No, I have been baby sitting the grandson. When I go I will take four 5 gal plastic fuel cans and have a nice relaxing trip. But first I have to take some measurements for CCV development, that's if the wife & daughter ever lands back at the house with the Jeep.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

This is what I'm talking about! I'm finally scheduled to have the transmission filter TSB and this reprogram TSB done (I've been trying since last October to get the filter thing done) and now after reading this, I just don't want to ever take my jeep into the dealer.

Right now, I like how my CRD drives. I like the transmission shift points. I know I can't set cruise at 55mph without erratic shifting, but I can do 56-57mpg all day long on any hill without a problem.

Do I dare take this in and possibly have a perfectly good Jeep ruined by a dealer???

Yes I do. There are two reasons for this.

1. The wife normally drive's CRD just stop and go in a 16,000 population town , so it needs a road trip on a regular basis.

2. The local fuel is the 40 to 42 cetane crap, and I can drive 30 miles one way for 49 cetane B2, or 61 miles one way for 49 cetane B10 and let the CRD get cleaned out and all the moisture out of the oil.

We normally try to coinside this with a shopping trip to nearest shopping areas which require us to drive past these two fueling places, it just doesn't always work out that way.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Ah, neat...

Does the B10 cost any less than regular diesel out of curiosity?

Well, looks like I owe the dealership an apology. Turns out the tech did actually complete the TSB. It was mainly due to poor communication and misunderstanding, both on my part and the tech's, that I came away with the impression they'd screwed up.

After checking with oldnavy, who was present to watch the whole procedure on his, I'm confident that they did the entire procedure. Especially after driving the beast and seeing how it does.

I was under the mistaken impression from reading the TSB that the total procedure would take nearly 2 hours, 1 hour for ECM and 1 hour for TCM, two separate programming sessions.

When I got home, I looked at the worksheet, and saw they had only 1 hour listed for the TSB. I called them up and told them they may have shorted their tech an hour's pay, going by what the TSB listed, as he was supposed to program both modules. She checked with the tech, and said that he had only programmed the ECM and then did the tranny quick learn procedure.

With everything else that happened last week, my father in the hospital with food poisoning and other complications, an inordinate number of people at work out on medical as well, and then the rear pinion seal going south, to hear that they apparently botched the TSB was the last straw and I vented big time here on the forum.

After talking with oldnavy, however, the entire procedure does only take a little over 1 hour, one programming session does take care of both modules. I didn't understand that the TSB only took 1 hour, and the tech didn't understand that it was reprogramming the TCM as well, even though he did complete the procedure and do the tranny quick learn.

However, they did fail to install the vehicle mod sticker, which the TSB tells them is required by law, and when they did give me one to put on the vehicle, it was lacking nearly all of the required info. And there's still the question of the tranny filter, don't know if they're privy to info on how and when the vehicle was built that I don't have, but the tech was very confident that it didn't apply to mine.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

This is very good to hear. Sounds like more of a fool-proof process if everything uploads to our computers in one connection/transfer. I had an appointment this morning at 8:30am for this and a few other things. I dropped it off early, before they opened at 7:30am. It's now been there 7 working hours and they STILL have not brought it in to service it. What was the point of setting up an appointment last week for this morning???

I experienced the tranny shudder only once living on the east coast in 3 months and 8000 miles of driving this truck. In January I moved to Colorado, and I'm not sure what changed besides the elevation, but I have been having the 52-55 tranny shudder consistently when the temps are below 35. Anything above that temp seems to shift the problem from the 50-55 shudder to the grind/stall scenario when trying to stop. I've tried twice now to have the dealership acknowledge the problem, but once it was too warm, and the other I did not ride along.

Reading the posts in this forum has provided new hope- thanks for that. I have another appointment set up for tomorrow morning, and I plan to be in the truck with a service tech. Hopefully this works out. It is frustrating beyond words...

That TSB for filter in the tranny goes by the date on the tranny. Read the bold section below.

