My VW TDI cost me about $1,500 more than the gas version with the same bells and whistles. I received $1,300 back on taxes due to the "green vehicle tax credit". Basically the added price for the diesel engine was a wash in the end. I paid $500 below MSRP. Like Keith mentioned a $5,000 up charge for a diesel engine don't sound bad to me.

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05 CRD
97 Toyota FZJ80 12v Cummins/NV4500-build thread
96 Lexus LX 450
96 Ford F350 4x4

A $5000 overcharge for a VM Motori with no support, service or parts in the Noth America? NEVER!

Bring me a small Ford, VW, Cummins, Cat ......diesel engine, I sat there willing to listen to you! Sorry no more B/S allowed until they prove me wrong....

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2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB

Umm --- I pass 8 fuel stations in the 25 miles I drive to work everyday and 5 have diesel...
Umm --- I would happily pay $5K premium for a diesel option especially to get that "seat of the pants" good feeling advantage.
And Umm --- Chrysler msy not support VM motori by not providing techs and dealer support domesticly but raw parts will still be avail thru them due to thier euro VM involvement and I already found an independent trusted euro-motor savy mechanic I can use.

Just saying---


Roland

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2006 CRD LTD 2.8L VM Motori turbo,CAC, 100K-new timing belt
ORM-SEGR, Trans cooler, CLIII hitch front/rear, Journey HD controller
Mopar skids,"Stone Soup" rails, KK clevis fork 1" mild lift w/Daystar stops
215x85 LRD BFG Commercial A/T's, Rola Rack, V6 airbox, Fumoto valve
10K winch, B5 Biodiesel (ULSD CP3 lube)
Its a Diesel baby!

Total cost for ownership is also a lot lower for any diesel, b/c they retain their resale value a LOT better than any gas version.

I got my 2001 Jetta TDI in January of 2003, with 5100 miles on it. No clue why someone would trade it back in. According to the sales droid (as if he would know a darn thing about the car's history) it had been a dealer loaner in South Carolina, but was for sale in South Florida. Yea, right.

Anyway, I bought it for 18k, and drove it for 145k miles. Sold it at 150k miles... For 10k. Supposedly the MSRP was 21k originally, but I paid $8000 for a total cost per mile (above consumables like fuel and maintenance) of 5.5 CENTS per mile. Not bad.

If you consider the Jeep Liberty CRD, I'm not doing so great... But I'm STILL a lot better than the gas version. Here are my numbers on the CRD versus a 3.7 gasser:

Purchase price: 16k, at 33k miles. Original MSRP (google) is $26.8k, ($25.2k for the 3.7) and I'm at 100k miles right now. Assuming I sell it now (not planning to) and get $10k for it... Then I would have spent 6 cents per mile to own it. If the value plummets because of Chrysler's misdeeds, and I only get 8k for it: 8 cents per mile.
If I bought it NEW, and paid full MSRP so that the numbers compare directly: 26.8 cents per mile to 100k miles. If I sell it for $10k, that drops to 16.8 cents per mile for ownership.

What about the gas version? I just did a quick AutoTrader search, and at 100k miles, the value of the 3.7 gasser is DISMAL. $7500 average. So if you bought it new and sold it at 100k... That is gonna cost you 17.7 cents per mile.

The difference over the same 100k miles (if bought new and paying that $1600 up-charge) is a whopping $900. It costs for the vehicle alone, just $900 more for the diesel, because they retain that value over the long term.

What about fuel prices for the same 100k miles? Using the EPA highway numbers for both 2005 models, and average fuel cost of $3 gasoline, $3.20 diesel:
CRD: 28mpg HWY: 3571 gallons, $11427 for fuel. Ouchie.
3.7: 22mpg HWY (HAH, yea right!): 4545 gallons... wait for it... $13635 for fuel!

So in conclusion... $2200 LESS for fuel over a standard ownership term, $2500 MORE in retained value, and merely $900 extra in cost-of-ownership when factored against resale value.

