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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:24 pm 
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I've been sending e-mails and writing Jeep/Chrysler for couple of years about offering a diesel option on the Wrangler model. Only response has been, thank you for your concern and input but at this time we have not pursued that as an option. I love the 4 dr. Wrangler and living in the AZ. desert can make good use of one, but I don't care for the V-6 gas engine they have in them. I prefer and diesel in the Wrangler, but would probably buy one if they offered the Pentastar V-6 option in them. Pentastar engine seems to be a real good engine and would really make a difference in Wranglers performance both off and on road uses. Jeep division of Chrysler needs to wake up. Like me there is a very large loyal group of Jeep owners in the market, but seems the propeller heads in any big company, don't seem to recognize the consumers opinion. With all their hi-fi business degrees and such, they don't need input from us pee-ons.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:00 pm 
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I just read a rticle in Automotive weekly December 20th issue titled
"In Toledo, an Italian whirlwind brings the Fiat Gospel"
His name is Mauro Pino and was appointed by Sergio Marchionne and is in charge of both plants instead of a manager for each. He left Fiat in 2001 for Eaton working in several countries then in 2007 Sergio promised him the Fiat he left is much different then the Fiat he would return too.

He spends an average of two hours a day on the plant floor and has the respect of the uaw. The UAW workers had a charity drive on 9/11 for the firemen and Mauro rented a hog and in the rain he and his son were riding in the parade with the workers. He's 50 years old, married with 2 sons and owns several cycles including a Ducati, BMW and Moto Guzzi. the union bnoss says "he has a polite way of kicking your a@@". They are cutting cost by working smart. One example waw instead of a worker walking to a shelf to get interior trim parts they are now in a box inside the jeep avoiding the need to get the parts off a shelf. Another one was by getting a better fit on body panels allowed then to adjust the welders so they produce zero slag that previously took 277 hours a month to clean up.

The program is called WCM (I don't know what that stands for) and was copied from Toyoto.

I know this has nothing to do with diesels but if they can make jeeps better and cheaper then maybe they'll have time to think about diesels in the US.
By the way for those who don't know it the Mahindra got the EPA's approval to sell them here.

I would like to see a REAL VW van, not a rebadged Chrysler, made in their new Tennessee facitlity with a TDI so I could replace my aging 93 made in 1992 Eurovan. I would have no trouble convincing the wife to get one of those. It's taken her 2 years to get used to her 2000 Cherokee and she would jump at a real VW TDI powered van. Not a soccer mom's mall van but a "Transporter" version like her EV. :2cents:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:23 pm 
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The number one factor killing the small diesel market is maintenance cost, if Mahindra bring the service and parts available for a reasonable cost they gone make a big hit! Reliability is the other major factor.... Fiat got the new MultiAir technology under test in multiple cars and trucks in Europe, maybe they decide to use a Jeep as a "Mule" but I doubt we see a diesel Wrangler in America next year except if the price of gas goes over $5 /gallon in a near future.

The best player on the small Diesel engine table we got is VW, I will not be surprise if they produce a diesel version of the 'Tiguan' and the 'Routan' for the American market sooner or later. Who have predicted company like Suzuki and Honda will produce new Pickup truck? Imagine if VW decide to produce a half ton one with a diesel engine! They got the technology and the engineering to produce a best seller, now they need public interest for this product...Petrol price is the key.

PS: I bet CARB will get a big kick in the n...If the gas price get over $6/g

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:39 pm 
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[quote][The number one factor killing the small diesel market is maintenance cost,/quote]

Wrong. Number one is the EPA/CARB. It takes too much $ to make them emissions compliant and the market is too small. Diesel's future in the US is dying one law at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:11 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
[The number one factor killing the small diesel market is maintenance cost,/quote]

Wrong. Number one is the EPA/CARB. It takes too much $ to make them emissions compliant and the market is too small. Diesel's future in the US is dying one law at a time.


I agree ! Maintenance cost is number 2 then! :wink: Sorry to have been to much polite with this bunch of stupid....

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:43 pm 
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Just before Christmas, the EPA announced that they plan to set greenhouse gas emissions standards for power plants and oil refineries. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying the EPA is alive and well in this reckless economy. :dizzy:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:30 pm 
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Not really tinfoil material when two states outright ban the sale of small diesels! (CA and MA)

There are a few who believe that diesel soot is causing cancer rates to go up and they have some 'well written' papers to prove it; these have held sway in the bluer states and put pressure on the EPA to rein in these devilish vehicular spreaders of disease.

