New Turbo Idea Taking Off

NotPicky · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:18 am

Hey guys. The new turbo design that I've been thinking of doing is now on its way to be reality. Just bought GT2560R Garrett. Custom turbo flange adapter is being built to turn the CRD manifold to a T3 flange. If the stock turbo shares the specifications of the GT2056 non vgt turbo on Garrett's website then the GT2560R would be a great step up ... (here's the link to Garretts turbo comparison)

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... _sheet.htm

The GT2560R is a ball bearing turbo with a watercooled center. It is not a variable vane. I'm converting the stock wastegated GT25R's turbine side to a non wastegated T3 Flanged housing. (see link) I will have a external wastegate system to have easier control over the boost and not over speed the turbo.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRETT- ... 5880ab9b43

I understand this is a project, but I like to try new things. I'm building a R/T version of this CRD Liberty. Airdog fuel system, bigger nozzles, EGR delete, Built Trans, Custom trans and engine tunes. Stock stance with 20" wheels off a Dodge Nitro R/T. Kinda a Street/Strip Diesel Jeep.

What is your guy's thoughts and concerns?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 am

I wish you luck.

Personally I prefer a dependable road vehicle. And if/when my turbo acts up I'll be looking at GDE's electrically controlled one.

VGT's were originally selected because they were smaller and had fast spin up. They work well on tdi's with mosty only sticking vane problems.

Keep us posted.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:42 am

I'm interested in how this turns out. I think the stock turbo is too small and generally a poor performer. Would be neat to see other options out there. Keep us posted on your progress.

NotPicky · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:30 am

Theres modified vehicles out there that are dependable road vehicles. Like most of us CRD owners know that if a part breaks know one usually stocks it anyway.

I believe that this being a ball bearing, spool up would be faster than a jounal bearing. Ball bearings have proven themselves to be dependable turbo on other diesels or gassers. There might be lag compared to a variable but the right tuning can help with that. Being a automatic helps with spooling vs a stick.

I agree that the stock turbo is a poor performer and small. I've been monitoring how the Jeep performs either empty or towing going down the road. The Jeep is usually using all the power the engine puts out. It never shows signs of slowing down at any speed when empty, but the turbo is usually at full song to climb hills. This is where the fuel economy suffers. (Its like climbing hills with your foot on the floor) Why does a 1.9L in a 3200 lb car get 50mpg and a 2.8L in a 4600lb suv gets 22mpg? My dodge gets 20mpg in a 6500lb truck with a 5.9L. My guess is more horsepower usually doesn't mean less mpgs. If the engine can breath and work less then less fuel will be consumed. Yes aerodynamics play a part aswell.

I'm a performance guy. I like to tinker I guess. It just sucks that there is very very few options for us U.S. CRD owners. I've talked to Kieth at GDP. He is a great guy with great products. I'm building this Jeep to take to diesel events. Even if it runs 13s or 14s, it might spark interests in the aftermarket, plus it will be neat to see a Jeep perform on a track. Only time will tell.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:31 pm

So you want to make it less of a Jeep and more of a race car... <sigh>

bhc04 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:22 pm

NotPicky wrote:

Theres modified vehicles out there that are dependable road vehicles. Like most of us CRD owners know that if a part breaks know one usually stocks it anyway.

I believe that this being a ball bearing, spool up would be faster than a jounal bearing. Ball bearings have proven themselves to be dependable turbo on other diesels or gassers. There might be lag compared to a variable but the right tuning can help with that. Being a automatic helps with spooling vs a stick.

I agree that the stock turbo is a poor performer and small. I've been monitoring how the Jeep performs either empty or towing going down the road. The Jeep is usually using all the power the engine puts out. It never shows signs of slowing down at any speed when empty, but the turbo is usually at full song to climb hills. This is where the fuel economy suffers. (Its like climbing hills with your foot on the floor) Why does a 1.9L in a 3200 lb car get 50mpg and a 2.8L in a 4600lb suv gets 22mpg? My dodge gets 20mpg in a 6500lb truck with a 5.9L. My guess is more horsepower usually doesn't mean less mpgs. If the engine can breath and work less then less fuel will be consumed. Yes aerodynamics play a part aswell.

