Different possible oil grades. I can't find 5W-30 here.

dkenny · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:08 pm

ok..
do you really know what the 5w..30w..40w means

I not talking about the difference between additives for gas or diesel..these are different

5w--oil weight..how well it flows at a given temperature..5w is thin..pours well at low temps..0w even better...
its thinner..

40w how the oil compares to a straight weight oil..remember them 30w..50w..not 10w-50..just 50w..
or so 90w..or 140w( think differentials..) anyway this is how the oil behaves at a high temps

so if you're in the middle of winter in Co..and it -40C..I hope you don't have 40w oil in the engine..might not flow..no lubrication.. 0w would be a better choice..

but now its summer and you moved to the tropics where the low is in the 30C ranges...then again I hope you're not running that 0w oil..too thin..you get better mpg with the thinner oil..but a 30w or 40w would be better for engine life. maybe even a 50w if the high temps are high enough.

so what are your daily temps like?
would a 15w40 be good??
or a 0w40..
while I haven't check the Jeep manual I'd bet they give a range of temps for various oils..
I know my Gl1500, motorcycle does..10w30 for temps below 90F or 10w40 for temps above..but most motorcylces aren't ridden at temps below freezing

so go with a 15w40 synthetic oil or a 0w40 synthetic..check the oil analysis..anything else is a guess.

-dkenny

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

dkenny wrote:

ok..
do you really know what the 5w..30w..40w means

I not talking about the difference between additives for gas or diesel..these are different

5w--oil weight..how well it flows at a given temperature..5w is thin..pours well at low temps..0w even better...
its thinner..

40w how the oil compares to a straight weight oil..remember them 30w..50w..not 10w-50..just 50w..
or so 90w..or 140w( think differentials..) anyway this is how the oil behaves at a high temps

so if you're in the middle of winter in Co..and it -40C..I hope you don't have 40w oil in the engine..might not flow..no lubrication.. 0w would be a better choice..

but now its summer and you moved to the tropics where the low is in the 30C ranges...then again I hope you're not running that 0w oil..too thin..you get better mpg with the thinner oil..but a 30w or 40w would be better for engine life. maybe even a 50w if the high temps are high enough.

so what are your daily temps like?
would a 15w40 be good??
or a 0w40..
while I haven't check the Jeep manual I'd bet they give a range of temps for various oils..
I know my Gl1500, motorcycle does..10w30 for temps below 90F or 10w40 for temps above..but most motorcylces aren't ridden at temps below freezing

so go with a 15w40 synthetic oil or a 0w40 synthetic..check the oil analysis..anything else is a guess.

-dkenny

Thank you for your great explanation. My temperatures here are around 24°C, somedays can be really hot and go up to 30°C. It's summer at this time of the year.
I checked on a local gas station here and they have 15W-40 or 5W-40, but not 10W-40 which is what my manual in spanish recommends. It is weird because I downloaded the manual in English and it recommends 0W-40 or, in case you can't get this one in your area, 5W-40. Maybe people at Chrysler thought that all spanish speaking countries were tropical places? I am in Uruguay/Argentina and it gets cold down here in the winter, as low as 5°C on a cold day.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:43 am

Converting those C temps to F gives me 41-86F which is hardly really cold or hot; rather more like moderate. Heck even here in N. Florida the annual temp extremes range from winter 15F (-9C) to 100+F (38+C). For you 5W-40 year round would do fine same as for me.

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

papaindigo wrote:

Converting those C temps to F gives me 41-86F which is hardly really cold or hot; rather more like moderate. Heck even here in N. Florida the annual temp extremes range from winter 15F (-9C) to 100+F (38+C). For you 5W-40 year round would do fine same as for me.

Wow, I never thought Thalahasse FL was that cold. Snow in N. Florida?
We can get 0°C here just a few days in the winter and probably snow every once in 100 years...
Thank you!

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:52 am

Snow every 10 years on average, when it gets cold it tends to get dry. Now it can rain at 34F which is just wonderful. Record is 3" in 1958 and most recent was just enough on 12/23/1989, flurries since then but no real snow on the ground, that we had snow still on the ground in the shade on Christmas day.

Don't mistake North Florida climate for Miami; up here we do have a winter (yes I know not like Michigan or so)

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:31 pm

hgrimberg wrote:

Well, so the thing about sticking with the same type of oil seems to be a myth.
Are all these grades different if they are for diesel engines or for gas ones? I found a 5W-40 but it was saying it was for Motorcicles. I guess I have to only buy the ones for Turbo diesel...