Google it and you can see where this stuff is coming from.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:47 am 
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Well first of all if diesel is causing cancer then why 40 or 50 years wasn't there alot more of it. I mean all the trains and large trucks that ran it were basicaly shoving tons of it into our atmosphere. Also VW has a truck concept it is called the Amarok and is testing with one of thier TDI motors (overseas of course :cry: ).

Image

It looks really nice and with VW build quality i would buy one in a heart beat. But this is what kills me everyone talks about MPGs what SUV that is the same size as our liberties gets as good of a MPG. I mean some Jettas with the TDI motor have seen as high as 80 mpg and that doesn't alter much when at say highway speed where the hybrids fall out. Like the TopGear test of the Prius against the V-8 M3 at 68 to 84 the M3 got +3mpgs over the Prius (21 vs 18).

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Pippobug wrote:
dieselenthusiast wrote:
MrMopar64 wrote:
This is a long-standing rumor, I do believe. No one is using Siemens fuel injection components in this sandbox...
The Jeeps that have always been powered by VM still are, no worries.


I knew I could depend on you to find this thread. :mrgreen: Either way, it sounds like someone is testing a diesel for the U.S. 2012 Wrangler. I found this quote, "Fiat diesels will eventually power some Chrysler vehicles (possibly including Jeeps currently VM-powered), in export markets; however VM Motori continues to hold sway."


If I am not wrong Fiat has bought a stake hold in Chrysler, therefore that could well happen. But Fiat 2.5L up Turbo Diesel engines are in the main ex IVECO diesel, so to a certain extent more relaible than VM motori, but VM are more powerful and smouther. If we end up with Fiat engines they will be IVECO for sure and should be nice and solid with less head gaskets bolwing like the old VM :wink: .



Indeed , IVECO engines are well known here in Europe for being very very reliable and they do perform huge mileage....


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:41 pm 
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audiboy86 wrote:
........and with VW build quality..........


With VW build quality I would shy away.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Sir Sam wrote:
audiboy86 wrote:
........and with VW build quality..........


With VW build quality I would shy away.


Never would have thought that VW would have a bad rep.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:06 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
audiboy86 wrote:
........and with VW build quality..........


With VW build quality I would shy away.


Never would have thought that VW would have a bad rep.


LOL I know right? What with all the class action lawsuits and all......

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:30 pm 
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audiboy86 wrote:
Well first of all if diesel is causing cancer then why 40 or 50 years wasn't there alot more of it. I mean all the trains and large trucks that ran it were basicaly shoving tons of it into our atmosphere.


POLITICAL AGENDA is the reason behind the cancer claims not reality

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:59 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:
audiboy86 wrote:
........and with VW build quality..........


With VW build quality I would shy away.


Never would have thought that VW would have a bad rep.





VW is funny; some parts are overbuilt and others...not so much. (Electrical systems are their biggest weakness...)

I would certainly take a look at that truck, if nothing else maybe it would spur some dedicated truck manufacturers to offer a small diesel option. :BANANA:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Roostre wrote:
racertracer wrote:
Sir Sam wrote:

With VW build quality I would shy away.


Never would have thought that VW would have a bad rep.





VW is funny; some parts are overbuilt and others...not so much. (Electrical systems are their biggest weakness...)

I would certainly take a look at that truck, if nothing else maybe it would spur some dedicated truck manufacturers to offer a small diesel option. :BANANA:


Electrical systems are VW's achilles heel. They should really get some chinese auto makers to do all their electrical work because they sure as hell can't.

Anything electrical can and will fail on a VW. It's not a question of if, its not a question of when, its a question of how many times it will fail before you give up out of frustration and either live with it (if the vehicle is still drivable, or sell it(if it still has any value)).

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:24 am 
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Sam.

You've hit a nerve :shock:

I've owned only 5 jeeps but the number of VW's is about 20.
My current perfect condition 2000 XJ has the best build quality of the 4 XJ's I've owned but it looks like every body panel has been replaced in some guy's garage and the other 3 XJ's were about the same.

