Still Rubbin

dynokj007 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:12 pm **Posts:** 43

Well after the lift and the big tires, 245/75/16 to be exact i am still rubbin, whats the cure? i have heard about wheel spacers are they actually safe? if os what is available and what should i get?

thanks

USPLibby · **Joined:** Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:29 am **Posts:** 377

Do you know where? Inside the wheel well next to the foglight door?

Most of us have taken a heat gun to that area and pushed in the plastic. You can tell when the plastic is ready to be maliable when it "flashes" or changes from dull to shiny. Just don't hold it there too long. I wrapped the foglight wires with tin foil just in case it got too hot back there.

WV(0)IIIIIII(0) · **Posted:** Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:10 am

Quote:

i have heard about wheel spacers are they actually safe

Wheel spacers on a 4wd is probably the worst thing you could do. The spacer puts more pressure on the actual lug/stud that is meant to only hold your wheel on. So if you had these on and took it off road then you increase the chance of damage.

LimitedLurker · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:18 pm **Posts:** 114

Identify the rub before doing anything or you could make it worse. Adding spacers or lower backspace rims increases the arc of the wheel and increases the rubbing at the outside edge of the wheel.

As far as spacers are concerned ...

There are several types of spacers available, you need to be real careful about what you use. I strongly recommend that you google this and do the reading for yourself to make the right decision for you.

A quick review of what I found:
Some are flat plates that slide over the existing lugs and use the existing lugs to attach the wheel. These are usually 1/4" or less. These can be too thin to take the stresses applied and they can break. They move the attachment forces further out on the lug increasing the "lever" effect the wheel has on the studs. They use up the stud length and this can prevent the lug nuts from "locking" down allowing the nuts to work loose.

You may be able to find stud extenders but these only address the "locking" issues discussed above.

Some are thicker "contoured" spacers with new lugs pressed in. Attach the spacer to the existing studs and the wheel to the new studs. These are cast and not machined. Because of the shape there is limited contact area on each side of the spacer. This allows the spacer to flex and eventually break. The casting process can leave natural weak points in the spacer increasing the chances of breakage.

A final type I'll cover are the billet aluminum spacers. These are thick spacers (1.25" min. for the KJ) with pressed in studs. Like the above they are attched to the existing studs while the wheels are attached to the new studs that are pressed into the spacer. These are made from solid aluminum and machined to shape. This prevents the weak spots that you can find in the cast type spacers. These seem to be the safest and I use them myself. The concern I do have is that they have a smaller diameter than the mounting surfaces of the wheel and KJ. I think its 1/4" all the way around. This seems to leave some forces on the rim unsupported. Could the rim flex/twist in some way to allow the rim to break? No problems so far and I have not read any such complaints (although I have not really looked either)

InCommando · **Posted:** Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:02 am

If you need spacers, I would not hesitate to use them. I've seen them used for years and thousands of miles wothout problems. BUT: get the high quality aluminum ones, not just rings with holes in them. go to www.trailsport4x4.com or someplace. They bolt onto the original lugs and the wheel bolts onto the new lugs pressed into the spacer. I have used 2" spacers on the rear of my Commando for 2 years. The stress changes on the driveline are no diferent than changing the backspacing on your rims. It may eventually cause premature wearing of bearings, but so does larger than stock tires and bigger/heavier rims.

EDIT: Ok, I started typing my reply before the one above was posted, and it is much more clear than mine. In relation to actual wheel mounting contact, most rims actually contact the hub much less than you might think. This is more evident in older steel wheels. You take off the wheel and see the rub and rust spots in the rotor surface and go "man, I thought the whole thing contacted..."

dynokj007 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:12 pm **Posts:** 43

well the rubbin happens when i turn the wheel either left or right, its either on the inside sway bar or the rear of the fender well.

I have lived with it for a long time, and i am just getting sick and tired of people looking at me evertime i make a sharp turn.