The additive packages for diesel service are significantly different from gasoline additive packages, mostly because of the increased acid load and soot load for diesel service, Good oil manufacturers (the two I am most familiar with are Shell's Rotella, and Mobil's Mobile-1) provide the different additives needed to cope with this environment. You can used diesel rated oil in a gasoline engine, it's just that the additives in the diesel oil are not needed. The reverse is NOT true; synthetic gasoline oil does NOT have the additives that diesel engines need.

See this link for an explanation: http://www.motorexbih.com/API-SAE%20Eng ... ervice.pdf
You will note that specific grades are designed for specific kinds of petrodiesel; if you are running 15 PPM ULSD, and a catalytic converter, you will want a CI-4 or CJ-4 rated oil. As discussed previously, the CF rated oils do not have the additive packages designed for severe sooting such as is found with an EGR type engine, so if it were me and I were you, and all I could find was 5w-40 CF rated synthetic, I'd change my oil frequently, every 5 or 6 thousand miles at the very most.

Again, OIL CHANGES ARE CHEAP INSURANCE.

Good luck!

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

LMWatBullRun wrote:

hgrimberg wrote:

Well, so the thing about sticking with the same type of oil seems to be a myth.
Are all these grades different if they are for diesel engines or for gas ones? I found a 5W-40 but it was saying it was for Motorcicles. I guess I have to only buy the ones for Turbo diesel...

The additive packages for diesel service are significantly different from gasoline additive packages, mostly because of the increased acid load and soot load for diesel service, Good oil manufacturers (the two I am most familiar with are Shell's Rotella, and Mobil's Mobile-1) provide the different additives needed to cope with this environment. You can used diesel rated oil in a gasoline engine, it's just that the additives in the diesel oil are not needed.

See this link for an explanation: http://www.motorexbih.com/API-SAE%20Eng ... ervice.pdf
You will note that specific grades are designed for specific kinds of petrodiesel; if you are running 15 PPM ULSD, and a catalytic converter, you will want a CI-4 or CJ-4 rated oil. As discussed previously, the CF rated oils do not have the additive packages designed for severe sooting such as is found with an EGR type engine, so if it were me and I were you, and all I could find was 5w-40 CF rated synthetic, I'd change my oil frequently, every 5 or 6 thousand miles at most.

Good luck!

Well, I find 15-40W or 5-40W, but it seems you also recommend using the latter. Then I will and change oil more often.
Thank you for the explanation. It seems gasoline oils have more additives that are not needed in diesel engines. They told me synthetic olis, such as 5-40W are for both diesel and gasoline engines. They are good for both and there is no distinction.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:38 am

hgrimberg wrote:

Well, I find 15-40W or 5-40W, but it seems you also recommend using the latter. Then I will and change oil more often.
Thank you for the explanation. It seems gasoline oils have more additives that are not needed in diesel engines. They told me synthetic olis, such as 5-40W are for both diesel and gasoline engines. They are good for both and there is no distinction.

My recommendation is based upon both the manufacturer's recommendation, and my and others experience in successfully using 5w-40 diesel rated oils in diesel vehicles originally designed for 15W-40. If I were running in the Sahara, I probably would run 20W-50 diesel lube oil, but given my presence in the mid-Altantic US, 5W-40 seems the best.

In synthetic as well as regular oil the additive packages blended into the synthetic base are different for gasoline versus diesel service. If a synthetic oil does not have the appropriate API or other rating, it will not have the appropriate additive package for diesel service. There is a reason that the CJ-4 diesel rated synthetic oils cost about $10 a gallon more than the gasoline synthetics. Almost any synthetic diesel oil of the right viscosity may be used in a gasser, but the reverse is NOT true. Check the ratings of the oil you plan to use.

Good luck!

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

I wonder why the only oil they sell here specifically for diesel engines is the 15W-40. Maybe our temperatures? Maybe because we never get temps below 0•C? Anyways, I ll follow your advice and use 5W-40. Thank you.

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LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:10 pm

papaindigo wrote:

Digging around a bit the Havoline Ultra 5W-40 is a full synthetic and meets API SL/CF, which is the base Owner's Manual recommendation, but does not list meeting Chrysler MS-10725. That doesn't mean that it fails to meet the MS-10725 standard it's just not certified to do so. You might be able to find out if the other standards it does meet are the equivalent.

Bottom line is absent other choices I agree with LMWatBullRun go with the Havoline based on the 5W-40 rating and run a schedule B or shorter oil change interval (e.g. 6k miles or less) which is what I do anyway. No way can I talk myself into a 10-12k oil change interval the $s saved IMHO just don't merit the level of risk I see.

I expect you will have good luck with the Havoline, M. Grimberg. That is what I would do.