NUMBER: 21-016-05
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: September 01, 2005

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING PROVIDED IN ADVANCE. DO NOT ORDER PARTS OR
PERFORM ANY ACTIONS RELATED TO THIS BULLETIN UNTIL SEPTEMBER 09,
2005.
SUBJECT:
RFE Transmission - Delayed Engagement After An Extended Off Period
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves verifying the build date of the transmission, and if
necessary,
replacement of the transmission cooler return filter inside the
transmission.
MODELS:
2005 - 2006 (DR) Ram Truck
2005 - 2006 (HB) Durango
2005 - 2006 (KJ) Liberty / Cherokee
2005 - 2006 (ND) Dakota
2005 - 2006 (WK / WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 (XK) Commander
NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with the a 45RFE or a
545RFE
automatic transmission (sales code DG4 or DGQ respectively).
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The customer may experience an initial delayed shift engagement following an
extended
off (not running) period of time, generally after being parked overnight.
The initial shift
engagement may feel like a delay or slip when a transmission gear (reverse
or drive) is
first selected after engine start.
The customer may also experience a MIL illumination. Investigation may
determine that
the MIL is due to one or more of the following Diagnostic Trouble Codes
(DTC's):
P0868 - Line Pressure Low. This DTC will be the most frequently occurring
DTC for
the delayed shift condition.
P0731 - Gear Ratio Error In 1st.
P0736 - Gear Ratio Error In Reverse.
P0841 - LR Pressure Switch Rationality.
NUMBER: 21-016-05
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: September 01, 2005
P0876 - UD Pressure Switch Rationality.
P0944 - Loss Of Hydraulic Pump Prime.
The condition may be caused by a suspect cooler return filter with a part
number of
04799662AB. The suspect cooler return filter may allow transmission fluid to
drain back
out of the torque converter when the engine is not running.
DIAGNOSIS:
1. Turn the ignition to the "OFF" position.
2. Raise the vehicle on a suitable lift.
Fig. 1 TRANS IDENTIFICATION NUMBER
1 - TRANSMISSION IDENTIFICATION (SERIAL AND PART) NUMBER - 20 DIGIT
3. Inspect for the transmission build date (Julian date) (Fig. 1). The
transmission build
date can be determined by inspection of the 20 digit transmission
identification number
(DDDYxxxxxPpartnumber). The transmission identification number is stamped on
the
left side (driver side) of the transmission oil pan flange. The first four
(4) digits of the
transmission identification number are the transmission build date, in
Julian date
format. An example of a transmission identification number would be :
101510492P52119684AA. The first three digits ( 101 ) of the identification
number
equal the day of the year, in this case 101 equals April 11. The fourth
digit ( 5 ) of the
identification number equals the calendar year, in this case 5 equals 2005.
So 1015
equals April 11, 2005.
4. Determine if the vehicle's transmission was built on or between one of
the two sets of
Julian date build ranges listed below:
a. Julian date 0425 (February 11, 2005) to Julian date 0455 (February 15,
2005). 0425
to 0455.
b. Julian date 1015 (April 11, 2005) to Julian date 2345 (August 22, 2005).
1015 to
2345.
21-016-05 -2-
5. If the vehicle has the above condition, and if the transmission Julian
build date is on or
between the range of dates listed above, perform the Repair Procedure.PARTS REQUIRED:
NOTE: The correct cooler return filter will not be available until September
09, 2005.
Qty. Part No. Description
1 04799662 Filter, Cooler Return
4 05013457AA Fluid, Automatic Transmission, MS-9602
ATF+4, Quart
1 05010884AA Mopar ATF-RTV
NOTE: DO NOT use a replacement cooler return filter with a part number of
04799662AB. This filter is suspect of causing the above condition. The
filter
part number is stenciled on the side of the filter case.
SPECIAL TOOLS/EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:
8321 Oil Filter Wrench
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
Fig. 2 Transmission Filters - 4X4 Shown
1 - PRIMARY OIL FILTER
2 - COOLER RETURN FILTER
3 - COOLER RETURN FILTER BYPASS VALVE
4 - VALVE BODY
-3- 21-016-05
NOTE: All cooler return filters with the "AB" suffix (04799662AB) are
suspect. The
above condition may be corrected by replacing a suspect "AB" filter with a
new cooler return filter whose part number is 04799662 (with no suffix or
with
a suffix that is other than the "AB" level).
NOTE: A replacement 04799662 cooler return filter may come packaged with a
separate threaded adapter stud. The threaded adapter stud is used to attach
the cooler return filter to the transmission. Inspect the stud and note end
without threads. Install the stud end without the threads into the cooler
return filter and tighten the stud-to-filter connection to 18.6 Nm (165 in.
lbs.).
Once the threaded adapter stud has been installed to the cooler return
filter,
install the assembled cooler return filter to the transmission and tighten
the
filter to 14.1 Nm (125 in. lbs.)
Use the procedures outlined in TechCONNECT® ( Service Information Tab / 21 -
Transmission Transaxle / Automatic - 45RFE 545RFE / Fluid / Standard
Procedure / Fluid
and Filter Replacement) to replace the cooler return filter.
POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.
TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation
No:
Description Amount
21-55-02-90 Filter, Cooler Return - Replace 0.6 Hrs.
21-55-02-60 Optional Equipment: Skid Plate Equipped
(2005-2006 KJ / 2005 ND / 2005-2006 WK WH)
0.2 Hrs.
FAILURE CODE:
P8 New Part