I read that Magna (sp?) actualy assembled the Liberty bodies for Chrysler in the Chrysler plant. Maybe that's why things fit better on my CRD.

Back to VW's. Even the 78 Rabbit had better fit and finish then the XJ's and that ain't saying much. But from about 85 and on VW got their act together :BANANA: I was given, bought wrecked or very high mileage 85-91 Golfs and Jetta's with diesel engines and only had one electrical problem. A 85 Golf blinked the glow plug light indicating water in fuel. But the 85 didn't have that feature. I replaced a three foot section of a wire in a harness to fix it. That golf had 225k when I bought it :ROTFL: I sold a 91 EcoDiesel jetta to a friend who drove it to 457k miles in 2002 and the head was never off :dizzy: He sold it for $2000 to a guy who drove 150 miles to buy it.

In 1996 I bought one of the first Passat TDI's in the states. It was at a port in NC bound for Florida. I will not go into the long jurney VW put it through to get to Central Ohio :5SHOTS: Boy are they messed up in some respects :ALONE: I drove that car 107k miles in three years and 2 weeks. It had one problem, the same breather puck we have on our crd's started dumping huge amounts of oil into the intake system, sound familiar?? Next was a 1999.5 Jetta TDI made in Mexico. I was very leary of poor build quality but was pleasently supprised. I even put clear plastic over the paper sticker under the hood were a lady inspector signed her name and it's still there. I had one relay go intermittently bad. Since I bought a early production car and drove a lot of miles mine failed early. It was a cold solder joint in the load reduction relay and it was covered even thought it was out of the 24k warranty but well within the 24k months. I had a good VW dealer :D My son has that Jetta now and has only switches on the door lock problems. That car has been in service for 12 years with nothing other then regular service. I almost forgot the MAF that went bad but that was resolved by a class action suite :BANANA: It's still worth a third of what I bought it for new.
I'm sure if there were more CDR's produced and sold in the US we would have seen class action suits over the CRD's :goink:

I'm still waiting for my 93 EV sitting in my driveway to die :dead: Everything still fits perfectly and yes I've resoldered the instrument panel twice and the rear window defogger currently does not work but nothing else electrical has failed and it has every option but heated seats if they were even available and that includes power windows!!! It lives outside in Ohio and was made in mid 1992 so it's almost 19 years old. Yeah I guess VW does have problems :CAMPING:

If VW would sell a real VW van like the Eurovans, not a rebadged Chrysler, in the US with a TDI I would buy one today.
As a company they are as arrogant as the rest including toyota that has now lost it's crown. VW has a aggressive plan in place to be the worlds's largest car company so keep your eye on them :POPCORN:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Thank you for those corrections because i have owned 2 A4 both 1999.5 i never had any electircal isssues out of either one. And i turned one in to a twin turbo monster with very little stock parts left on it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:52 pm 
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VW had a pick-up... well sort of

http://www.rossvw.com/vw/83pickup.html

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:20 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
VW had a pick-up... well sort of

http://www.rossvw.com/vw/83pickup.html



Since they now have a plant in Tennesse near completion they could assemble the above pickup here and avoid the chicken tax.

Honda is selling a lot of their trucks here so maybe VW will take a hint and give the US a Amarok TDI :BANANA: Their dealers already have TDI experience :jester:

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 Jeep Wrangler Fiat diesel for United States of Amer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:14 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
VW had a pick-up... well sort of

http://www.rossvw.com/vw/83pickup.html


This is the old "Unibody" sport utility trucks (SUT) like the 4WD Subaru brat, They use a Rabbit (MK1)front wheel drive platform. It was a good commuter vehicle. To replace a KJ we need a good "work horse" with the same tow capacity of our diesel KJ, I read a bit about the Amarok with is 1 tons capacity and the advertise 1000Km/80L consommation (2Wheel drive model), I'm a bit septic about is off road possibility with this 4 motion low gear system but on paper and track (Dakkar) I have to admit It's look pretty amazing.I have prefer a 2 doors extra cab model with a 6 ft or 7 ft box to tow a small 2500 pds Fifthwheel like that one...

Image

Time will tell...If they show on north american soil.. :juggle:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/02/volkswagen-amarok-camper-conversion-ready-for-adventure/

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Last edited by OldSkull on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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