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

Ok, so today I found an official Jeep mechanic shop here in this town, where they sell the 10W-40. I was commenting with the mechanic that in my manual in Spanish, it recommends this oil 10W-40 but on the manual in English, they recommend the 0W-40 or 5W-40. The thing is that the Spanish manual is made for a country like Mexico where Jeep/Chrysler has the headquarters for Latin America, but it seems they don't care about cold countries like the ones in the very south of Southamerica where temperatures can be as cold as in the US or Canada. Anyway, the 10W-40 is the recommended oil for this vehicle in this area of the world... They say the export vehicles are different... Who knows if it is a lack of geographical/climate knowledge from the engineers at Chrysler or if they did it on purpose knowing this is a somehow different engine.
In any case, my current oil is as black as the night could be and I cant wait any longer to change it. A yellow light on the top right of the dash is now on and that means something is wrong in the engine. It could be the injectors that are dirty or the oil? I really panic when I see this yellow light in the dash. It happened before, I filled up the tank, added an injector cleaner and it was gone, now it showed up again...

What can it be?

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:59 pm

hgrimberg wrote:

Ok, so today I found an official Jeep mechanic shop here in this town, where they sell the 10W-40. I was commenting with the mechanic that in my manual in Spanish, it recommends this oil 10W-40 but on the manual in English, they recommend the 0W-40 or 5W-40. The thing is that the Spanish manual is made for a country like Mexico where Jeep/Chrysler has the headquarters for Latin America, but it seems they don't care about cold countries like the ones in the very south of Southamerica where temperatures can be as cold as in the US or Canada. Anyway, the 10W-40 is the recommended oil for this vehicle in this area of the world... They say the export vehicles are different... Who knows if it is a lack of geographical/climate knowledge from the engineers at Chrysler or if they did it on purpose knowing this is a somehow different engine.
In any case, my current oil is as black as the night could be and I cant wait any longer to change it. A yellow light on the top right of the dash is now on and that means something is wrong in the engine. It could be the injectors that are dirty or the oil? I really panic when I see this yellow light in the dash. It happened before, I filled up the tank, added an injector cleaner and it was gone, now it showed up again...

What can it be?

OK.

First off, diesel oil is always black as ink once it has run for a short time. The soot in it will stain your hands. This is NOT an indicator that the oil is bad, just an indicator that you are driving a diesel, which you already know and which is why they put those extra additives in diesel rated engine oil. If it smells good (no burned smell) then there is nothing to panic over. That said, engine wear is cumulative, and oil changes are cheap

The US CRD Liberty engines came with special treatment for ULSD, which most of the rest of the world is smart enough not to use, so yes, some of the injection components are different. The use of higher sulphur fuels requires different additives in the engine oil. While I stand by my earlier recommendation, it's your Jeep and your decision.

If your CRD is a 2005 you can do the key routine to get the codes for the Check Engine Light. If not, a friendly local auto parts place can read the code for you. If you have not already read Sam's noobie guide, I strongly recommend that you do so. There is much useful information there.

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

LMWatBullRun wrote:

hgrimberg wrote:

Ok, so today I found an official Jeep mechanic shop here in this town, where they sell the 10W-40. I was commenting with the mechanic that in my manual in Spanish, it recommends this oil 10W-40 but on the manual in English, they recommend the 0W-40 or 5W-40. The thing is that the Spanish manual is made for a country like Mexico where Jeep/Chrysler has the headquarters for Latin America, but it seems they don't care about cold countries like the ones in the very south of Southamerica where temperatures can be as cold as in the US or Canada. Anyway, the 10W-40 is the recommended oil for this vehicle in this area of the world... They say the export vehicles are different... Who knows if it is a lack of geographical/climate knowledge from the engineers at Chrysler or if they did it on purpose knowing this is a somehow different engine.
In any case, my current oil is as black as the night could be and I cant wait any longer to change it. A yellow light on the top right of the dash is now on and that means something is wrong in the engine. It could be the injectors that are dirty or the oil? I really panic when I see this yellow light in the dash. It happened before, I filled up the tank, added an injector cleaner and it was gone, now it showed up again...

What can it be?

OK.

First off, diesel oil is always black as ink once it has run for a short time. The soot in it will stain your hands. This is NOT an indicator that the oil is bad, just an indicator that you are driving a diesel, which you already know and which is why they put those extra additives in diesel rated engine oil. If it smells good (no burned smell) then there is nothing to panic over. That said, engine wear is cumulative, and oil changes are cheap

The US CRD Liberty engines came with special treatment for ULSD, which most of the rest of the world is smart enough not to use, so yes, some of the injection components are different. The use of higher sulphur fuels requires different additives in the engine oil. While I stand by my earlier recommendation, it's your Jeep and your decision.