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Yeah, you know it's the tranny build date, I know it's the tranny build date, but the bloody tech keeps insisting it's the VEHICLE build date! Even if you went by my vehicle build date, it would still apply for the second period listed! He probably didn't bother to read past the point where it listed the first period in February, and just blew it off.

That's why I'm taking it to the local tranny shop I mentioned. I've had work done by him before, and at least I know that THIS guy knows his business and will listen.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I see you have checked the build date and you are retired military and know how to use the Julian date system. How anyone could read this TSB and not understand it goes by transmission build date is beyond me, unless they have know idea how or what a Julian date is used. I would call Chrysler hotline and inform them of my trans build date, the problem with dealer, then read them the riot act and have them find me another dealership.

_________________
91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Well, it's done. TSB 21-016-05 and TSB 18-009-06 without them ever test driving it first. My mileage was the same in as out for the service department. I did not realize how clunky my shifting was until now. Much smoother. Also, instant reverse in the morning with the 21-016-05 now complete.

I was a bit frusterated that they charged me labor to remove and reinstall the MOPAR transmission skid plate because it did not originally come on the vehicle. If it had been an original option (as about 25% are), then that would have been covered. $33 to remove 2 bolts and loosen 2 others. I argued it down to half that, but it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth since the skid plate was purchased at a dealership in the first place.

I have to go back in to get my air filter box replaced under warranty due to the passenger side slot for the cover is cracked. I am happy this is being covered since others have been denied for the same. Just wish the day would not have ended on a negative note.

I left my truck at the dealership overnight, and will be going over in the next hour to see if we can repeat the shudder for them. for my truck, it usually really bad on cold mornings just after the tranny warms enough for the o/d to kick in.

How did you get them to complete theTSBs? If this dosn't work today, I'm taking some earlier advice and calling the district service manager. Will report back later.

After reading the TSBs, I wrote a letter (since I had to drop the keys off in a drop box before they opened) that explained my symptoms in great detail. I wrote it in the format of:

Issue Number 1:

Possible Solution Number 1:

ect. ect. My letter ended up being an entire page of single spaced text (size 10 font) with minimum top, bottom, and side margins - so it was extensive and courteous. I had also found a dealer willing to listen and partially agree to do the service before I would bring it in (took 14 Indiana dealers to find ONE to half-way agree that the TSBs may be needed without me having to leave the Jeep overnight).