Why wouldn't you want a diesel again? As long as they are SUPPORTED by the manufacturer, that is. That is the real trick with a VW, that we can't have - our manufacturer has killed our value from what it could be even higher, by tossing us to the wind. Thanks Chrysler, I'll be certain to return the favor next time I'm looking for a vehicle. I won't be in yours again.

As for fuel availability... I'm in a city of 131k, and I have NO problem finding diesel. In the Historic District downtown, there are 2 stations next to each other that both carry it. Neither services semi tractor business. On the same street, there are 2 other stations within a mile of the 2 with diesel. Not bad at all. Less than 2 miles from those 4 stations, are 3 more, 2 with diesel, and one commercial fueling station with farm fuel that sells to the public. Finding diesel isn't an issue anymore, so stop trying to scare people TJKJ.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Amen

Diesel every where here and we have a B100/B20/B5 production plant 56Km from my home! I will ride the KJ until he die on me...But getting a half ton diesel pickup can make me change my mind realy fast....

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2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB

Finding diesel has never been and issue for me but everyone seems to be looking over some of the other factors alot of people who have never owned a diesel like to point out. Like the cost of and oil change in a diesel vs. a gas yes we have hugh capacities most of the time but normally can go twice as long without worrying. Also glow plugs yes exspensive and right now a pain but once every 100k ussually or 30k with a spark plug. Also some more food for though the highest mileage gas motor ever record by my current research is 1.1M and i have personally seen 2 diesels in construction trucks (driven by people who didn't care didn't hesitate to take them anywhere or try and tow anything with them) hit 450k and both are still running around town. So the way i see it cost of ownership not really as high as they make it out to be and if treated correctly and with the right support the diesel will always out live a gas motor.

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My CRD Build Thread
Soon to Come:more lights

Geordi,
It makes my head hurt just reading that...novella

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2005 CRD 75,000 miles
Various mods, I just fix it till it breaks.
The rest of the fleet:
85 F250 6.9 Diesel 250,000 miles
82 Mercedes 240D 330,000 miles
81 Mercedes 240D 285,000 miles
My kids think gas is only for lawn equipment!

The cost of making a class 8 diesel emission 2010 compliant is $35,000 - $40,000. It will go up after 2012. $10,000 estimate for a 2012 compliant diesel Jeep engine is on the low side. Comparing VW or any other passenger car diesel to what would have to be installed in a Jeep is not apples to apples.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

Actually finding diesel is a issue,try finding it on any military base that you can actually pump into your POV.


Oh by the way I paid $1000 more then you did for your used KJ when mine was brand new.I know for a fact mine has been cheaper to operate then yours not including suspension mods.You need all that junk just to run right and my engine and trans are 100% stock.

TJKJ, again with trying to scare people. How many of us live on military bases? I wouldn't expect to be able to fill up with the military's fuel, the same way that I don't expect to be able to fill up from that giant tank of diesel behind every local fire station. That fuel isn't for personal use, it is for a specific government use.

Are you going to tell me that you know EXACTLY where all the fuel stations are on every base, and that NONE of the PX stations have diesel? Please be quiet.
More and more stations are carrying diesel, and I would suggest that it only takes a short time looking to find a variety of options in anyone's local areas, no matter how large or small their cities are. The smaller cities might be MORE likely to have a high percentage of diesel stations, simply because every city HAS to have trucks, and trucks don't run on gas ANYWHERE. Just remember: If you bought it, a truck BROUGHT it.

As for the original cost of your gas KJ, whoop-te-do. Your truck was cheaper because it has a less efficient engine. Maybe the dealer sold it for that b/c there was an incentive or he didn't have that much into it to get it on the lot. I don't know or care. I posted about mine only to list what I paid for it and a hypothetical cost to operate IF I was to sell it now. I'm not, so the cost to operate it WILL be lower than yours, by simple fact that I probably will be keeping this vehicle after it is paid for until it is no longer drivable. I most likely won't trade it in, as a paid off vehicle doesn't cost me anything to just keep if I am driving something else normally. Who knows, I might get another Jetta TDI as my daily driver and use the Jeep just to tow.