I'm a performance guy. I like to tinker I guess. It just sucks that there is very very few options for us U.S. CRD owners. I've talked to Kieth at GDP. He is a great guy with great products. I'm building this Jeep to take to diesel events. Even if it runs 13s or 14s, it might spark interests in the aftermarket, plus it will be neat to see a Jeep perform on a track. Only time will tell.

Some good points you make but as far as engine size, vehicle weight vs. milage, there are many, many other factors that come into play in regard to performance, milage etc. Gearing is a big one, driving conditions another, drivers skills and techniques a big one also. Any engine can be improved for a specific purpose but not improved completely to top all purpose. Sacrifices for one or the other are always made in order to get the maximum performance for a specific purpose vehicle. All purpose is what most manufacturers shoot for in order to accomodate different driver needs.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:37 pm

Ball bearings will be nice, but I don't like the idea of loosing the VG Turbo. I like how quickly it spools and how hard it spools.

NotPicky · **Posted:** Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:49 pm

There are pros and cons for sure.

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

JL Rockies wrote:

So you want to make it less of a Jeep and more of a race car... <sigh>

why do people say that? I see it in every car forum i've ever been on. Not everyone will want to conform to YOUR ideal of how a Jeep should be done. For example I think the snorkel is the dumbest thing ever to be put on a Jeep that doesn't regularly go fjording across massive rivers all the time. Next you'll come picking on me because I'm not planning on wheeling mine into the deepest darkest forests around, or crawl over rock piles. Isn't it bad enough we have Wrangler owners that look down and mock on Liberty's simply because they're NOT Wranglers? I bought mine for my reasons, you for yours. Please prove to me that the Jeep crowd is better than the honda's, or the nissan's, or the toyota's.

/rant

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:29 pm

I'm with you Sota, I see no problem with a high performance Jeep Liberty CRD or Jeep Wrangler for that matter. I'm this close to beating the neighbors Porsche. Just show me how. :SOMBRERO:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:41 pm

racertracer wrote:

I'm this close to beating the neighbors Porsche.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:52 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

racertracer wrote:

I'm this close to beating the neighbors Porsche.

Why, I resemble that remark.

NotPicky · **Posted:** Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:02 pm

Thanks guys I'm with you. Just like there are people who use their pickups for hauling, off road, or even drag. I have off road vehicles. I thought a Jeep Liberty sporting 20s with the rake stance would look awesome hauling booty down the strip. Plus the bad booty 4wd launches. :SOMBRERO:

NotPicky · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:58 am

Here's the redering of the new adapter. Stock CRD flange to T3 flange

NotPicky · **Posted:** Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Turbo arrived today... :BANANA:

GT2560R

Stock CRD flange gasket

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:17 pm

I have worked with Turbo Chargers for years, built Turbo manifolds, and owned several Turbo Diesel Vehicles. The response of the VGT in both my Wife's TDI and my CRD are so much better than the old Waste Gate Turbos of the past. The only thing that held back the VGT was the cost to make the change. Once the leap was made the production costs came down and the Bean Counters lost their Death Grip. This was a great technological advance that made the Common Rail Diesel superior/competitive in performance to every day gassers and sold them to some of the doubters.
Why give up a VGT for a waste gate turbo?
It's like giving up a Modern Military Arm for a Muzzle Loader on a battle field in Afghanistan or Iraq. :banghead:

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:39 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Why give up a VGT for a waste gate turbo?
It's like giving up a Modern Military Arm for a Muzzle Loader on a battle field in Afghanistan or Iraq. :banghead:

How many reasons would you like? I'm not sure where to start.

There is a reason why the $52,000 2011 model 800 lb./ft. pickup trucks are still using ball bearing non-VGT turbos.

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:45 pm

Actually, all of them are using VGT turbos and have been for many years.

The Cummins is the Holset electrically controlled turbo.
The new Ford 6.7L Scorpion is the Garrett/Honeywell twin-compressor VGT that also has a turbine bypass.
The Duramax is a single Garrett/Honeywell turbo that's VGT.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:53 am

Really? Well that's a new one on me. All the specs. they've been showing on them in the magazines seem to indicate that they are using ball bearing standard turbos on them. Hmm...

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:54 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

Really? Well that's a new one on me. All the specs. they've been showing on them in the magazines seem to indicate that they are using ball bearing standard turbos on them. Hmm...

Want to buy a Titanium Buggy Whip? :ROTFL:

I can design build one for a price, $55K sound OK? :BANANA:

New Turbo Idea Taking Off

Who is online