With that much detail documented for their files they had the proof they needed to do the service since the TSBs only ask for the customer to report the said problems. A proper tech will actually read and interpret the TSBs correctly.

I'm just worn out from the whole experience, and am cringing that I still have to go back to get my air filter box - even though it's been approved and ordered under warranty.

Everyone in the service department was basically still an a-hole, but with my documented and signed letter, they had to address the issues.

After the argument about labor for removing my MOPAR skid plate, they "forgot" to tell me when my Jeep was finished and I sat an additional hour and a half in the waiting room (until 6pm - I dropped it off at 6:30am) and only discovered it finished when I walked out back of the shop and saw it parked in a very concealing/hidden spot behind a security gate. It's no wonder everyone buys foreign vehicles. It's not just the vehicle, it's the service that's even more important.

Amen, amen and AMEN!



I believe that's the tranny filter fix. I pulled away one cold evening with my fiancee in the truck with me. Started the truck, drove about 40 yards and hit the brakes to stop at the red light. Truck began to stop, then lurched against my brake pressure, trying to head out into the intersection. I pushed the brakes harder and it kept trying to pull. It finally stalled out because I wouldn't let it go (with increasing brake pressure).

Thankfully, the truck threw a check engine light a couple days later. I took it in, told them about the slow gear engagement and the lurching into an intersection and they gave it back to me the next day and it never did it again.

Good luck, and be especially careful after cold starts. The fact that Jeep doesn't fix this in a recall amazes me. That lurch and stall is akin to attempted murder. If someone weren't paying attention to the vehicular inputs, it could easily pull you right into traffic.

_________________

_______________________DogDomain_______________________

I mentioned that on mine, the engine noise level is noticeably reduced, especially on cold startup. But no one else that has had it done so far has noticed the same.

Could be, mine was built 11 May 05, prior to the updated software from the previous TSB, and never had the previous TSB performed. In other words, I was running older software to begin with than those with a later build date, and mine was "noisier" to begin with. I took two steps up in software, while most everyone else so far has just went up one.

One other thing I've noticed. When backing out into the driveway after a cold startup, it still does about the same, 2 or 3 mph at most without any pedal. But the other night I did a warm restart after a 1/2 hour, and that bloody thing took off in reverse, somewhere between 5 to 10 mph I'd estimate, fast enough I had to ride the brakes to control it and uttered a surprised expletive. Might want to be careful initially when backing up after a warm restart.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Well, good news. I talked them into allowing a service tech to drive the truck with me riding along. He is their diesel mechanic and was familiar with the issues and the TSBs noted above. Most importantly, the truck had the reverse issue and also the shudder. I was about to give in because it did not shudder for the first mile, when all of a sudden it went into a violent episode. Couldn't have timed it better!

So, they have it in the service area now, and hopefully will do both TSBs!

dog_party - that is exactly what hapened to mine. It almost pulled me into an intersection before it died! I never got any codes from it though...

I just received word from the dealership, and they performed TSB 21-016-05, and also one that I have not heard of 18-038-05r. Anyone heard of that last one? It is a reflash, and I'm hoping it's the same one. I gave them the 18-009-06 TSB number and they are looking into it. I'm really happy they did something to the truck!

That new TSB must be the same one they are doing right now to our CRD. It involves replacing the clock spring and effects the steering wheel angle sensor. It was major enough that they need to do it on all the 2006's they have in inventory before they can sell them...

That flash is for the area you live, engine start and driveability at altitude or brake switch. I don't know how you got r, it should be rev. a

http://alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/1134720 ... A/381.html

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

Did a search on the internet and found this link:

http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Chrysler/113 ... 5/381.html

It appears this TSB covers high altitude engine shake and brake switch issues. I am not sure if it is the same as the 18-009-06, but it does involve an ECM reflash. I am scheduled for pickup shortly.