I also specifically did NOT calculate the cost of replacing the engine, because that is a problem that affected me alone, not the "average" CRD owner, which is what I was posting about. Again, another attempt to cloud the discussion and create doubt.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

What troy was saying (I think..) was for a good while almost none of the US Mil bases had pump diesel at the on base gas stations, you had to go off base to the gas station across the street from the main gate to fill up. Which was more expensive since on base fuel was substantially cheaper

From what I've seen in the past few years, between 05 and now, all of the NC main mil bases, SMJ, CLJ, CP, FB etc all acquired double grade diesel pumps now on base

Those of us who carry cards, a moderate minority we may be, and a further minority that we live close enough to a base for it to be convenient, I could see it being a purchasing choice. You're taking a savings of more than several bucks per tank, which at ~300ish miles a tank, some of us racking 15-30k a year.. adds up

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03 Renegade (Black)
177k miles 3.7L gas - 45RFE
Command Trac / 4.10s
Lift: ft. 790+ rr. JBA4+
The last of the TrailReady Front&Rear Bumpers and TR Rock Rails
Jarhead Offroad light covers
31x10.5R15 RedLetter Grabbers on Blackrock Dunes
L.O.S.T #KD098632

We are all off topic! This thread is about the possibilily Fiat produce a Wrangler with a Diesel engine for North America not disponibility of Diesel fuel arround militairy base. Stop arguing about Diesel and Gaser please! I'm sure this is not what the autor of this thread intend wen he start it! We are all guilty and have all good reasons for our choices, I can write a 1000 words page about mine this is not gone change anything for others.

In respect for the autor of the thread and in respect for each others, we better stay on topic and let our frustration aside before the admin start a new section with "The wall of lamentation" for tittle!

Good day all

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2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB

I'm old enough to remember why VW has that advantage When they designed their gasoline engine at the demise of their aircooled flat 4 in the early 1970's they had the forsight to plan ahead, that means further then next quarters bottom line To keeps the cost of a diesel down they designed a engine family to have several common parts saving casting and machining costs. The three parts I remember were the block, crank shaft and flywheel. They are not the same in the end but processes to make them are

There are 4 stations selling diesel within a mile of my house. I've been asked "isn't it hard to find diesel" since 1978 so many times it would be impossible to count

...But getting a half ton diesel pickup can make me change my mind realy fast....
X2

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Yes, chalk up another good thread being hijacked by TJKJ's diesel inferiority complex.

I agree with Old Skull, stick to the topic or don't post at all.

These continuous hijacked threads are monotonously ridiculous. They diminish the significance of this forum with the purpose of belittling the diesel KJ and elevate the gas version.

What a waste of time.

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2006 Liberty Limited CRD, Deep Beryl Green, Yeti tune, Arp studs, new cams, rockers, lifters, TB. "Green Monster"
2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Deep Beryl Green, GDE Hot Tune, ARP studs. "Rocket"
1982 Fiat 124 Spider Convertible. "Fiona"

when the auto manufacturers claim consumer demand is low for deisel powerd passenger vehicles and light duty trucks, my response is [color=#FF0000]FIRE THE DIPSH**S IN THE MARKETING DEPARTMENTS!!!!!!!!!! [color=#000000]When do you ever see the media blitz advertising the option itself??? Keep theconsumer ill-informed of the benifits of a diesel option and of course there will be low demand and the "short fall" in sales expectations. BTW do any of the dealerships still have a backlog of 05 06 liberty CRD's in stock? Doubtful. I am sure they sold them all.

