Another blown turbo

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:38 am

After my 05 made a sudden ca-chink sound followed by a bad whining noise that sounded like something broke off the turbo, I started scanning the forum and found this:

jinstall wrote:

Yesterday morning when I got to work i hear this high pitch whine that soundslike the turbo has injested something and broken a small tab off of one of the vains and allows it to whistle a little.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56958

Yep. The turbo is trash-talkin'!

But get this: I have 69,750 miles on my 70,000 mile drivetrain warranty - and the dealer says it's covered! Deeeeaaaaaamn lucky!
In fact, the past few months I've been watching the odometer thinking about the torque converter wondering if might go just after the warranty expires. They replaced it via the recall - but as we all know it's a still a plastic Tonka Toy converter. (I purposely let my wife's 06 converter go until it exploded so we get maximum life out of the free replacement.)

So, the obvious question is: Can I expect my wife's 06 to follow suit next year? The 06s only had a 3 year warranty. (Yes, the oil level was correct on both and I change it far more often than needed.)

We do live at the top of a long hill (gains 1,500') & I've read about letting the thing cool down for 5 minutes before shutting it off - but that would be utterly ridiculous to do on a daily basis. Between the two of us there are an average of 6 hill climbs per day. That's 6x5 = 30 idle minutes per day or 182 hours per year sitting in the rain outside the garage waiting & waiting & waiting with kids, groceries etc.. It's just silly. IF this really is the culprit, isn't there any aftermarket products that could keep that thing cool? Or perhaps a high volume fan I could switch on coming up the hill? I also read there may be a "stronger" turbo out there. Is this a problem due to a "weak" turbo or an improperly cooled or improperly cooled turbo. (Are perhaps those are synonymous.)

The service manager at the stealer insisted this was only the second one he's seen. Of course, they only sold 25K of them in the entire U.S. so I didn't find his comments particularly reassuring.

- Chris

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:48 am

I had 99k on mine when I sold it and factory turbo (as far as I know anyway). It was an 05 for reference. Just curious, do you have the GDE tune yet or have you been running with the MAF disconnected to prevent EGR from dumping soot back into the intake?

I think either of these could possibly help turbo life...just a hunch, but the soot and CCV oil could possibly collect on the turbo veins, cause a balance issue, and potentially cause bearing failure and then the fins could hit the housing and break.

Just a thought, no real evidence to back this up at all. lol

- Mark

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:01 am

You mean the SEGR kit? If so, no. I still have it as a kit form. (Am thinking of forking over the $ to have it assembled.) But yes, I do have the MAF pulled in both cars.

The imbalance idea actually sounds plausible to me based upon the noise I heard. It definitely sounded like something broke off. And the funny thing is that the car ran fine. No lack of power, no rough idle - but a bad racket coming from the turbo at certain rpms.

As in the other thread, I too am concerned about whether or not something could have gotten sucked into the motor during this

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:52 am

Well, I was talking about soot (egr lets this in the intake pre-turbo...with the MAF disconnect it disables the EGR and prevents soot), but the segr kit prevent oil vapor from building up and keeps it from going in pre-turbo also. Both help...its the mixing of the 2 that gums and sticks to things.

So probably not soot/oil mix buildup causing the turbo failure...was just curious.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

KeighJeigh wrote:

It's just silly. IF this really is the culprit, isn't there any aftermarket products that could keep that thing cool?
- Chris

Maybe look into one of those "turbo timers" that keep the motor running for a bit until the turbo oil can cool off. Some of them even calcualte the time needed based on temps/load, but I have no experience with them.

I'm beginning to see why my recently purchased CRD was sold with 69,500 miles on it! I think the PO was nervous that after the warranty ended he woud have a problem. I'm up to 73,000 now... :shock:

litton · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:29 am

You might want to look into the GDE turbe kit. At long as one has to spend $$$$, might as well make it performance $$$. I have no idea what the cost differance is but still something to consider.

If only the GDE was a plug and play instead of having to make mods it would be a much easier decision.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:37 pm

Also, check the shaft play on your wife's turbo right before the warranty runs out and have it replaced under warranty if it is out of spec...then you will get annother good ammount of mileage before annother issue I would hope.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:42 pm

"Of course, they only sold 25K of them in the entire U.S. so I didn't find his comments particularly reassuring."

Just a FYI the number of 05 and 06 CRD's produced for the North American market, that includes Canada, was around 14,000 :jester:

The total number produced was a going thread back in mid 2006 :JEEPIN:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:01 pm

If you put in a new turbo - make sure you tap the exhaust for an Exhaust Gas Temp gauge.
That's what will tell you if you have a turbo cooldown issue and/or need a cooldown timer.

(I doubt it - but it's guessing without the numbers)

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:41 am

ATXKJ wrote:

If you put in a new turbo - make sure you tap the exhaust for an Exhaust Gas Temp gauge.
That's what will tell you if you have a turbo cooldown issue and/or need a cooldown timer.

(I doubt it - but it's guessing without the numbers)

Good suggestion.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:49 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Also, check the shaft play on your wife's turbo right before the warranty runs out and have it replaced under warranty if it is out of spec...then you will get annother good ammount of mileage before annother issue I would hope.

I wish I could!
Unfortunately, she has the 2006 which only came with a 36,000 mi warranty while my 2005 has a 70,000 mile powertrain warranty. Mine squeaked by on the warranty. If it had blown a few days later, I would have been on the hook for the full price. As it is, I'm paying a $100 deductible. If hers goes out, I'm out of luck.
That's why I'm trying to determine if this really is an issue that I can easily control, or if there are just some defective turbos out there.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:54 am

Joe Romas wrote:

"Of course, they only sold 25K of them in the entire U.S. so I didn't find his comments particularly reassuring."
Just a FYI the number of 05 and 06 CRD's produced for the North American market, that includes Canada, was around 14,000 :jester:

The total number produced was a going thread back in mid 2006 :JEEPIN:

Really!? Well that makes me feel even more special owning two of these beasties. Heck, it means I personally own 0.00014% of the whole market!

