of hours and sprayed it again. I let it sit overnight to let the penetrating fluid do its job overnight. The next day, instead of Vise-Grips I used a pry bar (steel rod) and stuck it through the hole and angled it 45 degrees. I started to tap on the bar (counter clockwise) using a heavy hammer, careful not break the bit. After doing this for about 5 minutes I started to see the bit move. I took out the pry bar and put the Vise-Grips on it and with slow heavy pressure the blasted thing started to come out. Hurray I said. Well, I my mind anyway.
Hope this helps. Maybe you already got it out. What sucks about getting bits out is that you are trying to get something out that has build up a great about of heat and has almost welding itself in place in a since.
And as for the parts, don't ever trust them. I am never afraid to modify a brand new part. Powder coating is one thing but a crapping casting or part fabricating is another. People and manfs. don't care after they have your money.

Brian

05kjrenny · **Posted:** Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:49 pm

i broke a bolt in a head onetime
took air sawzall and cut a slot into top of bolt and used a flat head screwdriver to muscle out
dont know if this helps but maybe plan d?

ManicMechanicJoe · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:35 am

If it was me, I would have a pro weld a bolt on there and try backing it out with a box end wrench (6 point). Use a bernzall torch with propane to heat up the housing (not too much heat or it will expand the bolt and defeat the purpose). Then back it out.

After it is out, I would figure out what size the stock bolts are and get a helicoil for it. Helicoils are simple to use, and very strong. I have used them plenty and they are a mechanic's second best friend (vise grips will always be number one in my books, BFH takes number 3, 5 foot breaker bar is #4).

Like Heather mentioned, run a drill bit the size of the diff cover bolts through the rock ring to get rid of all that powder coat. It is amazing how much that stuff screws up alignment. I had the same problem while installing my lift (Rusty's Spacer, too much powder coat for the studs to fit through the spacer).

speleorelic · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:32 am

You might try a left hand drill bit and a reversing drill. Using high quality bits helps avoid breakage. Once you get a hole in the bolt use an ,, easy-out,, which is also left handed. If you use a heli-coil you have to drill and tap the housing out to a larger 'custom' size so make sure you have anough meat around the hole so you don't break out the housing.

ManicMechanicJoe · **Posted:** Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:11 pm

speleorelic wrote:

You might try a left hand drill bit and a reversing drill. Using high quality bits helps avoid breakage. Once you get a hole in the bolt use an ,, easy-out,, which is also left handed. If you use a heli-coil you have to drill and tap the housing out to a larger 'custom' size so make sure you have anough meat around the hole so you don't break out the housing.

I like this idea...qaulity doesn't matter if the bit isn't sharp...a dull bit is worthless...buy some qaulity bits don't be afraid to invest $200 in drill bits if plan on doing both wood and metal projects...A quality drill WILL be needed. Buy Dewalt or Milwaukee, go for something in the 18 volt neighborhood (I love my 18 volt Milwakee).

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:38 pm

ManicMechanicJoe wrote:

If it was me, I would have a pro weld a bolt on there and try backing it out with a box end wrench (6 point). Use a bernzall torch with propane to heat up the housing (not too much heat or it will expand the bolt and defeat the purpose). Then back it out.

After it is out, I would figure out what size the stock bolts are and get a helicoil for it. Helicoils are simple to use, and very strong. I have used them plenty and they are a mechanic's second best friend (vise grips will always be number one in my books, BFH takes number 3, 5 foot breaker bar is #4).

Like Heather mentioned, run a drill bit the size of the diff cover bolts through the rock ring to get rid of all that powder coat. It is amazing how much that stuff screws up alignment. I had the same problem while installing my lift (Rusty's Spacer, too much powder coat for the studs to fit through the spacer).

Well, it's been along weekend. I've been turned away by 4 "pro" welding shops. I finally went down to Gasoline Alley today near the Indy 500 race track and started talking with race teams. I was referred to a driveline specalist. It's finally out. Turns out I went back into my garage and brought the remaining bits out and noticed they were the titanium bits, so it was a titanuim one broken in the bolt. And it was already at 75% the diameter of the broken bolt, so no room for another bit next to it.

The shop today used high pressure water/fluid drills, drilling, and good old mining one little bit at a time, and got it out - first the bit, then the bolt. Then rethreaded the bolt hole.

All other methods were tried, but this was the last chance.

$291.35 (at least I got the 75W140 synthetic lube)

Ironically, the replacement Rock Ring was on my front door when I got home. Now, I've got about $450 in this cluster **** with nothing to show for it.

DO NOT ORDER A POISON SPYDER ROCK RING IF YOU ARE EXPECTING A PRECISION PRODUCT.

Anyhow, thanks to EVERYONE for all the help. I'm just glad this is over for now. The Rock Ring will make a good paper weight.

jpzkj · **Posted:** Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:03 am

Man...thats a said and expensive tale :roll:

I've installed 3 Poision Spyder rock rings and a Crane cover on different KJ's and only had a problem with the Crane. Sounds like you really got a bad one for sure. Let us know what the replacement's quality is when you get around to looking at it.

What exactly is a water/fluid drill anyway ?

ManicMechanicJoe · **Posted:** Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:30 am

a water drill operates on the same principal as water cutting, lots of pressure. I have never used one, but I have seen a water cutter in action. It's nice because it leaves a perfect edge every time. The edges look better then a laser cutter or plasma cutter...

Eddo · **Joined:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1214

Don't have a problem with my rock ring or one I installed on a friends KJ.

ShadE · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:24 pm

lol. a couple of das ago I replaced my dif fluid. Broke off the last bolt after I had sealed the back it up again. I simply drilled a small hole in the center of the broken bolt, and stuck a torques bit in there (hammered it in with my hand on the drill) and she slowly came out. I had alread read through this thread and was thinking, crap! I'm screwed! lol. glad she's done tho. :lol:

Poison Spyder Customs Reject Ring - Advise?

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