I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:37 pm

The cylinder head arrived today along with the OEM head gasket and bolts. Took it to the local machine shop and it passed inspection, so I dropped it off at the dealer and the mechanic said that the CRD will be ready by next Friday.

Hoping it all works out.

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:34 pm

The Jeep is back and she runs and sounds smooth, test drove it this evening and overall I am happy with how it all turned out. The replacement went smooth and without a glitch.

The following items were replaced:

1. New timing belt (OEM Goodyear).
2. New timing belt tensioner.
3. New timing belt idler pulley (2).
4. New OEM water pump.
5. New metal glow plugs and relay.
6. Replacement cylinder head (used).
7. New OEM cylinder head gasket.
8, New OEM cylinder head bolts.
9. New OEM replacement gaskets (various).
10. Coolant flush and fill.

Total Parts (new and used) including tax and shipping = $1,150.00.
Total Labor including tax = $1,530.00

TOTAL $2,680.00

Note:
The following information is for those members who want the name of a qualified CRD technician in the Tri-State NY, CT, NJ area.

The work was performed at Georgetown Chrysler Jeep dealer, in Norwalk, CT. by FRED, a Chrysler certified, VM motori CRD qualified technician. The technician knew the CRD like the back of his hand and has replaced several cylinder heads and timing belts in the past (7 CRD's to date including mine). All's good and glad I have her back.

arengant · **Posted:** Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:46 pm

Congrats!

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:39 pm

Hey everyone. I'm reviving this thread as I seem to be having the exact same symptoms as racertracer.

Several weeks ago my wife got the low coolant light. The recovery tank was down about halfway so I added some coolant and went on my way. Over time it was losing more and more coolant. Twice on the highway the temp gauge pegged. When she slowed down it dropped back to normal. I determined that it was blowing coolant out the overflow so I replaced the cap but same result.

I didn't have time to do any more diagnosis so I took it to the dealer. They said there wasn't any coolant in the oil but that the thermostat was sticking so they recommended replacing it. Then after replacing the thermostat they said that it failed the "block test". So I assume I'm looking at a head gasket or (hopefully not) new head here?

The Jeep runs perfectly fine - no smoke on start-up, no rough idling on start-up or ever. I think it's just blowing the coolant out the overflow.

I'm at 95,000 and so was going to order all the stuff for my TB replacement since if they're in that far it's practically free. But now with this water pump shortage it could be awhile. I'm thinking about going the K-seal route.

Just generally fishing for opinions and to share my pain :cry:

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 pm

grywlfbg wrote:

...I didn't have time to do any more diagnosis so I took it to the dealer. They said there wasn't any coolant in the oil but that the thermostat was sticking so they recommended replacing it. Then after replacing the thermostat they said that it failed the "block test". So I assume I'm looking at a head gasket or (hopefully not) new head here?

Ask the dealer if their block test could include radiator cap and hoses.. ? Helps to avoid guessing, if possible.

Mark

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:50 pm

grywlfbg wrote:

Hey everyone. I'm reviving this thread as I seem to be having the exact same symptoms as racertracer.

Several weeks ago my wife got the low coolant light. The recovery tank was down about halfway so I added some coolant and went on my way. Over time it was losing more and more coolant. Twice on the highway the temp gauge pegged. When she slowed down it dropped back to normal. I determined that it was blowing coolant out the overflow so I replaced the cap but same result.

I didn't have time to do any more diagnosis so I took it to the dealer. They said there wasn't any coolant in the oil but that the thermostat was sticking so they recommended replacing it. Then after replacing the thermostat they said that it failed the "block test". So I assume I'm looking at a head gasket or (hopefully not) new head here?

The Jeep runs perfectly fine - no smoke on start-up, no rough idling on start-up or ever. I think it's just blowing the coolant out the overflow.

I'm at 95,000 and so was going to order all the stuff for my TB replacement since if they're in that far it's practically free. But now with this water pump shortage it could be awhile. I'm thinking about going the K-seal route.