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:58 am

litton wrote:

You might want to look into the GDE turbe kit. At long as one has to spend $$$$, might as well make it performance $$$. I have no idea what the cost differance is but still something to consider.

If only the GDE was a plug and play instead of having to make mods it would be a much easier decision.

I don't have to pay for this particular repair because I was (barely) in the warranty period.. . . . . but my wife's car I do worry about. If hers goes out, I'll be stuck with the whole bill and likely do all the work myself . . . . which is when I would start adding in performance options.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:03 am

KeighJeigh wrote:

litton wrote:

You might want to look into the GDE turbe kit. At long as one has to spend $$$$, might as well make it performance $$$. I have no idea what the cost differance is but still something to consider.

If only the GDE was a plug and play instead of having to make mods it would be a much easier decision.

I don't have to pay for this particular repair because I was (barely) in the warranty period.. . . . . but my wife's car I do worry about. If hers goes out, I'll be stuck with the whole bill and likely do all the work myself . . . . which is when I would start adding in performance options.

Sounds like GDE turbo time if that one fails then.

Roostre · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:57 pm **Posts:** 195

Anyone else wondering if the root cause of the turbo failures we are seeing is possibly due to the oil spec mix-up?

It seems reasonable that oils not designed for turbo duty would 'coke' the bearings due to being less tolerant of high heat at the turbo, thus causing this rash of turbo problems??

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:50 am

Roostre wrote:

Anyone else wondering if the root cause of the turbo failures we are seeing is possibly due to the oil spec mix-up?

It seems reasonable that oils not designed for turbo duty would 'coke' the bearings due to being less tolerant of high heat at the turbo, thus causing this rash of turbo problems??

Yes we need to use the proper oil for our turbo charged diesel engines. But you also need to heed the cool down times for the turbo. If you take the number of hours calculated above for cool down and compare that to the cost of a turbo replacement then you can make the decision to follow the procedure or not.

Two turbo failures come to mind. Jimstall's, I'm willing to bet his had the correct oil. But his normal driving in Germany was much faster then in the US if I understand correctly.
The first was Gordie's and standing back taking a look at what happened there's two things that stand out to me. One he's not sure what oil and how long it was in there if I understand correctly. Second the temperature was very cold and the engine/turbo was not given much time to warm up driving gently. So the oil pressure from the thick oil was at the extreme max and his turbo seal blew.

Hind sight being 20/20 both the above where total engine failure occured might have been preventable if caught in time.

My :2cents:

onthehunt · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:04 pm

I think it is directly related to the ccv system.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:18 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Roostre wrote:

Anyone else wondering if the root cause of the turbo failures we are seeing is possibly due to the oil spec mix-up?

It seems reasonable that oils not designed for turbo duty would 'coke' the bearings due to being less tolerant of high heat at the turbo, thus causing this rash of turbo problems??

Yes we need to use the proper oil for our turbo charged diesel engines. But you also need to heed the cool down times for the turbo. If you take the number of hours calculated above for cool down and compare that to the cost of a turbo replacement then you can make the decision to follow the procedure or not.

Two turbo failures come to mind. Jimstall's, I'm willing to bet his had the correct oil. But his normal driving in Germany was much faster then in the US if I understand correctly.
The first was Gordie's and standing back taking a look at what happened there's two things that stand out to me. One he's not sure what oil and how long it was in there if I understand correctly. Second the temperature was very cold and the engine/turbo was not given much time to warm up driving gently. So the oil pressure from the thick oil was at the extreme max and his turbo seal blew.

Hind sight being 20/20 both the above where total engine failure occured might have been preventable if caught in time.

My :2cents:

I'm running Mobile 1 synthetic and change the oil every year on both - just because.
I live at the top of a long hill in Washington State - but most of the elevation gain is at 35 mph and the last mile up the drive is at 15 mph - but is steep. I wonder if the turbo is spooling up very high at those speeds or getting particularly hot?

As far as letting it idle, I've read contradictory reports regarding the effect on overall engine health - a damnd if you do damnd if you don't scenario. If I don't let it sit & idle, I could ruin the turbo, if I do, I could ruin the top end:
http://www.greendieselengineering.com/forum/posts/list/111.page

Nonetheless, I would really like some hard evidence that I need to let it sit there for 5 minutes and if so, if there is a poor man's way to accomplish cooling without this. (Perhaps by engaging a fan on the way up the driveway? Other?)

With the weather we experience up here on the mountain, as well as the plethora of hills all around us, as well as always being in a hurry with two small children in tow, I honestly have trouble envisioning the logistics of it: Sitting in the driveway or a parking lot with the car idling. Our garage is very small so idling a diesel inside the garage - even with the door open - is a very bad thing.

Do others in this forum actually sit in their cars reading a book or whatever waiting for their CRDs turbo to cool enough to shut them off?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:28 pm

What flavor of Mobil1? The Turbo diesel truck flavor I hope

While on trips with our trailer I've almost wet my pants at rest stops allowing the turbo to cool down :ROTFL:

But for my average driving the last 2 miles are at 25 mph. This is my 5th turbo diesel and I've not had a turbo failure yet. Before retirement I used to do a lot of driving but my 06 just turned 39k yesterday :roll:

reka12 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:59 pm

Did I read you change the oil once/year? How many miles?

I let mine cool and it is not as hard as it appears. For instance, leaving the highway to a rest stop will take a minute or two of ideling speeds to get a spot and park. It is not hard to wait the additional minute or two.

Another blown turbo

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