If your CRD is a 2005 you can do the key routine to get the codes for the Check Engine Light. If not, a friendly local auto parts place can read the code for you. If you have not already read Sam's noobie guide, I strongly recommend that you do so. There is much useful information there.

What is the key routine to get the codes for the Check Engine Light?.

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

I finally found and replaced the 6 liters of Valvoline 10W-40. Unfortunatetly I didnt find the Mopar filter, just a brazilian one I found...

tregrrr · **Joined:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:37 pm **Posts:** 59

hgrimberg wrote:

I wonder why the only oil they sell here specifically for diesel engines is the 15W-40. ...

15w40 is the standard for HEAVY DUTY diesels.

Detroit Deisel, MAN, Cat, Mack.... them engines that weigh more than our entire jeeps do eat 15w40 in variable climates. Since ours is a LIGHT DUTY diesel, they get away with designing the engine to work with and optimize for lighter base stock which flows better but in the end does't hold up quite as well under the massive loads and heat soaking of a tractor or marine engine pulling >80% rated power for hours on end.

or so it was explained to me by an old fleet mechanic-> manager who forgot more about oil analysis than anyone I ever met...

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:13 am

tregrrr wrote:

hgrimberg wrote:

I wonder why the only oil they sell here specifically for diesel engines is the 15W-40. ...

15w40 is the standard for HEAVY DUTY diesels.

Detroit Deisel, MAN, Cat, Mack.... them engines that weigh more than our entire jeeps do eat 15w40 in variable climates. Since ours is a LIGHT DUTY diesel, they get away with designing the engine to work with and optimize for lighter base stock which flows better but in the end does't hold up quite as well under the massive loads and heat soaking of a tractor or marine engine pulling >80% rated power for hours on end.

or so it was explained to me by an old fleet mechanic-> manager who forgot more about oil analysis than anyone I ever met...

True as far as it goes. Another difference is that tractor-trailer truck engines are rarely shut off, either, while passenger vehicles have much more start/stop. This means that concerns over startup lubrication are much greater with the CRD. Startup wear is what killed most of the mid 80's Volvo diesels, which used a 6 cylinder VW truck engine (D24- D24T), and the reason that most of the folks who run the survivors use synthetic 5W-40 diesel oil instead of the 15W-40 recommended.

Another difference is that commercial truck engines are designed with 15W or 20W oil in mind. I do not know what tolerances VM Motori used in the construction of the 2.8, but it would not surprise me to find that they were tighter, with the use of more modern lubricants (0W, 5W) in mind.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:07 am

Recent posts here suggest that running anything other than true full synthetic and anything thicker than 5W-40 diesel rated oil may lead to catastrophic failure of the VM 2.8.

DOC

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

Well, my manual in spanish says it has to use the 10W-40...

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racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:33 am

It is not a gas engine and needs to be maintained differently. If you properly maintain the vehicle, you can expect the engine to go past the 300,000 mile mark.

If you use conventional oil your oil change intervals should be around 1500 miles.

Our engines tight tolerances do not permit a whole lot of soot to pass through the oil passages like the big diesels do. Soot kills or can kill a diesel engine and non synthetic oil cannot keep soot suspended for an extended period of time.

Motor oil cannot keep soot suspended forever and breaks down over time hence the reason why we change oil on a regular bases. We use synthetic oil because it keeps soot suspended longer usually past 3500 miles.

Soot tends to accumulate around oil passage ways clogging them over time, hard black soot deposits just sit there.

In a dirty diesel engine, oil is prevented from reaching critical engine parts because passages accumulate a black sooty build up around them and moving parts deteriorate due to metal rubbing against metal.

Moving parts and timing belts work harder to keep the engine moving. When oil is prevented from flowing around the internal moving parts seizure happens. A hard working engine can cause the timing belt to snap a tooth or jump a few teeth, not just because the belt has deteriorated over time.

The smoother the engine parts slide on clean oil the longer the engine lasts.

I know of a grandfather clock that was built in the late 1700, it has a movement that has never been rebuilt and continues to run perfectly even today because it is oiled regularly. A poorly maintained mechanical grandfather clock will stop working in no time if there is a microcosm of dirt on one of its arbors or the oil becomes dirty from age and coagulates around orifices.

I don't know why Chrysler would suggest using 10w 40 in your vehicle and it maybe due to your temporate climate, but whatever the reason is.... I wish you good luck with it.

hgrimberg · **Joined:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:03 pm **Posts:** 363

Thank you for your great explanation. Anyhow I put the 10W-40 as per my manual. In any case I think it is a Chrysler mistake thinking that all spanish speaking countries are tropical ones. Maybe they think Spain is somewhere near Mexico... very typical.

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Different possible oil grades. I can't find 5W-30 here.

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