shudder while stopping. Help!

ribak · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:44 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Comments/thoughts some kind of basic so bear with me:
1. you mention that the "ESP" light occasionally comes on which suggests perhaps the stability control system is doing something odd. So have you tried pulling an stored codes or maybe try turning the system off (p 131 of the Owner's Manual) to see if that makes any difference? This light can also come on when stopping if you press the go pedal and the brake pedal at the same time and doing so could cause shudder.
2. you mention that the "oil" level is ok but in context the question related to transmission fluid level so did you check the transmission fluid level? If so did you use the method specified in the owner's manual? Is the fluid in your transmission ATF+4?
3. there was some thought that the torque converter was not unlocking which may be possible. Unless you have the GDE TCM tune the TC should be unlocked below about 35 mph (with the tune a bit lower) and if it's unlocked when you take your foot off the go pedal RPMs should almost immediately drop to near idle speed. If so the TC is unlocked. If there is no significant drop the TC is locked.
4. have you tried shifting into Neutral when stopping? If the problem goes away then the source is likely in the brake system. If it doesn't go away the problem is likely in the drive train.

1. Yes, I tried to turn the ESP off - no difference.
2. The fluid level was checked as per "the book" many times - no difference. ( I even tried to add or withdraw some fluid to see if ti makes the difference - no luck) I use ATF+4.
3. RPM goes down when I take my foot off the brake.
4. Tried that too. The Jeep stopped down without the shudder. But when I put it back to drive the vihicle shaddered (while being at stop).

Thank you papaindigo. Any other thoughts? Should I order a new TC and transgo kit?

ribak · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:58 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

Papaindigo: just to add a little to your #4, the brakes are not part of this problem. If the vehicle is stalling after stopped, the brake system is out of the picture. If there is a tranny fluid supply problem, the TC clutch cannot disengage, this can occur from a leaky pump, clogged tranny filter or stuck valves. I don't know which is the most likely here and there could also be other reasons but the issue is almost certainly the tranny.

Thank you nursecosmo. What is my next step, if you are right and it is not a torque converter problem? Shall I wash the tranny, change the filters and fluid? What is the solution would be if that is leaky valve problem - do I need to change it (how???) or transgo kit would fix it? The fluid and filters in the tranny were changed 7,000 kms ago... And I have GDE eco and TCM tunes.
Sorry for asking so many questions. I am not a mechanic and this Jeep is new to me. My mechanic friends can not help to identify what is wrong with my truck... Thank you all. Your help is greatly appreciated.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:13 pm

My first choice would be to change the fluid and filters in the tranny. It is due for that annyway @70000 km. If you do that and it persists, move on the the next thing.

Make sure that the new revised spin on filter is used and not old stock of the faulty ones. I don't know what the part numbers are but you can find it here on the forum.

ribak · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:33 pm

Sorry it is 7,000 kms not 700000... :oops:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:44 pm

In your response to my #3 I assume you ment when you take your foot off the throttle not brake? If so then the TC is unlocked.

Your response to #4 is interesting. After a stop putting the transmission back in gear caused a shudder. When it does that have you tried taking your foot off the brake and if so does the vehicle want to like "jump" forward as opposed to the normal forward motion you get when the engine is idling with your foot off the brake. If the former then something is causing the tranny to not drop into "idle" mode but beyond that I'm a dunce on automatic transmissions.

I see nursecosmo beat me to it but I concur one of the first and cheapest things to do is change the fluid and filters. You might also consider as part of that exercise doing or having done a full tranny fluid flush so you replace 100% of the old fluid. UPDATE did this problem start after the recent service? If so I'd immediately suspect the fluid and/or filters. If not I'd still look at codes.

But before you do a fluid service I think it might be worth the effort to pull any fault codes associated with the tranny. Unfortunately I don't know what entities, other than a dealer, might have a code reader that can pull tranny codes, perhaps a good transmission shop. The 545RFE transmission is heavy on electronics so you could simply have a bad solenoid or speed sensor that's tricking the transmission into thinking the vehicle is moving when it's not.

ribak · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:54 pm

Thank you papaindigo. I will work on your suggestions and let the forum know what happened.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:29 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

My first choice would be to change the fluid and filters in the tranny. It is due for that annyway @70000 km. If you do that and it persists, move on the the next thing.

Make sure that the new revised spin on filter is used and not old stock of the faulty ones. I don't know what the part numbers are but you can find it here on the forum.

Ribak : any idea which brand of filters were used during the service? There have been known to be some faulty spin on filters with bad check valves floating around. Did they only drop the pan, change the filters, and top up the fluid or did they also flush out all of the transmission fluid?

I agree with the others that you should have the filters changed again. All problems started after the trans service it appears, so start with that. Use only the OEM filters so you know there should be no issues with them. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

ribak · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:28 am

WolverineFW wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

My first choice would be to change the fluid and filters in the tranny. It is due for that annyway @70000 km. If you do that and it persists, move on the the next thing.

Make sure that the new revised spin on filter is used and not old stock of the faulty ones. I don't know what the part numbers are but you can find it here on the forum.

Ribak : any idea which brand of filters were used during the service? There have been known to be some faulty spin on filters with bad check valves floating around. Did they only drop the pan, change the filters, and top up the fluid or did they also flush out all of the transmission fluid?