Just generally fishing for opinions and to share my pain :cry:

Any ideas as to what caused the problem? Was it an undetectable coolant Leak? Too many hot drives and not following the cool down procedure... etc?

You definitely have a head gasket leak and you didn't need a new thermostat.

You can try the K-Seal, it won’t hurt, but shake the heck out of the bottle before you pour it in the expansion tank, don't pour it directly into the radiator.

Drive it gently for a few miles and then bring it back in your driveway to let it idle with the radiator cap off for a while.

Do this for a few days. Don't push the throttle, just drive it easy and then let it idle with the cap off.

See what happens in a week. If the problem doesn't go away then you know what you have to do.

It may work if the leak isn't too bad and you caught it early enough.

Since this happened to me, I follow the cool down procedure listed in the manual to a TEE now that I know what could happen to the cylinder head and gasket when you don't let the turbo and engine cool down properly or experience an undetectable devastating coolant leak.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:45 pm

racertracer wrote:

Any ideas as to what caused the problem? Was it an undetectable coolant Leak? Too many hot drives and not following the cool down procedure... etc?

Well, back in January, 2011 my Dad and I replaced the thermostat as it was opening too early/too far and hurting mileage. When reassembling we forgot to put a clamp on one of the hoses and during the test drive it popped off and the temp gauge pegged. We had the whole family in the car (note to self - do not take the whole family out to dinner as your post-work test drive) so I limped it the half mile back home. So that's probably what did it but I find it odd that it took ~10 months for it to start losing coolant????

Also, my wife doesn't follow any cooldown procedure but she has about a half mile sedate drive through the neighborhood so I don't think the turbo is still glowing when she pulls into the driveway.

racertracer wrote:

You can try the K-Seal, it won’t hurt, but shake the heck out of the bottle before you pour it in the expansion tank, don't pour it directly into the radiator.

I was planning to pour it into the radiator per Doc's suggestion earlier in the thread as I'm worried about it simply blowing it out the recovery tank. But I am going to mix the K-Seal with some of the coolant that I drain and shake that up to make sure it's well dispersed. I'm hoping that will keep it from clumping up.

My goal w/ the K-Seal is to just keep it together until the summer when I hit 100k, water pump should be in, and we'll have a 3rd car so we'll be able to function without the CRD.

racertracer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:15 pm

Do not pour it into the radiator...... The copper material willl settle at the bottom of the radiator right away and never flow through the system. I did that and it didn't work.

And it will not blow it out the recovery tank if you keep the radiator cap off while idleing, the exhaust gasses need to blow the pressure out of that hole.

The fluid needs to circulate and will continue to circulate even with the cap off just don't drive it but let the fluid circulate for a while.

Pour it into the highest point of the system (the expansion tank) and let it slowly flow down into the engine hopefully sealing the leak. Keep us posted.

After letting the engine idle for a while, turn it off and let it cool down overnight, then do it again in the morning.... repeat.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:42 am

I do not understand what racer is talking about. I am under the impression he tried K Seal and it did not work because his head was warped beyond what the K Seal could handle. I have had success with the product added directly to the radiator and NOT when added to the coolant recovery bottle of OTHER vehicles. I have never used it on a KJ CRD. These vehicles have a header tank which is really just the top of the radiator. So, putting it in the header tank of a CRD IS putting it IN the rad.

BTW, racer once stated that K Seal ruined his radiator. K Seal does NOT do that and I believe he may still be using his original rad.

DOC

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:04 am

Doc,

It didn't work on mine, but it did work on my buddys Disco 2, sealed it and so far so good.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:17 pm

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm, worried about it settling if I add it to the top of the radiator but I'm also worried about it simply being blown out the overflow if I add it to the header/recovery tank.