As for "emissions" How is it that a diesel vehicle easily earning 20-30% better fuel economy than a gas counterpart is putting out more?

Sorry to rant stepping down from my soapbox now. BTW do the feds know how much diesel it takes to bring ethanol (mandated) to market? Farming, Trucking, etc. I have seen news programs that suggest its a wash. Oh yeah and the pollution to the water tables where some of the early versions of it were used?

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2005 Red KJ CRD, TOTALED 12-21-11

2005 Blue KJ Sport CRD, GDE, Magnaflow muffler, Destination AT, Amsoil filters, Fumoto, Timing belt and waterpump @ 99,600, 11 blade nylon fan, 2905 hayden fan clutch, EURO TC




Arguing about whether the glass is half full or half empty misses the point: the bartender cheated you.
Unknown

If you compare the same vehicle one with diesel and the other with gas, the diesel will have an overall smaller emission footprint. However, there are 5 core emission constituents the EPA looks at: CO, HC, NOx, PM and CO2

Diesels are generally lower in CO2 by 20-30%, lower in HC by 30%, lower in CO by 50% and higher in PM by 50% (without a particulate filter) and roughly double the NOx. NOx is the killer for diesels in the states as this requires a lean NOx trap or selective catalytic reduction (SCR and urea injection). These systems are very costly at the moment and the hardware life is less than the engine life. If the EPA allowed higher NOx emissions for diesels the overall emission output would drop since the diesel will have lower emissions for the other 4 measured emissions than a gasoline counter part. Just a note, all new diesel vehicles are equipped with a particulate filter, which virtually eliminates PM emissions.

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Providers of wholly developed aftermarket solutions for the KJ CRD.
(248) 977 - 9531

Hmmmm,
I would love to have a diesel stWrangler but am not holding my breath.
In defense of TJKJ, he ads perspective, I find him irritating and often quite accurate.
Some are here to learn, share, not win popularity contests, although I am rather charming.
There is no defense for EPA, they just gave approval (Friday)for 15% ethanol in gasoline, dooming many more to starvation and destroying more older vehicles IF it is implemented.
Diesel will store, gasoline will not, kerosene will go 10 years with treatment, hope you guys are thinking about the future.

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'06 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD with: GDE Hot Flash and Tranny Flash, ehm, Cummins fuel pump, 3" Magnaflow muff, Moog K3199's, Skids, 225-75-16 10 ply, OME springs, Euro T/C, Shift kit, Trans cooler w/thermal bypass, Bigboy bkt, Samco CAC, Brake controller, Trans temp gauge, Al's Upper Arms

There’s a guy over on the Dodge Cummins forum who has full access to the research and development Center at Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep. He said he hasn’t personally seen a North American Wrangler with a diesel engine being tested; however, he did say that there are several diesels being tested. He’s personally driven a V8 Cummins in a Ram 1500. He did say that he saw a diesel in the new North American Grand Cherokee.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

TJKJ need nobody, he can take care of himself, I have great respect for those standing behind there conviction even if they are opposite to mine, but this thread is not about gasser VS Diesel it's about future development in DC diesel line up. No need to fight each other we can start a thread in the general section and talk about energy advantage and our conviction, we have some good engineers and some good handyman AKA engineer without degree Just wish we laft about it not start WWIII!

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2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB

A V6 Cummins! Ho you turn me on baby! Gosh...this is wonderful! Ford it's suppose to offer a V6 version of the power stroke in is F150 for 2012, if GM do the same in 2012 can we presume it's a conspiracy and they got no more option for 2012 certification?

_________________
2005 CRD Ltd/Tru-Cool 4454 LPD
/Filter bleeder CRDBV/Fumoto F102/ProVent 200/Euro TC
/Hayden HY2905 Viscous clutch with OEM 52079654AE fan mod
Samco/OME/Bilstein/JBA4.5/Mattech BTA Machined trans valve body
/BF rugged terrain 245/75/16 on MOAB