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 Post subject: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:41 pm 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
Hi,
Just recently happened and was able to repeat the P0093 code on my 06 CRD. I get the code when I use 3/4 to full accelerator pedal application. The CEL comes on and the vehicle goes into limp mode. Resetting the CEL with my scanner fixed the problem and as long as I don't exceed 3/4 accelerator I don't have any issues with the vehicle.


Here's what I've done so far

1. New racor fuel filter
2. Checked Kennedy lift pump and it is working and providing 4psi of fuel pressure to the fuel head.
3. Installed a segment of clear fuel line to the engine to see if the fuel system was sending air to the engine. No bubbles.


I'm thinking its either the FCV on the fuel rail or the Mprop on the high pressure fuel pump. How do I tell which one is bad? Odds are its the FCV but I don't want to blow 400-500 for it only to find out I still have the problem. I've read online that the CP3 pump is very reliable and no likely to be the causeo failure. I always improve fuel lubricity with powerservice blended with very low ash 2 stroke oil and if I have it, 1/2 gallon of B100 per tank. I add a can of seafoam to the tank every 25k and I will do a diesel purge on it later this week to see if that helps. I used diesel purge on my TDIs with great success.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:07 am
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Location: Colorado Baby!
If I knew what part of the world you were located in I would offer to let you borrow the FCV out of my parts jeep to test and see if thats the problem.

Unfortunately, I don't know where you are. :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:36 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
Sir Sam,
Sorry about not having my location posted in my profile. I live about 3.5 miles off of Voyager South of Flying Horse Ranch.

I would be very grateful if I could borrow your FCV to rule it out. I lost my full time job 2 weeks ago and don't have $$ to throw around replacing parts-am starting a part time job next week :-) I'll gladly pay you a fee for your time or buy you your favorite beverage if you can hook me up with an FCV to test to see if it was my old FCV that was bad.

Please let me know and I'll gladly drive up your way to borrow the part.
Drew


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:14 pm
Posts: 431
Location: RTP, NC
I'm not sure what you mean by Mprop?

I do know there is a small control valve on the back of the CP3. I think this is your problem.

the FCV controls the air not the fuel.

my wife's jeep had a similar problem, yes the P0093 code...I tried everything fuel related..then it quite starting..even trying to start..
I got a used CP3 from, Geordi, installed..still running today. I think while the CP3 is quite reliable the other parts are not.

please keep us posted.

-dkenny

_________________
84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..:(4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11 :(
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
The MPROP is what i believe is called the Fuel Quantity Solenoid valve and is located on the back of the front cover of the high-pressure pump. The solenoid is pulse-width modulated by the ECM and meters the amount of fuel that flows into the high-pressure elements inside the high-pressure pump.

I was calling the the Fuel Pressure Solenoid valve the fuel control valve, not to be confused with the air flow control valve in the intake- and it is is screwed into the rear of the fuel rail. This solenoid controls and maintains constant rail pressure by a control current transmitted by the ECM.

So how do I know which one is bad and can the mprop be replaced by itself or do I need to get a new cp3?


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:21 am 
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Location: RTP, NC
from a time and effort point of view. if you can find the mprop by itself. change that first.
changing the CP3 is a bunch of work. I never tried to find the mprop

-dkenny

_________________
84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..:(4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11 :(
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Minneapolis, MN
This hasn't been very popular, but I'll post it again. It might help: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... y=CO3NyM4B

Since you've already ruled out air in your fuel lines, you can skip to page 2. I don't have any tests for the quantity solenoid or the CP3 pump yet, but you should be able to check the injectors and PCV (fuel pressure solenoid)... and I would check both of these first since they are much cheaper than a CP3 pump.

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2005 KJ CRD
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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:53 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
well, something interesting happened today after i ran 1/2 liter of diesel purge directly into the fuel system, pure, not diluted by fuel. i still get the code but it now occurs at full throttle at 3800 rpm. prior to this, it occured at 1/2 to 3/4 accelerator pedal operation at rpms above 2500 rpm but not necessarily at redline.

i am also running b5 biodiesel in the tank because biodiesel is a natural solvent and not sure if this helped. if this stays as is, i will be ok with the rpm limitation since i typically don't accelerate that hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:24 pm 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
I borowed a fuel rail Sir Sam graciously lent me from a low mileage spare engines hoping it would fix my P0093 code that occurs in 3rd-5th gears at 3500-4000 rpm thinking that the fuel control valve on the back of the fuel rail was bad. Note: at full accelerator application, this code doesn't occur in 1-2nd gear.

Results: I got the same code at the same time.

Queston: Can the MPROP on the CP3 pump be removed with the pump on the vehicle? It looks like I will have to remove the intake elbow but I'm an old pro doing that with 2 replacements of the #3 glow plug. Has anybody removed the MPROP and replaced it????


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Location: RTP, NC
its possible to remove while the CP3 is in the Jeep. it wasn't too bad..be very careful to not drop tools or parts. then can get lost.
I spent the better part of an hour looking an allen wrench that I dropped..I found it after I dropped the 2nd one..

-dkenny

_________________
84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..:(4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11 :(
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
I really don't want to remove the CP3 but replace the mprop on it. However, if I do end up needing to replace it, did you need to use the special Miller tools for the job??

Thanks
Drew


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm
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The Mprop is held in place with 3 torx head bolts. A pain to access, but it can be replaced with out removing the CP3 or too much stuff. Removing the CAC hose and maybe the intake throttle may help. It is definitely not the PCV on the rail since that change had no effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:14 pm
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Location: RTP, NC
I did it without the special tools..but won't do it again. way too much trouble. if you end up by pulling the CP3. think about changing the timing belt while your there. I did.

check the GDE. I think they rent the tools.

-dkenny

_________________
84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..:(4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11 :(
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough


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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:31 am
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Location: Hillsboro. OR
Did you find out what was causing the P0093 code?

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 Post subject: Re: Another P0093...how to diagnose if FCV or Mprop?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:35 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Posts: 902
Yes, bad fuel. Took 3 filter changes to clear the problem completely. I noticed that a new filter or fuel system cleaner made the problem better (took more go pedal or higher rpms for error to occur) but then over time it got worse till vehicle was hard to drive again-error occuring at low go pedal applications and lower rpms. I'm thinking of using another filter inline with larger micron rating than my Racor as a prefilterthose racor filters got expensive.


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