So I think I'm going to go w/ racer's plan of get it warmed up, pop the radiator cap (assuming I can do this safely), add mix of coolant and K-Seal to header tank, let it idle w/ the cap off and make sure it's circulating. Then take it through some heat/cool cycles and hope for the best. I ordered to bottles of K-Seal just in case.

Question... If the engine is hot can you see the coolant circulating through the header tank? Hard for me to wrap my head around this not being an "overflow" tank like in my other vehicles.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:09 pm

Doc,

Although my mechanic said that my radiator was clogged with the stuff and the dealer replaced the radiator because of it, I kept the old radiator and it cleaned up pretty well. It took a while to get all of the copper out but it wasn't clogged like the mechanic thought it was. It was a precaution on the part of the dealer. I purchased it and provided parts to the mechanic ... under 100 dollars from Advance Auto.

So I have a used radiator for sale for $50 plus shipping and I now realize that I failed to include it in the replacement parts list above.

grywlfbg,

you can see the coolant circulating on the top right side of the plastic expansion tank there is a small hose coming from the thermostat, it is there where you can see the coolant flow.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:28 pm

racertracer wrote:

you can see the coolant circulating on the top right side of the plastic expansion tank there is a small hose coming from the thermostat, it is there where you can see the coolant flow.

Perfect. So I'll get it warm so the t-stat opens up and, while idling, will pour the diluted K-Seal into the tank and let it get sucked through the system. Couldn't find K-Seal at my local parts stores so had to order it - will update the thread with my results.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Quick update - KSeal didn't help. Still pressurizing and blowing coolant out the overflow. Taking it in for exploratory surgery in the next day or two. At least my 100k service will be free

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:27 pm

grywlfbg wrote:

Quick update - KSeal didn't help. Still pressurizing and blowing coolant out the overflow. Taking it in for exploratory surgery in the next day or two. At least my 100k service will be free

GRYWLBG,

What's the status?

Any updates?

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:21 pm

Jeep is in the shop now. They've pulled the head and it's at the machine shop being measured. Initial report is that the head is good and it's just the gasket that failed. They're supposed to pull the water pump tomorrow (tech has been out sick last 2 days) so I can send it off for a rebuild and give me the final verdict on the head in the next day or so. So I may get off w/ just a gasket, my 100k service parts, and a bunch of labor - fingers crossed anyway.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:46 pm

Update - machine shop says the head is warped 0.005" and is toast. So I'm looking at a head after all. They tried to tell me that with the head warped "that much" that they were concerned about the block too. I told them if it had gotten hot enough to warp the block it would have seized. :roll:

Picking up the water pump tomorrow to have rebuilt through Rock Auto.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:29 am

grywlfbg wrote:

Update - machine shop says the head is warped 0.005" and is toast. So I'm looking at a head after all. They tried to tell me that with the head warped "that much" that they were concerned about the block too. I told them if it had gotten hot enough to warp the block it would have seized. :roll:

Picking up the water pump tomorrow to have rebuilt through Rock Auto.

I'm not a machinist, but 0.005" can't be machined back to flat? That's a real bummer... :dead:

Sorry

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:11 am

The cylinder head can be machined down.

VM offers 3 different size cylinder head gaskets just so the head can be repaired.

Machine the head down to the next gasket size available from VM Motori.

Look at your existing failed cylinder head gasket, on the long side there will be one, two or three holes indicating thickness. Replace the existing cylinder head gasket with the next size up.

For instance, if your failed gasket has one hole then procure the next size gasket which would be the two hole and have the cylinder head machined down to the new dimensions.

Get a second opinion on the head, find your own machine shop and have them inspect it to confirm what the previous shop found.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:30 pm

.005 is NOTHING! They are hoping to get your money for ordering a new head. I would suspect that even on this engine, the strength of the bolts could compress the gasket .005 while tightening everything.

Listen to RacerTracer, find another shop and get another opinion / machining done. You don't need a head unless the thing is wobbling on a table. (ok, almost)

I am stumped ---- Coolant Leak

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