I agree with the others that you should have the filters changed again. All problems started after the trans service it appears, so start with that. Use only the OEM filters so you know there should be no issues with them. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

I have no idea what kind of filters were used... Do you think filters could cause such big of a problem?

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:30 pm

ribak wrote:

WolverineFW wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

My first choice would be to change the fluid and filters in the tranny. It is due for that annyway @70000 km. If you do that and it persists, move on the the next thing.

Make sure that the new revised spin on filter is used and not old stock of the faulty ones. I don't know what the part numbers are but you can find it here on the forum.

Ribak : any idea which brand of filters were used during the service? There have been known to be some faulty spin on filters with bad check valves floating around. Did they only drop the pan, change the filters, and top up the fluid or did they also flush out all of the transmission fluid?

I agree with the others that you should have the filters changed again. All problems started after the trans service it appears, so start with that. Use only the OEM filters so you know there should be no issues with them. Hopefully this will solve the problem.

I have no idea what kind of filters were used... Do you think filters could cause such big of a problem?

Could they cause this problem...possibly?

Did you problems appears shortly after your transmission service?....it appears you indicated that fact.

Is changing the filters with OEM and topping up another 5qts ATF 4+ your cheapest possible solution at this point? .... Most likely.

ribak · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:11 pm

I changed the transmission oil and filters... Right after that I colud not move the car at all for 10 minets, despite high RPM or shift position. After ten minets the car start to move at about 2500-3000 rpm and check engine is on. It also has a big delay when shift is changing to D or R or N... The Jeep is in limp mode and hardly moving at all. Is that a TC, trnsmission pump or something else? Please help. Thank you all.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:23 am

Sounds like low fluid. Do you know how much fluid was drained during the process? If so then at least that much needed to be replaced. I ask because the FSM has a "service" fill amount and a larger "over haul" fill amount. If your anti-drain back valve was not working properly then fluid would drain from your torque convertor into the transmission pan. In that event when you did the service or had it done more fluid would have been removed than during a normal service hence you would need to add somewhat more fluid than the FSM specified "service" amount although likely somewhat less than the "over haul" amount.

As I recall a couple of other forum members have had a similar problem which was curied by adding more ATF+4 to bring the tranny fluid up to the proper level.

To check this follow the transmission fluid level check procedure in your owner's manual which can be done on a cold engine/tranny. If the fluid is not upto the cold level on the tranny dipstick add more ATF+4 until it is to that level.

ribak · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:12 pm

Yes, the fluid was the first thing that we checked and double checked - the level is good, but the jeep is hardly at all moving and gets into limp mode right away

.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:10 pm

ribak wrote:

Yes, the fluid was the first thing that we checked and double checked - the level is good, but the jeep is hardly at all moving and gets into limp mode right away

.

Perhaps this seems like a dumb question, but did check it with the engine running?

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Mine does the shudder or stall out the engine on stopping too. It is worse when the weather is cool/cold and at start-up. Fluid and filter were changed and levels are correct. Whether it be the torque converter or the pump or somethings else within the transmission, something isn't disengaging the way it should be. I'm taking it as a potential sign that end could be near for the torque converter. I have almost 125K miles and it's still the OEM F37 unit. The pump could be suspect as well.

Hopefully your current problem involving limp mode and unwillingness to move is a fluid level issue.

ribak · **Posted:** Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:38 am

Finally my problem is solved! :BANANA:

After THIRD transmission fluid and filters change I noticed that the black plastic coupler (it is called fluid control valve!?) on spin on filter was not tight enough... I tighetned it with a wrench ( I thought I would wreck it) and put it back on the tranny. ALL the codes are gone, shudder is gone, jeep runs like new! Who would think that finger tightening this small plastic coupler would cause such a dramatic problems. A tiny leak through the fitting and tranny goes south. I already was looking for a used transmission to change... I know what you all thinking about me :ROTFL:

Thank you all for the help.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:02 pm

Like I said..go back to what you did before the problems began. ;-)

Glad you got it fixed.

dylan7495 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:32 pm

ribak wrote:

Finally my problem is solved! :BANANA:

After THIRD transmission fluid and filters change I noticed that the black plastic coupler (it is called fluid control valve!?) on spin on filter was not tight enough... I tighetned it with a wrench ( I thought I would wreck it) and put it back on the tranny. ALL the codes are gone, shudder is gone, jeep runs like new! Who would think that finger tightening this small plastic coupler would cause such a dramatic problems. A tiny leak through the fitting and tranny goes south. I already was looking for a used transmission to change... I know what you all thinking about me :ROTFL:

Thank you all for the help.

Any chance for a pic of this valve?

ribak · **Posted:** Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:09 pm

dylan7495 wrote:

ribak wrote:

Finally my problem is solved! :BANANA:

After THIRD transmission fluid and filters change I noticed that the black plastic coupler (it is called fluid control valve!?) on spin on filter was not tight enough... I tighetned it with a wrench ( I thought I would wreck it) and put it back on the tranny. ALL the codes are gone, shudder is gone, jeep runs like new! Who would think that finger tightening this small plastic coupler would cause such a dramatic problems. A tiny leak through the fitting and tranny goes south. I already was looking for a used transmission to change... I know what you all thinking about me :ROTFL:

Thank you all for the help.

Any chance for a pic of this valve?

No, I do not have a picture. It is actually a part of a spin on filter. It is a black plastic coupler with shreads on both sides. It does not look like a valve at all, but for some wierd reason called fluid control valve...

shudder while stopping. Help!

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