In getting some spacers LimitedLurker did a perfect presentation of what they are and how they are used, i now have a better understanding

i will definetly get the good kind for sure, its not like a small piece that goes in the car. YOU ARE ACTUALLY PLAYING WITH SAFETY, but i am not too worried as long as it doesnt flip me over.

AdamIsAdam · **Posted:** Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:21 pm

Umm, have you done this yet?

and

See more pics on how to trim the pinch weld area and the fog light/inner fender well area here:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/325889/12

I'd do that before spacers for safety reasons, as mentioned. Also, if you move the wheel out, you may create new places that it will rub, like the fenders.

dynokj007 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:12 pm **Posts:** 43

ok Adam i will try it, i love using the dremel and nice pics BTW.

Its just so hot outside i am gonna wait till it gets a bit cooler

AdamIsAdam · **Posted:** Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:17 pm

I hear ya. But it was easy!

dynokj007 · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:12 pm **Posts:** 43

Ok a million thanks for all the info, i finally did a bit of trimming and it has helped, however something new has risen now. As far as the rubbing on the fender wells its no longer existing, however the left side does still rub the sway bar when the wheel is in full turn position.

#2. When driving normally and turning, it sounds like there is garggling noise coming from the front, almost like rubbing but more lke when you're stomach goes on super LAX. No problems driving or stopping or stearing however i have noticed it pulling to the left a bit, perhaps an alignment.

#3. The other day i said let me test the 4x4, so i went on a bit gravelly surface and engaged it, fine, however while driving clunking noises where coming at slwo speed, but once i speed up, no more noise... i dont get it, if there is a probelm shouldnt exist all the time???

Vinni

AdamIsAdam · **Posted:** Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:31 am

If you're running 245/75 you should not be hitting sway bars. If you're running 265/75, you will hit sway bars. that size tire limits your turning abililty for just that reason. (That's why I went with 31" instead of 32". I feel being able to turn comes in handy when you're off road!)

Noise: the noise you describe COULD be CV joints. When you get it aligned, have them check that. It also could be something rubbing or vibrating around since you just cut up the fender. I noticed my fender liner is very loose now. That's also due in part to my fenders being loose. I own and carry with my a plastic rivet gun and extra rivets. Last time off road, I replaced 3 while on the trail!

as for the 4x4 clunking, you'll have to describe the situation that you heard it more. But there is a lot of "normal" clunking that comes from a part-time 4x4 system. Something's got to give when you're not going perfectly straight.

FreedomKJ · **Posted:** Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:54 am

AdamIsAdam wrote:

If you're running 245/75 you should not be hitting sway bars. If you're running 265/75, you will hit sway bars. that size tire limits your turning abililty for just that reason. (That's why I went with 31" instead of 32". I feel being able to turn comes in handy when you're off road!)

I'm running smaller tires than him (245/65R17, same as 245/70R16) and I rub the swaybar when turning. This may be partially because my wheels are 7.5" wide vs 7" for 16" KJ wheels.

longarm · **Posted:** Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:42 am

..........

vxla · **Posted:** Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:21 pm

And just when you think you've fixed it, you'll flex and find the back rubs like hell.

Just give up ;; that's where I'm at by now.

jzsurfjeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:17 pm

vxla wrote:

And just when you think you've fixed it, you'll flex and find the back rubs like hell.

Just give up ;; that's where I'm at by now.

Yep ... just let it rub. I recently bought a 2.5" Rusty lift & 265/65/R17 Revos in preparation for Camp Jeep 2005 in PA. I bent the pinch weld and just accepted the minor rubbing behind the front fog lights. I was surprised to experience some noticable rubbing on the top, inside part of the rear tires when they travel all the way up.

BTW ... the Inermediate trails at Camp Jeep 2005 in PA were MUCH more difficult than Camp Jeep 2004 in VA. The stock Wrangler in front of me bent a foot step and the tail hitch. I feel lucky to have made through unsathed considering the fact that I only have a transfer case skid plate. Great time, though!

Still Rubbin

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