Top End Teardown

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:43 am

Well, so then I'm all lined up, I tried starting again last night, no go... I gave it a shot of starter fluid, and it fired off. but after a few revolutions, it died off. I checked the timing again and it's still in time.

Now I'm worried that perhaps the injectors are not working. but how could this be? the engine ran (rough) before dis assembly, now it won't run at all?

This is too weird. I am not getting fuel to the combustion chamber.

Again, according to the scan tool, I'm getting a pass - no error codes.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Perhaps dumb question(s). You did prime the fuel filter head? Can you follow the fuel line from the fuel filter to the CP3 and see if that line has fuel? Are the injector wires properly hooked up in the right order (ex. if not in the right order you might be getting fuel injected on the exhaust stroke)?

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:53 pm

Yes, the fuel system is primed to the point where the mushroom is hard to push in - if not impossible. Turbobill even pushed the primer mushroom as I cranked, I cracked open a fuel line to the first injector and fuel came out. As far as wiring goes, I don't think that you can plug in the injectors incorrectly, the wire length won't let you.

on page 9-1690 of the 2006 FSM
what do they mean by this:

WARNING: IF CAMSHAFT COVER WAS REMOVED WAIT 30 MINUTES BEFORE ROTATING CRANKSHAFT.
11. Rotate the engine clockwise 2 revolutions (looking at engine from the belt side).
12. Carefully line up the crankshaft hub painted mark with the oil pump cover mark.

oil pump cover mark???? what? where's that?

maxwellp · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:07 pm

I would say that this is to give the lifters time to blead down. Funny thing in my 06 FSM this is on page 9-1689.

galatron wrote:

Yes, the fuel system is primed to the point where the mushroom is hard to push in - if not impossible. Turbobill even pushed the primer mushroom as I cranked, I cracked open a fuel line to the first injector and fuel came out. As far as wiring goes, I don't think that you can plug in the injectors incorrectly, the wire length won't let you.

on page 9-1690 of the 2006 FSM
what do they mean by this:

WARNING: IF CAMSHAFT COVER WAS REMOVED WAIT 30 MINUTES BEFORE ROTATING CRANKSHAFT.
11. Rotate the engine clockwise 2 revolutions (looking at engine from the belt side).
12. Carefully line up the crankshaft hub painted mark with the oil pump cover mark.

oil pump cover mark???? what? where's that?

maxwellp · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:11 pm

The oil pump cover mark comes from page 9-1687 (in my FSM) number "10. Paint mark the crankshaft hub and the oil pump cover(this will be useful during the timing check)"

"12. Carefully line up the crankshaft hub painted mark with the oil pump cover mark.

oil pump cover mark???? what? where's that?"

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:19 pm

ok so that black cover is the oil pump cover... I thought perhaps it was looking for another timing mark, I have a human made paint mark that "lines up" but with the ATDC tool in the flexplate the paint mark is just a hair before where it is supposed to be... so - I'm sticking with the tool.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:46 pm

Two things that firing up with Starter fluid (ether) could mean:

1) the auto-ignition temp of ether is much lower than diesel. So, if you've a compression leak - in this case either past the injectors or valves in the unlikely case they were bent/damaged - then the ether would light up at the lower compression when the diesel wouldn't. It also allows the engine to start when the glow-plugs aren't working to get the combustion chamber hot enough.

2) fuel-system either has a leak, reducing pressure, or air trapped somewhere?

Have you been able to put a voltmeter on the signal to the injectors and confirm they're getting pulses? I think they're fired with upwards of 90-110VDC... if they're like the Cummins.

FYI - Mark

galatron · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:52 pm

I'm not getting a code faulting the injectors, but I'll put the volt meter on later this evening and see what happens.
I'm pretty sure I am getting good compression cause it is pretty tough although smooth to turn the engine over.
I like the idea of having a leak or air trapped somewhere in the system. OK, so what about since the common rail was removed, and fuel probably fell out of it while it was stored, how do I pressurize the system, could I spin the fuel pump with an electric drill? and force the air out? evidently the primer mushroom is not doing the job...

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:51 pm

Do you have fuel in your return lines coming from your injectors? You may need to find a spot on the return lines that you can open to see if there is any air trapped in them. If there is air trapped, you can probably leave the line cracked and pump the fuel head priming pump to force fuel through and bleed out the air.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:11 am

Check the service manual (2005), page 14 - 46 "High Pressure Fuel Leaks".

Do you have any shops nearby that could put a scan tool (DRB-III) on it?

It would certainly help home in on the problem..

"With the scan tool connected to the vehicle, select
Engine and then select Sensor Display. Page down to
view Fuel Pressure Set Point and Actual Fuel Pressure.
Start the engine and observe the Fuel Pressure
Set Point and the Actual Fuel Pressure. If the Actual
Fuel Pressure Oscillates above and below the Fuel
Pressure Set Point in a regular cycle, inspect the fuel
system for air intrusion.
If the Actual Fuel Pressure gradually drops below
the Fuel Pressure Set Point then spikes well above
the Fuel Pressure Set Point, replace the fuel rail
pressure solenoid (Refer to 14 - FUEL SYSTEM/
FUEL INJECTION/FUEL PRESSURE SOLENOID -
REMOVAL)."

? Mark

turbobill · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:02 pm

I like the idea of putting a tube on the output of the fuel return block and pumping the mushroom. If you have air in the system you will see bubbles in what ever you catch the fuel in. Pump until no air is present. I know for sure my fuel rail was completely empty when I installed it back on the engine, but I have a lift pump with the bleed valve of the filter connected to the return line through a low pressure check valve. I ran the lift pump until i could clearly hear a solid stream of fuel hitting the tank and then some. My engine started in the first six or seven times it turned over, blowing all kinds of blue smoke for a bit then cleared up and settled right down.

If fuel is returning from the injectors without air then the fuel rail and filter are cleared, the engine should start unless there is an electrical issue with firing the injectors.

Engine ran before tear down and starts with ether - lower end is good

Engine runs with ether - engine timing is good, valves are OK

Engine won't start on Battery implies a fuel delivery problem. It is not likely that all 4 injectors would fail at the same time. If there is an electrical issue with the injectors the same holds true except for the computer and then one would think it would throw a code. Opening the fuel return block and putting the return in a bucket will let you see if there is air in the fuel rail, and bleed if if it is, and seeing if fuel is pumped when the engine is turned over, this would tell you if fuel is going through the injectors since the return fuel that fuel not injected. If there is no fuel being returned when the engine cranks then all the injectors are shut off or the fuel filter is so clogged that no fuel is passing, except when pumped.

I can come over tonight and help trouble shoot the fuel system, if you need the help. Bill

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:53 pm

Thanks Bill, I can't wait!

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:07 am

I'm going to start a new thread, we've discovered something

The injectors are not firing.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65712

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